Iran enriches uranium to 20%

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  • sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 16,205member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    That's rich from a guy whop posts links to WorldNetDaily!



    Yeah, because that's the same. I said "check out this article." I never claimed it to be scientific polling data like Sammi did. Hell, I even put a disclaimer on Fox News articles for pete's sake.



    Quote:



    Of course. Because the only ones that are allowed to have nukes are the U.S....and Russia...and India...and China...and Pakistan...and France...and the United Kingdom...and Israel.







    Correct...according to the NPT. All nations are not created equal. Iran having a nuke is totally different than one of the above having one. Your inability to see that is exactly why someone like Ron Paul should and will never be elected President.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    Correct...according to the NPT.



    Hey, I have an idea. I'm going to move into your neighborhood. I'm going to get a gun for defense purposes. Me and some of your neighbors also. Including one of your neighbors that, every once in a while decides to come and attack your home. But we're going to all get together agree with each other that no one else can have guns for defense. Only we can. How does that sound?





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    All nations are not created equal.



    Wow, the more you say, the more scared I get that there are lots of Americans and, worse, US politicians that think exactly like you.
  • sammi josammi jo Posts: 4,634member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    Yeah, because that's the same. I said "check out this article." I never claimed it to be scientific polling data like Sammi did. Hell, I even put a disclaimer on Fox News articles for pete's sake.



    The poll I quoted which prisonplanet.com linked to in its article was carried by The Congressional Connection Poll, conducted from Jan. 26 to Jan. 29 by Princeton Survey Research Associates International, surveyed 1,008 adults and had a margin of error of plus or minus 3.7 percentage points.



    This is no less "scientific" than any other poll that is quoted in the media as having a "scientific" basis. Perhaps you're confusing the message with the messenger again?



    Quote:

    Correct...according to the NPT. All nations are not created equal. Iran having a nuke is totally different than one of the above having one. Your inability to see that is exactly why someone like Ron Paul should and will never be elected President.



    What exactly is the reason that you are so scared of Iran getting a bomb? Even if they did join the "nuclear nations", why would Iran be any more a threat against the United States than Pakistan, for example?



    The most likely reason for the US getting "pissy" about Iran's possible acquisition of nuclear weapons is because Israel is freaking out. A nuclear Iran it would necessitate a modification to the Mid East land and resources agenda as outlined by the DC "neoconservative" cartel... a group which is stacked with dual US-Israeli citizens... and also the Israeli hard-right's fringe agenda of eventually creating a "Greater Israel in the Lands East of the Mediterranean".



    Then there's the issue of wars.The fighting in Iraq is over, for the US. The operations in Afghanistan are planned to end in 2013. Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria... they don't really cut it... those are not real men's wars... they're mere skirmishes or police actions. These pyschos need somewhere to hang their hats... and long term. If Iraq (whose military in 2003 was so degraded that nobody was in danger of invasion let alone the US!) took 8 years.. Iran will be a far more difficult and costly affair.. and could trigger a far wider conflict against nations with a far greater military capability than Iran.



    But... even if the warmongers want to take out Iran, do the US people want Russia and China to become enemies, on account of the possible outcomes resulting from the disproportionate influence that Israel wields in DC and formulating US foreign policy?



    On a hopeful note.. perhaps the US public is not quite as collectively stupid as they would wish. Or perhaps we're coming out of the "shocked and awed and stupefied" state that 9/11 left us in. Perhaps the public is finally waking up to the likelihood that the "endless war" program started in 2001 is one of the main factors that has led to our economic decline.
  • jazzgurujazzguru Posts: 6,435member
    The GIF that perfectly describes America's foreign policy:



  • sammi josammi jo Posts: 4,634member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post










    Don't they just!



    *Patriot Act 1

    *Patriot Act 2

    *Homeland Security and TSA

    *No Fly Lists

    *Legalization of ethnic profiling

    *TIPS (Terrorist Information and Prevention System), reminiscent of surveillance in WWI

    *Development of the Computer Assisted Passenger Pre-Screening Program (CAPPS-II).

    *Military Commission Act

    *Private individuals' Data mining by the NSA and others, "Stellar Wind"

    *Special Registration requirement

    *Suspension of Habeas Corpus

    *Abolition of Posse Comitatus

    *The evisceration of parts of the Bill of Rights, 1st and 4th Amendments specifically (Warrantless wiretapping, etc)

    *President?s Surveillance Program (PSP)

    *Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act

    *Widespread Media censorship, for example, the "Clear Channel Memorandum"

    *Preemptive war doctrine

    *Extraordinary renditions

    *Use of torture and other activities regarded as "war crimes" in civilized nations

    *The construction of large-scale detention camps nationwide, justified by a so-called "immigration crisis"

    *Widespread intolerance of dissent and protest

    *The militarization of police forces

    *Targeted assassinations

    *NDAA - authorization of unlimited detention without charge or evidence....



    and more....



    Yes, they hated our freedoms before 9/11, and they relished taking them away afterwards. Thats what power-crazed politicians thrive on.
  • sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 16,205member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    Hey, I have an idea. I'm going to move into your neighborhood. I'm going to get a gun for defense purposes. Me and some of your neighbors also. Including one of your neighbors that, every once in a while decides to come and attack your home. But we're going to all get together agree with each other that no one else can have guns for defense. Only we can. How does that sound?



    Sounds like your analogy sucks. Israel is the one surrounded by nations that want to push it into the sea.



    Quote:



    Wow, the more you say, the more scared I get that there are lots of Americans and, worse, US politicians that think exactly like you.



    Perhaps the word "created" is what has you scared here. Let me remove that and say that "not all nations are equal when it comes to having nuclear weapons." Do you still disagree?
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    Sounds like your analogy sucks. Israel is the one surrounded by nations that want to push it into the sea.



    Sounds like the point of the analogy went right over your head.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    Perhaps the word "created" is what has you scared here. Let me remove that and say that "not all nations are equal when it comes to having nuclear weapons." Do you still disagree?



    Yes.
  • sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 16,205member
    Oh, by the way: Ayatollah..."Kill all jews, annihilate Israel."



    Will you dismiss this because it's from WND? It directly quotes an Iranian website known to disseminate statements from the Ayatollah.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    Oh, by the way: Ayatollah..."Kill all jews, annihilate Israel."



    Will you dismiss this because it's from WND? It directly quotes an Iranian website known to disseminate statements from the Ayatollah.



    Let's see here. The article you linked to says that website they're linking to says:



    Quote:

    Because Israel is going to attack Iran’s nuclear facilities, Iran is justified in launching a pre-emptive, cataclysmic attack against the Jewish state, the doctrine argues.



    Quote:

    In the absence of the hidden Imam, Forghani says, “defensive jihad” could certainly take place when Islam is threatened, and Muslims must defend Islam and kill their enemies. To justify such action, Alef quotes the Shiites’ first imam, Ali, who stated “Waging war against the enemies with whom war is inevitable and there is a strong possibility that in near future they will attack Muslims is a must and the duty of Muslims.”



    Quote:

    It is the duty for all Muslims to participate in this defensive jihad, Forghani says. A fatwa by the late Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini made it clear that any political domination by infidels over Muslims authorizes Muslims to defend Islam by all means.



    Quote:

    In order to attack Iran, the article says, Israel needs the approval and assistance of America, and under the current passive climate in the United States, the opportunity must not be lost to wipe out Israel before it attacks Iran.



    Quote:

    Under this pre-emptive defensive doctrine...



    Quote:

    Forghani suggests that Iran’s Sejil missile, which is a two-stage rocket with a trajectory and speed that make it impossible to intercept, should target such Israeli facilities as: the Rafael nuclear plant, which is the main nuclear engineering center of Israel; the Eilun nuclear plant; another Israeli reactor in Nebrin; and the Dimona reactor in the nuclear research center in Neqeb, the most critical nuclear reactor in Israel because it produces 90 percent enriched uranium for Israel’s nuclear weapons.





    It sure sounds like Iran is adopting the US and Israeli doctrine of preemptive war.



    Help me here. I'm trying to navigate through the moral hypocrisy that you offer that says one nation is allowed to have nuclear energy but another is not. One nation is allowed to have defensive nuclear weapons but another is not. One nation is allowed to preemptively strike and destroy another's nuclear facilities but another is not.



    This gets back to my analogy...which might be clearer now:



    It's like I said that I can have guns for my own self-defense, but you cannot...and I can preemptively attack you if I think you're getting a gun and prevent you from getting one.



    Do you see both the hypocrisy and the authoritarianism in this?
  • tontontonton Posts: 14,063member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    It sure sounds like Iran is adopting the US and Israeli doctrine of preemptive war.



    Bingo. But we are morally superior according to him, so he thinks we have the right to have such a policy but they don't.
  • jazzgurujazzguru Posts: 6,435member




    It's okay, little girl. We're liberating you.
  • sammi josammi jo Posts: 4,634member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    Oh, by the way: Ayatollah..."Kill all jews, annihilate Israel."



    Will you dismiss this because it's from WND? It directly quotes an Iranian website known to disseminate statements from the Ayatollah.



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxSleu-mnqQ
  • jazzgurujazzguru Posts: 6,435member




    We're doomed. DOOOOOOMED!
  • brbr Posts: 8,255member
  • sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 16,205member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post






    We're doomed. DOOOOOOMED!



    Yeah, because that matters, especially when Iran is ruled by people that wish to facilitate the return of the 12th Imam, who can only come about during Armageddon. Gee, I wonder if attacking Israel and/or the U.S. might bring that about. \
  • sammi josammi jo Posts: 4,634member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    Yeah, because that matters, especially when Iran is ruled by people that wish to facilitate the return of the 12th Imam, who can only come about during Armageddon. Gee, I wonder if attacking Israel and/or the U.S. might bring that about. \



    What make you think that Iran wants to attack the US or Israel? The perpetual barrage of anti-Iranian propaganda unleashed by the heavily Israeli-influenced US corporate media, and a succession of government and defense officials?



    This is a repeat of the Iraq-WMD-fiasco-lie fest. It's amazing how people can be brought around to a certain set of "thinking" that is based on nothing but knee-jerking, caused by the repetition, ad nauseam, of material that relates to fear, or outrage, or some other negatively charged emotion.



    You have to hand it to the war-mongers: they have psychological manipulation of a mass population down to a fine art. It does, however, take a consolidated, complicit media to achieve this.. just as was the case in the Soviet Union during the Cold War, and Germany during the decade long build-up to WWII and the duration of the war itself. Our own modern propaganda machine has probably evaluated that that there is still some mileage in the WMD issue.



    The reality in all this, is the likelihood of Iran attacking the US or Israel, just for the hell of it, is virtually non-existent. Iran would get incinerated; the whole thing would be over and done with in a few hours, with Iran's major cities obliterated - leveled to smoking, glowing ruins.



    The ayatollahs may not be exactly what we westerners tend to like... but they are not wishing the destruction of their country and people.
  • tontontonton Posts: 14,063member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post


    What make you think that Iran wants to attack the US or Israel?



    Try a mix of paranoia, xenophobia, bloodthirst and blind partisanship, in various quantities, perhaps.
  • sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 16,205member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post


    What make you think that Iran wants to attack the US or Israel? The perpetual barrage of anti-Iranian propaganda unleashed by the heavily Israeli-influenced US corporate media, and a succession of government and defense officials?



    Racist.



    Quote:



    This is a repeat of the Iraq-WMD-fiasco-lie fest. It's amazing how people can be brought around to a certain set of "thinking" that is based on nothing but knee-jerking, caused by the repetition, ad nauseam, of material that relates to fear, or outrage, or some other negatively charged emotion.



    Yes, we've all been snookered. Iran poses no threat to anyone. Iran has not threatened Israel. Iran is not ruled by extremists. Iran is only responding to U.S. threats. Rinse. Repeat.



    Quote:



    You have to hand it to the war-mongers: they have psychological manipulation of a mass population down to a fine art. It does, however, take a consolidated, complicit media to achieve this.. just as was the case in the Soviet Union during the Cold War, and Germany during the decade long build-up to WWII and the duration of the war itself. Our own modern propaganda machine has probably evaluated that that there is still some mileage in the WMD issue.



    You just compared the U.S. to Soviet Russia in terms of media freedom. Wow.



    Quote:



    The reality in all this, is the likelihood of Iran attacking the US or Israel, just for the hell of it, is virtually non-existent. Iran would get incinerated; the whole thing would be over and done with in a few hours, with Iran's major cities obliterated - leveled to smoking, glowing ruins.



    The ayatollahs may not be exactly what we westerners tend to like... but they are not wishing the destruction of their country and people.



    Poor sammi, you just don't understand. There are powerful forces in Iran who WANT to bring on Armageddon. This is why Iran cannot be allowed to have a nuclear weapon. This is why Iran's threats cannot be ignored. However, it is also why military action is risky and should be a last resort. It's dangerous, but it might be the only way to keep Iran from getting the tools its extremist government needs to reach their goal.
  • jazzgurujazzguru Posts: 6,435member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    Poor sammi, you just don't understand. There are powerful forces in Iran who WANT to bring on Armageddon. This is why Iran cannot be allowed to have a nuclear weapon. This is why Iran's threats cannot be ignored. However, it is also why military action is risky and should be a last resort. It's dangerous, but it might be the only way to keep Iran from getting the tools its extremist government needs to reach their goal.







    "Iran wants to bring on Armageddon, and we'll go to war with them before we let that happen."
  • sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 16,205member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post






    "Iran wants to bring on Armageddon, and we'll go to war with them before we let that happen."



    Yes, exactly. We will take military action before they acquire the tools bring about Armageddon. A war with Iran now will not be like one 2 years from now. Not that I'm arguing for that, but it may come to it at some point before their missile and nuclear technology make a war with them unthinkable.
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