ARM CEO not impressed by Intel's 'Medfield' chips for smartphones, tablets

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Comments

  • bluefish86bluefish86 Posts: 115member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBell View Post


    Sure there is. Cost. Intel will try to buy its way in by undercutting ARM in terms of cost. Intel hopes this will by it time to come up with a real contender (this is the approach Intel took when AMD was eating its lunch in terms of performance).



    Well from what I'm reading, at launch the Medfield will cost roughly double the equivalent ARM processor. That's a huge loss to swallow, especially since Intel is still a year behind. It sounds like it won't be until 2014 when their new processes could allow them to really surpass ARM performance (and even that's assuming 1. the new process is actually put in place on time and 2. ARM makes no big performance gains in the meantime).
  • mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 6,899member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post


    at some point in the near future the supply of people willing to pay $2000 for a 15" laptop will run out and ARM CPU's are branching out. the A15 will be a desktop class CPU



    if you look at what 90% or more people do with a computer an A15 ARM based on will be more than enough. for the other 10% that code, do photoshop and play out their serial killer fantasies in games there will be intel



    You have this vision that the iPad is going to decline in cost as it's performance and features escalate. The iPad 3 will be no less expensive than it already is and when you add the additional features to the iPad you surpass the baseline cost of the mac mini.



    People will continue to buy $2k laptops as they continue to evolve in capabilities as well.



    Those current displays will double and quadruple in resolution and get thinner. The batteries will double and triple in performance. The base line GB size will double and quadruple for standard models.



    iPads and iPhones/iPods are mass mobile consumption devices, mobile mcca devices for the enterprise where all information is centrally located on a network of replicated servers. The laptop will continue just like the desktop to be the area of mass productivity for reports, number crunching, graphics, engineering, etc.



    The iPad fills the void that the laptop nor the desktop could fulfill. It doesn't replace them.
  • crustyjustycrustyjusty Posts: 21member
    Unless I'm mistaken, aren't Intel's chips significantly more expensive than using ARM's license and adding modifications like Apple does? Whether or not it can achieve the same performance profile seems a bit beside the point, unless it can do so at a really low price.
  • mmason617mmason617 Posts: 2member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alireza View Post


    seriously??? apple will never do something like that and u know why? because they already have the iPad that runs the IOS apps and it is almost the same size as the 11 inch AIR. and why would they add at least 10 new products to their MAC lineup to just run iPad apps?

    think more before u write.



    I can not really judge which of you are more wrong...because none of us know the future of Apple's products....however I think the person did have a point though...if Microsoft is putting their OS on ARM processors, then Apple will probably do the same following after Microsoft and implementing it "better". iOS is a mini OS X and the platforms look like they are converging to one...only time will tell...It's the battle of the ecosystems.
  • bluefish86bluefish86 Posts: 115member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post


    Except the 2010 Air was low performance with medium battery life. People weren't complaining for more battery life in those laptops as much as more power in the Core i5/i7 line of chips. It's a nice idea, but to get the same performance in a much lower power envelope, I think it's going to be several years at least. And while it makes for a nice prototype, it's horrible business sense as I doubt think there's enough power in an ARM chip to go down the Rosetta path and emulate x86 on ARM. Microsoft didn't do that for a reason, the performance would be horrible.



    Oh I agree it'll take time, but it avoids the whole x86 emulation thing. That's why it could actually work. I also don't see an issue with performance, it obviously would be targeting those who want a cheaper price rather than more horsepower. I know Apple never aims for the bottom, but with the price of laptops these days Apple needs to do better than $999, for 11" at that. I can go to Best Buy and buy a 15" Windows laptop for $350. Maybe something like an 11" Medfield for $699 and a 13" Medfield for $999? They'd still be charging double the price of a low-end PC.



    Edit: Apple really has a gap at their low end, ever since cutting the white MacBook. You used to be able to get a $999 laptop with a 13" display, decent processor and decent storage. Now you need to either pay an extra $250 to go Pro and get a 13" display, or you're stuck with an 11" display, slower processor and small storage. I could swallow that if I was paying less, but not for $1k.
  • al_bundyal_bundy Posts: 1,525member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


    You have this vision that the iPad is going to decline in cost as it's performance and features escalate. The iPad 3 will be no less expensive than it already is and when you add the additional features to the iPad you surpass the baseline cost of the mac mini.



    People will continue to buy $2k laptops as they continue to evolve in capabilities as well.



    Those current displays will double and quadruple in resolution and get thinner. The batteries will double and triple in performance. The base line GB size will double and quadruple for standard models.



    iPads and iPhones/iPods are mass mobile consumption devices, mobile mcca devices for the enterprise where all information is centrally located on a network of replicated servers. The laptop will continue just like the desktop to be the area of mass productivity for reports, number crunching, graphics, engineering, etc.



    The iPad fills the void that the laptop nor the desktop could fulfill. It doesn't replace them.





    how do you get photos on an ipad? computer

    how do you get your own music on an ipad? computer

    how about decent photo editing? computer

    where do you store 50GB of personal music? computer

    where do you store the master copies of your photos in a non compressed bastardized format? computer

    how do you get data onto an ipad? computer

    how many people are dumping their computers for tablets? almost zero



    the $500 tablet market is almost tapped out as well, the $200 - $300 market is where it's at next. even apple has a 3-5 year lag period from releasing a high end product to going low end. that's why amazon chose the $199 price level. they got there before apple planned to



    even the mac app store has a lot of apps that are nothing more than ios recompiles at 3 times the price. right now the $500 price point is a sweet spot for laptops with 15" screens. An ARM based Macbook with a super iOS at $500 will kill dell and hp
  • gqbgqb Posts: 1,934member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBell View Post


    Sure there is. Cost. Intel will try to buy its way in by undercutting ARM in terms of cost. Intel hopes this will by it time to come up with a real contender (this is the approach Intel took when AMD was eating its lunch in terms of performance).



    I don't think price controls decisions as much at this point in the technology ramp-up.

    Once performance/power consumption/features have stabilized, in a few years, then device makers will be willing to offer performance/price trade-offs. But not yet.
  • zoolookzoolook Posts: 657member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by r00fus View Post


    You forget the software players, notably, Microsoft - who's quite comfortable with Intel. Of course, Microsoft has also spent 10+ years trying to get into the mobile space.



    This of course, dovetails very tightly with Windows 8 tablets and fending off Apple's recent incursion into the PC space with the iPad.



    Actually I am very much thinking of the software. Microsoft, whether they like it or not, are now relatively small players in this market, and Windows8 that you mention is going to be the first desktop version of Windows to be compiled for RISC (specifically ARM).



    Android, RIM, iOS and the rapidly shrinking Symbian/Linux derivatives all compile on ARM, and there are optimized variations of ARM references for each of these. Intel is unlikely to offer custom hardware or optimized designs for anyone (except maybe MS, but I doubt that now).
  • sleepy3sleepy3 Posts: 244member
    Intel have an amazing R&D facility. I don't think it is inconceivable that we will have i7 2600 type performance in mobile devices in another three years maybe. And lets not forget, nothing is stopping Apple from using these chips as well, just like they did on the desktop.



    More interesting is when battery technology evolves to the point making it feasable to have discrete powerful GPU's in phones. It may even be possible to configure your phone online like you will with a PC. You want SLI Nvidia GPU's and a six core Extreme edition phone? No problem. Add to that the current ability of mobile devices to allow console controllers AND output HDMI 1080P video on a TV and you may just have a pocketable PS4 in your hands.



    You can pay for just as much phone/tablet as you want to. from a basic 500 ipad4 to a suped, up speced up three GPU SLI ipad4 "extreme edition" for 1500. The performance would be mind boggling.



    And trust me......if they make it, people WILL buy it. There is a market for people who want super powerful mobile devices.
  • cvaldes1831cvaldes1831 Posts: 1,832member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post


    how do you get photos on an ipad? computer

    how do you get your own music on an ipad? computer

    how about decent photo editing? computer

    where do you store 50GB of personal music? computer

    where do you store the master copies of your photos in a non compressed bastardized format? computer

    how do you get data onto an ipad? computer

    how many people are dumping their computers for tablets? almost zero



    You know that you can do much of this stuff via iCloud, iTunes Store, iTunes Match, Dropbox, and other cloud services?



    The iPad is not replacing a household's sole computer. However, it is probably taking precedence over a second, third, or fourth PC.
  • zoolookzoolook Posts: 657member
    how do you get photos on an ipad? Wireless... iPhone, to cloud to iPad

    how do you get your own music on an ipad? Download from iTunes or website. MP3s work natively on iPad from a browser

    how about decent photo editing? computer

    where do you store 50GB of personal music? iPad or cloud

    where do you store the master copies of your photos in a non compressed bastardized format? computer - how many people really use RAW?

    how do you get data onto an ipad? computer

    how many people are dumping their computers for tablets? almost zero



    I'll give you 3/9 for that really.
  • al_bundyal_bundy Posts: 1,525member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post




    The iPad is not replacing a household's sole computer. However, it is probably taking precedence over a second, third, or fourth PC.





    and that's the point. the vast majority of computers are still Wintel. only reason i bought a macbook was my wife wanted one. otherwise 2 iphones and an ipad 2 will work perfectly on a cheap laptop to hold my data.



    most of those cheap laptop owners are not going to pay $2000 for a 15" MBP.



    at some point in the near future a 15" ARM laptop with a 1TB or so hard drive at a $500 price point will be possible with 30% margins and Apple will be there. compared to the MBP the MBA screen already looks like crap and those buyers don't seem to care so it's not like apple has to have a nice screen for those
  • al_bundyal_bundy Posts: 1,525member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zoolook View Post


    how do you get photos on an ipad? Wireless... iPhone, to cloud to iPad

    how do you get your own music on an ipad? Download from iTunes or website. MP3s work natively on iPad from a browser

    how about decent photo editing? computer

    where do you store 50GB of personal music? iPad or cloud

    where do you store the master copies of your photos in a non compressed bastardized format? computer - how many people really use RAW?

    how do you get data onto an ipad? computer

    how many people are dumping their computers for tablets? almost zero



    I'll give you 3/9 for that really.



    iphone to ipad via icloud compresses the photos, is only 30 days and anything else costs money. i have 80GB or so of photos all in jpg



    as smartphone penetration increases most people are on capped data plans. streaming your entire collection is not feasible. and for those of us in NYC there is this tunnel problem for the subway. and with no computer how do you put music in icloud that you bought on amazon? or somewhere else?
  • edemerzeledemerzel Posts: 16member
    Just getting back to Intel vs ARM. I for one am glad to see Intel getting in the game. Competition is good for everyone. If this makes Intel get off their butt and put out competitive products I'm all for it and only good can come out of a Intel vs ARM trying to one up each other. ARM may be in the lead, but Intel certainly has the cash to make this an interesting match.
  • mr. memr. me Posts: 3,219member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post


    ...

    how many people are dumping their computers for tablets? almost zero



    ...



    Do you have any data to support this contention? We know that the Wintel OEMs are seeing their sales lag because customers are buying tablets rather than laptops and desktops.
  • sleepy3sleepy3 Posts: 244member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post


    Do you have any data to support this contention? We know that the Wintel OEMs are seeing their sales lag because customers are buying tablets rather than laptops and desktops.



    I agree to an extent. Honestly if you are old and don't plan to do anything more than e-mail, the odd youtube clip and play solitare, a PC isn't needed.



    However, as soon as you get into wantingh to do any photo editing, movie editing, excel, writing long papers.....a tablet isn't up to it. Not to mention that I just cant stand the small screen. I use a 23" monitor which i'm actually thinking about upgrading. I can use two word documents side by side, can see much more of the excel spreadsheet, etc. Oh, and constant pinch to zoom on the web cause even at ten inches i still find text too straining to read without zooming.



    If someone came out with a 14 inch tablet i just might bite though.....

    Like it or not, you have to hand it to android OEM's. They make stuff for a market that apple constantly tells them doesn't exist. Who would have thought a phone with a huge 4.3, or as is teh trend now, 4.5 and larger, screen would have such a market to sell in the millions? Can't wait for someone to say "screw it, 14 inch tablet.....DO IT"
  • suddenly newtonsuddenly newton Posts: 13,115member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    These would be of most use to Microsoft, as Windows 8 on the tablet could run all past Windows apps.



    Windows 8 + crippled x86 chips will not change Microsoft's tablet fortunes. Windows tablets equipped with x86 chips have existed since the early 1990s. The most recent attempts were the UMPC version. They can run all past Windows apps. You can buy a Samsung tablet with a Core i5 and Windows 7 that will run ancient apps. Microsoft thinks a new UI and new chip would turn a Windows laptop into an iPad? Sounds like the vision of a man named Steve "Tablets are PCs too" Ballmer.
  • lfmorrisonlfmorrison Posts: 697member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zoolook View Post


    ... Windows8 that you mention is going to be the first desktop version of Windows to be compiled for RISC (specifically ARM).



    In addition to x86, the initial releases of Windows NT (a desktop OS) were compiled for MIPS and DEC Alpha (both RISC designs).



    Windows NT 3.51 and Windows NT 4.0 saw the period with the largest simultaneously supported CPU base (4 architectures), which included 3 RISC designs: Alpha, MIPS, and PowerPC. From the very beginning, the Windows NT kernel was designed to be cross-platform compatible.
  • sagan_studentsagan_student Posts: 80member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post


    how do you get photos on an ipad? computer

    how do you get your own music on an ipad? computer

    how about decent photo editing? computer

    where do you store 50GB of personal music? computer

    where do you store the master copies of your photos in a non compressed bastardized format? computer

    how do you get data onto an ipad? computer

    how many people are dumping their computers for tablets? almost zero



    While I agree that the computer is 'still' where most stuff happens, I think it's more appropriate to begin readjusting our use of terminology. i.e.;



    how do you get photos on an ipad? access personal server or iCloud

    how do you get your own music on an ipad? personal server or iCloud (via iTunes match)

    how about decent photo editing? computer for professional use, majority - red eye and enhance is usually sufficient enough.

    where do you store 50GB of personal music? server or none at all via iTunes match

    where do you store the master copies of your photos in a non compressed bastardized format? server

    how do you get data onto an ipad? personal server or iCloud

    how many people are dumping (converting) their computers for (into) servers and using portable devices to access home server? one for sure , and predicting many to most in the next 5 - 10 years.



    Cheers.
  • al_bundyal_bundy Posts: 1,525member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post


    Do you have any data to support this contention? We know that the Wintel OEMs are seeing their sales lag because customers are buying tablets rather than laptops and desktops.



    reason people are buying tablets is because even the cheap $300 clearance computers are more than enough for 90% of the people. tablets give them something laptops can't, mobility.



    for more people the future is a hybrid client server set up. a laptop at home to hold all your photos and other data. iphone/ipad for 90% of your computing. periodically you will connect your idevice to your laptop to transfer data back and forth and do some things the idevice can't like decent photo editing. iphones are worse than iphoto at editing photos
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