new iMacs?

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
Looking forward to new Sandy bridge iMacs with the Os on an ssd drive and secondary drive for programs. I read that this could happen in March, but doesn't Apple usually only do this once a year...which would probably mean mean May.
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Comments

  • hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 11,865member, moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by orangeapple View Post


    Looking forward to new Sandy bridge iMacs with the Os on an ssd drive and secondary drive for programs. I read that this could happen in March, but doesn't Apple usually only do this once a year...which would probably mean mean May.



    I too am waiting for the Ivy Bridge iMacs but the hardware really isn't due until around the April time frame. I'd rather see the DVD drive get jettisoned and those funds applied to decent (read minimum 64GB of NAND SSD) SSD onboard along to the 1TB hard drive.
  • wizard69wizard69 Posts: 11,320member
    And yes it will be worth the wait on many models.



    Now I say many models because the major benefit of Ivy Bridge is the vastly improved GPU! While Ivy Bridge will enhance iMac it isn't as big a win compared to the models with integrated GPUs like the entry level Mini.



    The Ivy Bridge release is very close, don't buy until Apple debuts it's Ivy Broidge solution.
  • lemon bon bon.lemon bon bon. Posts: 2,073member
    The iMac.



    Heir apparent to the 'workstation' title held by the Mac 'Pro.'



    Is Ivy going to give us that much more cpu oomph?



    Will Apple put in a gpu option that can out perform the current high end one which is pretty impressive in something 2 inches thick?



    What about the retina screen? Can we seriously have something like that in a Mac? (Maybe not outside of an iPad 3 this soon...)



    Will we have even bigger screen sizes?



    Will it be more of the 'same?'



    Evolution? Revolution?



    Any chance of a 6 core? Why would I buy the ivy over the previous (re: current) generation?



    I'd like the 27 inch top end gpu iMac as is. Can't justify it right now.



    Maybe in another year or so...when Intel are putting out iMac relevant 6 or 8 core chips... And gpus have chugged along a bit further...and screen density picks up...



    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • wizard69wizard69 Posts: 11,320member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post


    The iMac.



    Heir apparent to the 'workstation' title held by the Mac 'Pro.'



    Not a chance! The Pro serves an entirely different market.

    Quote:

    Is Ivy going to give us that much more cpu oomph?



    Nope, it is pretty clear the vast majority of the improvements have gone into the GPU. That doesn't mean the CPU won't be better, just that we are talking low percentages compared to the GPU.



    Of course Apple currently has rather pathetic GPU drivers so we might not see the payoff that Ivy Bridge will bring to other platforms.

    Quote:

    Will Apple put in a gpu option that can out perform the current high end one which is pretty impressive in something 2 inches thick?



    GPUs continue to go through dramatic increases in performance. The problem is if Apple intros retina displays much of that improvement will go to driving more pixels.

    Quote:

    What about the retina screen? Can we seriously have something like that in a Mac? (Maybe not outside of an iPad 3 this soon...)



    Will we have even bigger screen sizes?



    Will it be more of the 'same?'



    Evolution? Revolution?



    Any chance of a 6 core? Why would I buy the ivy over the previous (re: current) generation?



    Nothing rumored yet. Probably next year.

    Quote:

    I'd like the 27 inch top end gpu iMac as is. Can't justify it right now.



    Maybe in another year or so...when Intel are putting out iMac relevant 6 or 8 core chips... And gpus have chugged along a bit further...and screen density picks up...



    Lemon Bon Bon.



    I'm not sure if iMac will be significantly upgraded beyond Ivy Bridge. What will be obvious is that the Mini ought to be vastly improved with Ivy Bridge as will the Mac Book AIRs.
  • hmmhmm Posts: 3,348member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post


    The iMac.



    Heir apparent to the 'workstation' title held by the Mac 'Pro.'



    Is Ivy going to give us that much more cpu oomph?



    Will Apple put in a gpu option that can out perform the current high end one which is pretty impressive in something 2 inches thick?



    What about the retina screen? Can we seriously have something like that in a Mac? (Maybe not outside of an iPad 3 this soon...)



    Will we have even bigger screen sizes?



    Will it be more of the 'same?'



    Evolution? Revolution?



    Any chance of a 6 core? Why would I buy the ivy over the previous (re: current) generation?



    I'd like the 27 inch top end gpu iMac as is. Can't justify it right now.



    Maybe in another year or so...when Intel are putting out iMac relevant 6 or 8 core chips... And gpus have chugged along a bit further...and screen density picks up...



    Lemon Bon Bon.



    There aren't really any options available in comparable price range. If you want 6 core, it looks like Sandy Bridge E, i7 version, but that won't make it into an imac. The two machines are not the same. Put the same cpu in each and they still solve different issues. It's just that a lot of people take whatever opinion Apple assigns them. Screen sizes again... no cheap 30" panels. The current 27" panels are just refactored from the previous 25.5" setup from a 16:10 25.5 (marketed as 26") to a 16:9 27" panel. It's quite simple. Desktop displays have stagnated, but i'm fairly certain that significant density gains are still a couple years off. The display advancement these days has been in phones and tablets.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    Not a chance! The Pro serves an entirely different market.



    Nope, it is pretty clear the vast majority of the improvements have gone into the GPU. That doesn't mean the CPU won't be better, just that we are talking low percentages compared to the GPU.



    Of course Apple currently has rather pathetic GPU drivers so we might not see the payoff that Ivy Bridge will bring to other platforms.



    GPUs continue to go through dramatic increases in performance. The problem is if Apple intros retina displays much of that improvement will go to driving more pixels.



    Nothing rumored yet. Probably next year.





    I'm not sure if iMac will be significantly upgraded beyond Ivy Bridge. What will be obvious is that the Mini ought to be vastly improved with Ivy Bridge as will the Mac Book AIRs.



    I cannot find even a bit of evidence that panels of even semi comparable density for larger displays will be available anytime soon. Apple pulls from the same pool there as everyone else, and yes Apple's gpu drivers are terrible. Don't blame AMD. Apple is really restrictive on how much of the code they're allowed to touch. Intel doesn't make excellent gpu drivers on either side.
  • wizard69wizard69 Posts: 11,320member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmm View Post


    There aren't really any options available in comparable price range. If you want 6 core, it looks like Sandy Bridge E, i7 version, but that won't make it into an imac. The two machines are not the same. Put the same cpu in each and they still solve different issues. It's just that a lot of people take whatever opinion Apple assigns them. Screen sizes again... no cheap 30" panels. The current 27" panels are just refactored from the previous 25.5" setup from a 16:10 25.5 (marketed as 26") to a 16:9 27" panel. It's quite simple. Desktop displays have stagnated, but i'm fairly certain that significant density gains are still a couple years off. The display advancement these days has been in phones and tablets.







    I cannot find even a bit of evidence that panels of even semi comparable density for larger displays will be available anytime soon. Apple pulls from the same pool there as everyone else, and yes Apple's gpu drivers are terrible. Don't blame AMD. Apple is really restrictive on how much of the code they're allowed to touch. Intel doesn't make excellent gpu drivers on either side.



    Excellent no, better than Apples yes. It is rather pathetic that Linux is further ahead in the support of OpenGL and various other standards than Apple. Much of that Linux support comes directly from Intel. Sometimes I really do wonder what is up at Apple, many professional apps can really benefit from decent GPU usage.



    As to higher density displays I'm not sure that it is actually the case that Apple pulls from the same pool as everybody else. It looks like they actually partner in the R&D and production of many parts displays included. At least for iPad and iPhone there seems to be a bit of investment on Apples part. The Macs are often running generic panels now but that could change in the future.
  • hmmhmm Posts: 3,348member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    Excellent no, better than Apples yes. It is rather pathetic that Linux is further ahead in the support of OpenGL and various other standards than Apple. Much of that Linux support comes directly from Intel. Sometimes I really do wonder what is up at Apple, many professional apps can really benefit from decent GPU usage.



    As to higher density displays I'm not sure that it is actually the case that Apple pulls from the same pool as everybody else. It looks like they actually partner in the R&D and production of many parts displays included. At least for iPad and iPhone there seems to be a bit of investment on Apples part. The Macs are often running generic panels now but that could change in the future.



    The iphone and ipad are really high margin items for Apple. They do get considerable attention, and Apple may be partially funding R&D on some of these needed parts. Macs are part of a much more mature market, so the potential ROI may not be as motivating. Trying to scale that kind of pixel density upward is going to result in a number of engineering problems. I wanted to link a white paper, but I can't find it at the moment. Like I said regarding drivers, Apple is really restrictive on driver code. Then when something doesn't work right, everyone blames the gpu manufacturer rather than Apple. I didn't realize it was actually better under Linux. There are only a few things that keep me away from Linux. If I switched it would have to be Windows, and I'm considering it. I'd gain a couple useful features. If the OpenGL performance is enough of a gain too, I will go to Windows. Apple has been neglecting many things.
  • wizard69wizard69 Posts: 11,320member
    Well to qualify that I wouldn't reccomend Linux for general desktop usage. While the developer community strives to keep Linux up to date they do so at the expense of stability. That can be a problem or a benefit. I just got really frustrated with new installs every six months hoping for a better user land.



    With Mac OS/X you get the better user land and apps to go with it while keeping a UNIX core. For me that is pretty huge. I do have Linux installed on other machines in the house but not on hardware I want to interact with directly. The combo of UI and apps on Mac OS/X is hard to beat.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmm View Post


    The iphone and ipad are really high margin items for Apple. They do get considerable attention, and Apple may be partially funding R&D on some of these needed parts. Macs are part of a much more mature market, so the potential ROI may not be as motivating. Trying to scale that kind of pixel density upward is going to result in a number of engineering problems. I wanted to link a white paper, but I can't find it at the moment. Like I said regarding drivers, Apple is really restrictive on driver code. Then when something doesn't work right, everyone blames the gpu manufacturer rather than Apple. I didn't realize it was actually better under Linux. There are only a few things that keep me away from Linux. If I switched it would have to be Windows, and I'm considering it. I'd gain a couple useful features. If the OpenGL performance is enough of a gain too, I will go to Windows. Apple has been neglecting many things.



  • hmmhmm Posts: 3,348member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    Well to qualify that I wouldn't reccomend Linux for general desktop usage. While the developer community strives to keep Linux up to date they do so at the expense of stability. That can be a problem or a benefit. I just got really frustrated with new installs every six months hoping for a better user land.



    With Mac OS/X you get the better user land and apps to go with it while keeping a UNIX core. For me that is pretty huge. I do have Linux installed on other machines in the house but not on hardware I want to interact with directly. The combo of UI and apps on Mac OS/X is hard to beat.



    I do know a little bit about Linux. The reality of it is that my only real options are Windows or OSX. Linux has a couple deal breakers in there.
  • wizard69wizard69 Posts: 11,320member
    The one nice thing about the Linux and Mac OS combo is that you loose very little moving from one platform to the other. BASH is still BASH, Python is pretty much the same, you can build apps the same way on both platforms and system commands are similar enough.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmm View Post


    I do know a little bit about Linux. The reality of it is that my only real options are Windows or OSX. Linux has a couple deal breakers in there.



  • lemon bon bon.lemon bon bon. Posts: 2,073member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    Not a chance! The Pro serves an entirely different market.



    Mere semantics.



    The 'pro' is an overpriced dinosaur with a greedy price and underperformance with poor value.



    'Workstation.'



    What does mean, exactly? Apple always sold towers. G3, G4, G5, all of which the iMac pounds into the sand. And the current entry model? More than humbled by the current top end iMac.



    ...and yes, the 'dinosaur' may yet become a mammal. (Looks at the Mac Mini...*) Maybe the 'mini' is 'it.'



    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • lemon bon bon.lemon bon bon. Posts: 2,073member
    You're right about the GL drivers, though. They suck. Seeing as they back this 'open' standard, you'd think they'd want it to perform better. It's been a while since I've seen any Mac vs Windows GL benches. Last time I checked it was a 100% difference on the same card. :O



    Maybe they should hire some Nv'/Ati engineers.



    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • wizard69wizard69 Posts: 11,320member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post


    Mere semantics.



    No it is a reality. I suspect your problem is that you look at raw CPU performance as the only measure of a machines suitability. For some that is all that matters, but Mac Pro users have other concerns.

    Quote:

    The 'pro' is an overpriced dinosaur with a greedy price and underperformance with poor value.



    Well that I agree with for the most part. I'm not sure I'd call the machine a poor value though, because in some configurations it isn't that bad of a platform if you need it.

    Quote:

    'Workstation.'



    A workstation is whatever you use to get your work done. For many that can be an iMac, but for others the iMac simply isn't a solution.

    Quote:

    What does mean, exactly? Apple always sold towers. G3, G4, G5, all of which the iMac pounds into the sand. And the current entry model? More than humbled by the current top end iMac.



    New is faster than older, no surprise there. As to the current models it really depends upon what you are doing. Even today's Pro will vastly out perform the iMac under the right workloads. That is only significant if raw performance is your desire, as stated above the Pro brings other features to the market that the iMac can't support.

    Quote:

    ...and yes, the 'dinosaur' may yet become a mammal. (Looks at the Mac Mini...*) Maybe the 'mini' is 'it.'



    Lemon Bon Bon.



    The Mini isn't a replacement for the Pro and never will be. An XMac like machine might be able to replace the Pro for some users but certainly not all. In any event there is more to hardware choice than just raw CPU performance.
  • winterwinter Posts: 1,237member
    Is it possible to make a "Pro" machine without the "Pro" size? If not, how far away does anyone think we are away from one?
  • lemon bon bon.lemon bon bon. Posts: 2,073member
    The gravitational pull is towards iOS, phones, tablets and laptops.



    Apple's a pretty conservative company in some respects. ...in that the desktop strategy hasn't changed in years and won't no matter how much we wish...wishing won't make it so.



    I wouldn't rule out a slimmed down tower. But towers are so yesterday. In the scale of things, the Mac Pro is virtually 'hobby' territory if you were to compare its sales to the Apple TV.



    Take most of Apple's mobile business vs it's desktop stuff. Hello 'dwarfed by it.'



    Apple will probably give us one more 'pricey' tower update before the clock starts ticking on it's life.



    As I look at my Mum's Power Mac G4 450 2001(?) addition with an ATI alien face sucker GPU card struggle to browse today's youtube/internet or do anything without pausing for thought vs my iPhone 4 which is faster vs the iPad 2 that blows it out the water vs my iMac that is more of a workstation than that aged beast will ever be...I feel a tinge of sadness.



    The dinosuars got wiped out by the mammals. *looks towards the iMac...the Mac Mini, the laptops and the forth coming iPad 3 which will be 'all the computer' for the 'rest of us' that mainstream computer users will ever need.



    The gigherz race is over. Clunky cheap ass PC tower? Or an iPad 3? Low end Mac Pro coming in at £2100? Or full loaded iMac at the same price which spanks it black and blue and PURPLE for value? (and how can you have a workstation without a monitor? The iMac comes with a gorgeous 27 incher, baybee...)



    The mammals are already here and their sales are dwarfing the dinosaurs into virtual extinction. Some of us will find it hard to let go of the dinosaurs and maybe find use in riding the odd one...bare back.



    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • shouldiwaitshouldiwait Posts: 3member
    My macbook 13inch got squashed on a plane ride and now the screen has a line down the middle (screen damage). It is a 2009 and I do video editing for a sport just for fun and as well as my career/looking for sponsors. My tour doesn't start until May/June but I would like to find some sponsors before then. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6SAolSdIOI



    My computer charger stopped working as well so I have to use my roommates whenever he isn't...

    -Basically my computer isn't holding up and is difficult to work with final cut pro.



    I originally was going to get a refurbished 27 imac for 1400$ and work with that until the new stuff comes out. I wasn't sure how much I could re sale that thing for? Thoughts?



    I don't think they will come out with the new imacs anytime very soon because on the site it still says introducing the NEW imacs even though they have been out for about a year now. I figured they would wait until they release the mountain lion.



    I also travel a lot so eventually would get one of the new mac books.



    As of right now I'm not sure what I should do!! It drives me crazy that I can't edit anything right now without being frustrated on the screen as well as no charger.



    Any thoughts on what I should do or what you would do???

    Thanks guys if you could give me some input and thoughts of when they would come out...
  • macroninmacronin Posts: 1,123member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ShouldIwait View Post


    I originally was going to get a refurbished 27 imac for 1400$ and work with that until the new stuff comes out. I wasn't sure how much I could re sale that thing for? Thoughts?



    Get the best iMac you can for right now?



    Save your pennies until the rev2 of the Ivy Bridge revised MacBook Pros?



    Then use the iMac as a render slave & miscellaneous activities machine, with the new laptop being your main (and on-the-go) 'workstation'?



    If they can get Thunderbolt to work as a workload distribution network (Lemon Bon Bon's stack of mammalian Mac minis?) and code it into Apple programs, the offloading of FCX jobs should be seamless?
  • shouldiwaitshouldiwait Posts: 3member
    Nice thanks. Any thoughts on when the new iMacs would come out? How much better they will be? It really sucks because its coming soon and with a new design...

    -Do you think they will come out in the summer when mountain lion releases?

    -The new MBP will be better than the 27in iMac?

    -I could connect the New MBP to the old 27 iMac for a bigger screen?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacRonin View Post


    Get the best iMac you can for right now?



    Save your pennies until the rev2 of the Ivy Bridge revised MacBook Pros?



    Then use the iMac as a render slave & miscellaneous activities machine, with the new laptop being your main (and on-the-go) 'workstation'?



    If they can get Thunderbolt to work as a workload distribution network (Lemon Bon Bon's stack of mammalian Mac minis?) and code it into Apple programs, the offloading of FCX jobs should be seamless?



  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 39,469member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ShouldIwait View Post


    -Do you think they will come out in the summer when mountain lion releases?

    -The new MBP will be better than the 27in iMac?

    -I could connect the New MBP to the old 27 iMac for a bigger screen?



    The? iMacs aren't expected to have a new design. MAYBE drop the ODD, but not a new design.



    1. When? No. A month or so before? Yes.

    2. We don't really have any Ivy Bridge benchmarks yet, so we can't say. Better than the 27" Ivy Bridge iMac? No. Better than the current one? Depends on the MacBook Pro and how good Ivy Bridge really is.

    3. As long as it's the most modern iMac, yeah.
  • shouldiwaitshouldiwait Posts: 3member
    Nice I know it's all rumors and I know there are probably other posts just like mine of people not knowing if they should just order a iMac or wait. Frankly I can wait another month but if it's over a month I might as well get it now. I just wasn't really too sure how much I could re-sale it for granted I'd get it for 1400$ refurbished. So even if I lost 200$-300$ it would be worth it while I dont have a working computer right now. Granted it all depends on what comes out and what the specs are



    -What would you do? Wait a month or just get it now?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    The? iMacs aren't expected to have a new design. MAYBE drop the ODD, but not a new design.



    1. When? No. A month or so before? Yes.

    2. We don't really have any Ivy Bridge benchmarks yet, so we can't say. Better than the 27" Ivy Bridge iMac? No. Better than the current one? Depends on the MacBook Pro and how good Ivy Bridge really is.

    3. As long as it's the most modern iMac, yeah.



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