Strong sales of iPhone 4S a precursor to 'monster' launch of redesigned 'iPhone 5'

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  • Reply 81 of 241
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


    The 3GS is going to around in 2-4 years. It is now the cheap model, not the year before last years model. They may change the chip in future versions of this cheap model, and minor design changes but it is now the cheap model.



    What do you mean by "around in 2-4 years"? Surely people will still be using them but I am certain they will drop the 3GS from their lineup this year with the iPhone 4 8GB free on contract, iPhone 4S 8GB (maybe16GB as new minimum) $99 on contract, and generation 6 iPhone $199, $299, and $399 for the three different capacities.



    This also allows for an interesting change in the direct lineup where there will be no 480x320 displays. That might make it a good time to move devs from supporting that 2009 display to supporting that same resolution at a larger size (perhaps even supporting two number models at different sizes), which will be smooth, all things considered.



    The one thing I wonder about the iPhone 4 in late 2012 free on contract is if they will keep the IPS panel. They don't use an IPS panel on the iPod Touch despite it being Retina Display so they are not above shaving some costs for those buying old kit.
  • Reply 82 of 241
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    What do you mean by "around in 2-4 years"? Surely people will still be using them but I am certain they will drop the 3GS from their lineup this year with the iPhone 4 8GB free on contract, iPhone 4S 8GB (maybe16GB as new minimum) $99 on contract, and generation 6 iPhone $199, $299, and $399 for the three different capacities.



    I am pretty sure that you believed they would drop the 3GS before this year with the release of the iPhone 4S. As did many others. It seems impossible to explain to people that the more models there are across price points the better. Faced with a device which is out-selling all Android competitors you want them to drop it?



    Quote:

    This also allows for an interesting change in the direct lineup where there will be no 480x320 displays. That might make it a good time to move devs from supporting that 2009 display to supporting that same resolution at a larger size (perhaps even supporting two number models at different sizes), which will be smooth, all things considered.



    That same resolution at a larger size makes no sense. Anyway there is no way that Apple will end the 480x320 model. When the 5 ( or whatever comes out) they may rename it, and even update the chip set. But they will have an entry level model with 480x320 selling for buttons (off contract) to entice people into the ecosystem.



    The design will remain the same, at least for some time. This is the way Apple does their other line-ups - Mac Book, Mac Book Pro, Mac Book Air etc.



    Different models.
  • Reply 83 of 241
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


    It seems impossible to explain to people that the more models there are across price points the better.



    You say that despite Apple's history of operating like a boutique shop with a limited selection that rarely ever exceeds groups of three.



    They have the MacBook Air and MacBook Pro notebooks. That's two! They don't even have a MacBook line anymore though i think they may bring that back.



    They have the iMac, Mac mini, and Mac Pro desktop lines, and the Mac Pro is really a quasi contender here since so clearly a workstation machine. You look at their specific model categories and you have 11" and 13" MBAs; 13", 15" and 17" MBPs; 21" and 27" iMacs. Within those you have two or three options for the CPU. The only get over 4 options when you look at having a HDD or SSD of various sizes.



    Apple's philosophy is to keep it simple whenever possible to maximize profit. That's why I think an iPhone 4 with a TN Retina Panel is more likely for 2013 than iPhone 3GS selling on their homepage through 2015.



    Quote:

    Faced with a device which is out-selling all Android competitors you want them to drop it?



    The iPhone 3GS out-selling all Android competitors is news to me. Source?
  • Reply 84 of 241
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


    That same resolution at a larger size makes no sense. Anyway there is no way that Apple will end the 480x320 model.



    「/クゥオテ」Why、ウェンテェyc案じゅst.。。



    Oh, whoops?



    Why in the world would they do that when they can just drop the iPhone 4 to $0 on contract? Then developers would't have to worry about pre-Retina compatibility?
  • Reply 85 of 241
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    What do you mean by "around in 2-4 years"? Surely people will still be using them but I am certain they will drop the 3GS from their lineup this year with the iPhone 4 8GB free on contract, iPhone 4S 8GB (maybe16GB as new minimum) $99 on contract, and generation 6 iPhone $199, $299, and $399 for the three different capacities.



    Let's say that they drop the iPhone 4 8 GB to $0.00 on contract. To keep things in perspective, they'd have to PAY users to take a 3GS on contract.



    Hmmm. Might make an interesting scenario.
  • Reply 86 of 241
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,675member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    They don't even have a MacBook line anymore though i think they may bring that back.



    You think so? I think Apple didn't want 'plasticy' laptops anymore, possibly now kill the ODD entirely this year (expect for the MP). Steve made it quite clear why they don't do market research; "No, because customers don't know what they want until we've shown them".



    They can screw up, like they did with the removal of FW on the MacBook*. But to bring a discontinued product back? Hmm, I don't think so.



    *we did get this 1600+ thread because of that.
  • Reply 87 of 241
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    The iPhone 3GS out-selling all Android competitors is news to me. Source?



    http://gigaom.com/2012/01/09/iphone-...ndroid-in-u-s/

    Quote:

    NPD said that Apple held the top three spots in device sales, with the iPhone 4S, iPhone 4 and iPhone 3GS leading the way, ahead of the Samsung Galaxy S II 4G, the Samsung Galaxy S and the HTC Inspire 4G.



  • Reply 88 of 241
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,675member
    Quote:



    Yes, well, duh, Sol was referring to the poster stating that the 3GS alone outsold all Android devices, which of course is not true.
  • Reply 89 of 241
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Yes, yes, redesign, yes, yes, 5" screen. Yes, yes, LTE. Yes, yes, wider, thinner, and with an aluminum back; let's get this all out of the way.



  • Reply 90 of 241
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,675member
    Welp, at least no rounded corners on those icons
  • Reply 91 of 241
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post


    You think so? I think Apple didn't want 'plasticy' laptops anymore, possibly now kill the ODD entirely this year (expect for the MP). Steve made it quite clear why they don't do market research; "No, because customers don't know what they want until we've shown them".



    They can screw up, like they did with the removal of FW on the MacBook*. But to bring a discontinued product back? Hmm, I don't think so.



    *we did get this 1600+ thread because of that.



    I should be more clear. I don't think they will bring back the plastic bodies, but I think there is a market for Apple having multiple sized cheaper metal notebooks that aren't the Air or the Pro.



    I think the ODD is going way in the next Pro, but perhaps there will still be a nice big gap for the the ODD to remain in what is today a fairly fat and chunky aluminium chassis to later be called MacBook. (Note: just an example, not something I feel strongly about)



    It wouldn't be unprecedented for Apple to do such a thing. Remember the 13" aluminium MacBook they changed to MacBook Pro in the next revision.
  • Reply 92 of 241
    jonamacjonamac Posts: 388member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    PS: You should retract your personal attack, Jonamac, or at least refer to the post, not the poster.



    I'd rather not to be honest. To look at Island Hermit's list, crystal clear as it is, and then claim that it doesn't support his point it nothing short of idiotic. I don't mean that as a cruel insult, it's simply an inevitable observation.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


    V. 6 of the iPhone will be super thin and light and be called, iPhone Air... to be followed by the iPod Air and the iMac Air.



    I think that's a very good shout. I think Apple will be keen to get away from using numbers sooner or later. They simply call their computers 'iMac', 'MacBook Pro' etc. They are referred to as entities rather than date-specific models. That ended with the move to the Intel architecture (no more iMac G4, G5 etc.). I don't think Apple can do that with phones because they are by the nature of the beast upgraded every 2 years and this year's flagship is next year's budget model. People need to be able to differentiate at a glance, at least for now.



    iPhone Air is a great brand name, but it doesn't solve the problem long-term. They may well use that in the summer but at some point they'll want to solve the problem. With Macs we have to say 'mid 2010 Macbook Pro'. It's not wonderful but it doesn't matter because you can only ever buy the latest model. The only time I have to refer to my model of MacBook Pro is when I require technical assistance. Phones, which are sold in a maelstrom of marketing and jargon, need a snappy suffix.



    Maybe one day when iOS isn't being advanced at such a rapid rate and the previous two models can run the latest version several years into their life-cycles Apple will do away with the suffix and just call the product like 'iPhone'. You choose what spec you want, but they're all 'iPhone'. Just like 'iMac'.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    My Phil Schiller reaction image aside, let's go over my reasoning again.



    "iPhone 5". What about the next iPhone would make ANYONE ON THE PLANET think it's going to be "5"?



    Is it the 5th model? No, it's the 6th model.

    Will it have an A5 chip? No, it will have an A6 chip.

    Will it run iOS 5? No, it will run iOS 6.

    Will it have 5G telephony? No, it will have 4G telephony.



    So let's see, that's three points for "iPhone 6" and zero points for "iPhone 5".



    Precisely
  • Reply 93 of 241
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post


    Yes, well, duh, Sol was referring to the poster stating that the 3GS alone outsold all Android devices, which of course is not true.



    But that link says that the 3GS outsold ANY individual Android device in the 4th quarter.



    I don't recall anyone saying that it outsold all Android devices together. That would be an insane claim. asdasd said:

    Quote:

    Faced with a device which is out-selling all Android competitors you want them to drop it?



    I guess you could interpret that either way. In any event, the facts are that the top 3 selling phones in the last quarter were all iPhones so asdasd was either right or wrong, depending on which interpretation he meant.
  • Reply 94 of 241
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,675member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    But that link says that the 3GS outsold ANY individual Android device in the 4th quarter.



    I don't recall anyone saying that it outsold all Android devices together. That would be an insane claim. asdasd said:





    I guess you could interpret that either way. In any event, the facts are that the top 3 selling phones in the last quarter were all iPhones so asdasd was either right or wrong, depending on which interpretation he meant.



    Well, that certainly is true!



    All things considered, it's an amazing thing for one company to hold the first, second and third position.
  • Reply 95 of 241
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Let's say that they drop the iPhone 4 8 GB to $0.00 on contract. To keep things in perspective, they'd have to PAY users to take a 3GS on contract.



    Hmmm. Might make an interesting scenario.



    yeah, they'll pay people with a cheaper contract with the same data plan. Like, you know, outside the US.
  • Reply 96 of 241
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    Quote:

    Faced with a device which is out-selling all Android competitors you want them to drop it?



    Of course I meant it outsold each individual Android devices. That would be the sane interpretation even if it wasn't phrased as clear as it could have been.
  • Reply 97 of 241
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    My Phil Schiller reaction image aside, let's go over my reasoning again.



    "iPhone 5". What about the next iPhone would make ANYONE ON THE PLANET think it's going to be "5"?



    Is it the 5th model? No, it's the 6th model.

    Will it have an A5 chip? No, it will have an A6 chip.

    Will it run iOS 5? No, it will run iOS 6.

    Will it have 5G telephony? No, it will have 4G telephony.



    So let's see, that's three points for "iPhone 6" and zero points for "iPhone 5".



    While I agree it shouldn't be iPhone5, I'm not convinced it's gonna be iPhone6. You'll just get dummies asking "what happened to the iPhone5?" I think Apple kinda painted themselves into a corner here. They already fixed the naming problem caused by the oddly named 2nd Gen "3G" by calling the 3rd Gen "3GS". So the name and the phone were sync'ed for the 4th. Then they release the "4S". Whatever rationale Apple marketing had for "4S", will probably apply to naming the 6th gen the "5", the 7th gen "5S", the 8th "6", etc.



    Or, they'll do what they did with MacOS. The next phone will be iPhone V.0 "Dingo", then iPhone V.1 "Coyote", iPhone V.2 "Timberwolf", etc. ad nauseum.



    Hmm... I kinda like that idea. Hey Apple, I'll license this trademark to you for an advance of every new iPhone release.
  • Reply 98 of 241
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,675member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    I should be more clear. I don't think they will bring back the plastic bodies, but I think there is a market for Apple having multiple sized cheaper metal notebooks that aren't the Air or the Pro.



    I think the ODD is going way in the next Pro, but perhaps there will still be a nice big gap for the the ODD to remain in what is today a fairly fat and chunky aluminium chassis to later be called MacBook. (Note: just an example, not something I feel strongly about)



    It wouldn't be unprecedented for Apple to do such a thing. Remember the 13" aluminium MacBook they changed to MacBook Pro in the next revision.



    Ah, ok, thanks.



    Personally, I would think that Apple gains more from lowering the price of the air even further. They started at what, 1799? Now look, its 999 and with the assumption of 1.2M sold 'over the holiday buying season', they could 'make it up in volume' if they were to lower the price even further. The competition is already having a hard time offering their versions of unibody laptops, similar shaped and such at this price point. Many people still think Macs are more expensive. Perhaps Apple is able to make it even more clear, simply on price (right now Macs are simply cheaper because they last longer).



    Me, I am thinking about buying an Air, even though I have zero need for it, already have an iPhone & iPad, I never work while commuting, always have internet available every time I visit someone and don't even like gloss! Now that's what I call magical! TM
  • Reply 99 of 241
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    Quote:



    Why in the world would they do that when they can just drop the iPhone 4 to $0 on contract? Then developers would't have to worry about pre-Retina compatibility?



    Before the iPhone 4S came out, people, probably you , were making the same argument. Except then it was



    Why in the world would they do that [ keep the iPhone 3GS] when they can just drop the iPhone 4 to $99 on contract?



    Developers have long solved the retina "problem". Or rather designers have. There is little coding to do.



    Here is why you would keep the 3GS.



    The sum total of sales of the



    1) iPhone 4S

    2) iPhone 4

    3) iPhone 3Gs



    exceed the sum total sales of the



    1) iPhone 4S

    2) iPhone 4





    and similarly the sales of the



    1) iPhone 5 ( or - standard disclaimer - whatever it is called)

    2) iPhone 4S

    3)iPhone 4

    4) iPhone 3Gs



    will exceed the sales of the



    1) iPhone 5

    2) iPhone 4S

    3) iPhone 4



    They didnt do this with the 3G because it was crap. the 3GS is about as speedy in normal use as the iPhone 4.I dont notice the iPhone 4S being much speedier, but benchmarks suggest it is.



    In fact there are really three models here - as APple designates models based on the look and feel, and design. The 3 model, the 4 Model and the 5 model.



    One with no retina, one with a retina, one with a New Design - and possibly a bigger screen.



    The non-retina display, and it's form factor ( which is still awesome), isnt going away. It will be the cheap model for contractless phones. And it isnt relatively , that cheap now. It sells at £100 more than newer low level Anrdroid models. Of course it is a better machine.



    Lowering the off contract price to $250 would see it run out the door. In fact I expect the 3GS to over take the sales of the 4 anyway, this year.
  • Reply 100 of 241
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jonamac View Post


    I'd rather not to be honest. To look at Island Hermit's list, crystal clear as it is, and then claim that it doesn't support his point it nothing short of idiotic. I don't mean that as a cruel insult, it's simply an inevitable observation.



    Actually, that was Mercury52's list.
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