Anyone notice in their letter that Google refers to the licensing standard as RAND instead of FRAND, which effectively drops the word FAIR from the acronym? \
Obviously they don't want to be fair.
It's RAND in Europe..hence why some people write it as F/RAND
edit: I may have it backwards...I think RAND is preferred in the US and FRAND in Europe...someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Mueller is just hired gun from MSFT, I won't believe a single thing from this guy. Now obviously GOOG is trying to attack Apple and MSFT with the patents from Motorola, I mean why else would they pay $12B for it? But the point is, Mueller is not to be trusted. If anything this guy would go against Apple the moment MSFT's WP started to get steam against the iDevices.
So if you don't like the message, shoot the messenger? The problem with your theory is that
(A) it is not just Microsoft, but also Cisco & Apple (and doubtless more companies will add their name) who object the the abusive way Google is misusing FRAND
(B) You only have to read the evidence cited in Mueller's posts to see that he is absolutely right about Google, Motorola and Samsung abusing the whole basis of essential patents and FRAND
I find it amazing that Google could be behaving so stupidly. I can only assume that it is out of sheer desperation as the noose tightens in numerous court cases around the world on its gross and persistent hypocritical misconduct in the misuse of IP, copyright and patents, where Android is being taken apart by Oracle, Apple and Microsoft and others.
In previous posts I have said that Google were the moving hand behind this cartel's monopolistic abuse of trust. I had expected Google to try to deny this. Instead this Google's letter explicitly admits and agrees that they fully endorse Motorola's misconduct.
Apple appear to have played a blinder, suckering Google and Motorola in the Manheim courts into gross abuse of FRAND, leaving no choice for the EU to include Google and Motorola in their antitrust investigation of Samesung, who in turn Apple had complained about to the EU.
This has extraordinarily serious consequences for Google and their band of pirates. The EU has ultimate jurisdiction and can, and I am sure will, annul all the cartel's little victories and illegal injunctions in the German Courts. More significantly, the EU can and probably will, fine all three companies 10% of their global revenue as a warning to others (welcome billions for the financially hard pressed Euro). They can also ban the Google take-over of Motorola, which will be devastating because Googarola will not be able to operate in the 450 million people European market.
Finally stripped of their outrageous FRAND defences the Google cartel will be picked apart by Apple, thoroughly degrading Android, stripping it of all the bits they have stolen and receiving countless billions in compensation for the hundreds of millions of Android units sold.
It appears that Apple and Oracle can both prove wilful infringement by Google, entitling them to injunctive relief and triple damages! (Apple because, while at working at Apple Rubin (head of Android) was actually working in the team which developed patent '263 meaning he can hardly deny that he knew full well of Android's wilful infringement of this patent and Oracle because of the incriminating internal emails amongst the senior executives which Google have desperately but unsuccessfully tried to get excluded from evidence before the jury).
If for any reason Motorola won this lawsuit, wouldn't this just give more leverage to Apple and Microsoft who own a larger amount of patents that are FRAND?
Let Motorola win and then lead Microsoft and Apple create an environment where the two together will pull all patents together and just kill off mobile smartphones created by android vendors, I'm sure they'll be screaming about FRAND licensing at that point.
Like how stupid is Motorola? They are suing a company for one patent that is in a patent pool that they use, and the company they are suing owns a large amount of patents in the pool as well?
I mean I'm making the assumption that Apple owns a large FRAND portfolio, I know Motorola's been around a while and use to make a significant amount of contributions before there recent spiral.
Either way I've lost all respect for Google at this point. Standards are essential and without it the market would be a disarray. Imagine companies having to create standards that would only apply to their company. Soon enough each carrier could only support one manufacture, or have to increase prices as the hardware for each antenna would increase significantly. Small companies wouldn't cut the line to make it onto there antenna space, and half or more of the manufacturing companies behind smart phones would fall out.
All theoretical of course, I don't believe this would ever happen as its just too much money lost for companies not to solve this together, though I believe it would be beneficial towards Apple, they would likely kill off most android competitors.
Anyone notice in their letter that Google refers to the licensing standard as RAND instead of FRAND, which effectively drops the word FAIR from the acronym? \
Obviously they don't want to be fair.
The term RAND is apparently also used in the U.S. alongside FRAND. Not by accident however, the 'F' is dropped with great intention it seems. \
Interesting that in parts of the world, for any contract to be valid, it must be shown to be fair on all parties and can be challenged on this basis. Don't know about the U.S.
Does anyone know how many FRAND patent licences (including cross-licensed ones) are required to sell a functional 3G mobile phone? 500 maybe? If they all required 2.25% of the selling price a manufacturer would have to pay out 1125% of the selling price of the phone in royalties!
Matter of time before they start to show their horns.
This action of their is downright stupid IMHO because it is one against many and imagination moto has to pay royalties to many companies.
Since moto becomes a part of goog they can be sue for infringement for mobile patents own by many companies. It is like hilter declaring world war two.
The patents are theirs (well, Moto's) so they can do what they want with them. From that point of view I support them. However they should act in their long term self-interest, not short-term.
Face it, this kind of harassment is not going to stop the iPhone. All it will do is make things bitter with Apple (and now Cisco and MS coming in to it). How long until the next big thing comes along and Google needs to make a deal with one of these companies? There is such a thing as competing, playing hardball, fair enough. But there is also such a thing as just being a d*ck.
Except he is reporting data from a court room. Would you care to explain why he would sit in a court room and make stuff up?
A couple of days ago, the same legal team that are fighting for both Motorola and Samsung in Germany, were in court against Microsoft as well. Again they wanted 2.25% royalties on the retail selling price of Windows for the use of Motorola's patents that were rolled into h264.
Yes you read it right, Motorola are suing Microsoft for 2.25% on each and every copy of Windows because they have a single codec for playing back h264. If they get away with this they could effectively shut Apple's use of any of it's hardware down as Apple have built a huge amount of stuff around that format.
If 2.25% of the net selling price for a FRAND patent is acceptable to Google, Apple should make a offer of licensing patent '263 for 57% of net handset price, then go back and collect royalties for all the devices that have infringed upon it until this point.
If for any reason Motorola won this lawsuit, wouldn't this just give more leverage to Apple and Microsoft who own a larger amount of patents that are FRAND?
Let Motorola win and then lead Microsoft and Apple create an environment where the two together will pull all patents together and just kill off mobile smartphones created by android vendors, I'm sure they'll be screaming about FRAND licensing at that point.
Like how stupid is Motorola? They are suing a company for one patent that is in a patent pool that they use, and the company they are suing owns a large amount of patents in the pool as well?
I mean I'm making the assumption that Apple owns a large FRAND portfolio, I know Motorola's been around a while and use to make a significant amount of contributions before there recent spiral.
Either way I've lost all respect for Google at this point. Standards are essential and without it the market would be a disarray. Imagine companies having to create standards that would only apply to their company. Soon enough each carrier could only support one manufacture, or have to increase prices as the hardware for each antenna would increase significantly. Small companies wouldn't cut the line to make it onto there antenna space, and half or more of the manufacturing companies behind smart phones would fall out.
All theoretical of course, I don't believe this would ever happen as its just too much money lost for companies not to solve this together, though I believe it would be beneficial towards Apple, they would likely kill off most android competitors.
The letter Google sent out was really more like a Declaration of War than anything else. For Apple, Microsoft, Cisco, and others to ramp it up to thermo-nuclear war, would cause more damage then be helpful. The EU courts have shown to not have much sympathy for companies who mis-behave. Google and Moto are playing a dangerous game of "chicken."
The only reason I can see for such over-the-top corporate behavior is they are desperate. MotoMobile is losing money and nearly broke. Google over-paid for Moto and can't see any way of recovering their money unless they force a money-grab. Furthermore, Google's earnings are off... they've neglected their cash cow; the search business. Taking on manufacturing cell phones will further dilute their focus. Getting smacked down by the EU could cause an implosion at GooMoto.
Comments
That link isn't working for me.
Sorry:
http://articles.law360.s3.amazonaws....doc_num-93.pdf
Hope that works.
Anyone notice in their letter that Google refers to the licensing standard as RAND instead of FRAND, which effectively drops the word FAIR from the acronym?
Obviously they don't want to be fair.
It's RAND in Europe..hence why some people write it as F/RAND
edit: I may have it backwards...I think RAND is preferred in the US and FRAND in Europe...someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Mueller is just hired gun from MSFT, I won't believe a single thing from this guy. Now obviously GOOG is trying to attack Apple and MSFT with the patents from Motorola, I mean why else would they pay $12B for it? But the point is, Mueller is not to be trusted. If anything this guy would go against Apple the moment MSFT's WP started to get steam against the iDevices.
So if you don't like the message, shoot the messenger? The problem with your theory is that
(A) it is not just Microsoft, but also Cisco & Apple (and doubtless more companies will add their name) who object the the abusive way Google is misusing FRAND
(B) You only have to read the evidence cited in Mueller's posts to see that he is absolutely right about Google, Motorola and Samsung abusing the whole basis of essential patents and FRAND
I find it amazing that Google could be behaving so stupidly. I can only assume that it is out of sheer desperation as the noose tightens in numerous court cases around the world on its gross and persistent hypocritical misconduct in the misuse of IP, copyright and patents, where Android is being taken apart by Oracle, Apple and Microsoft and others.
In previous posts I have said that Google were the moving hand behind this cartel's monopolistic abuse of trust. I had expected Google to try to deny this. Instead this Google's letter explicitly admits and agrees that they fully endorse Motorola's misconduct.
Apple appear to have played a blinder, suckering Google and Motorola in the Manheim courts into gross abuse of FRAND, leaving no choice for the EU to include Google and Motorola in their antitrust investigation of Samesung, who in turn Apple had complained about to the EU.
This has extraordinarily serious consequences for Google and their band of pirates. The EU has ultimate jurisdiction and can, and I am sure will, annul all the cartel's little victories and illegal injunctions in the German Courts. More significantly, the EU can and probably will, fine all three companies 10% of their global revenue as a warning to others (welcome billions for the financially hard pressed Euro). They can also ban the Google take-over of Motorola, which will be devastating because Googarola will not be able to operate in the 450 million people European market.
Finally stripped of their outrageous FRAND defences the Google cartel will be picked apart by Apple, thoroughly degrading Android, stripping it of all the bits they have stolen and receiving countless billions in compensation for the hundreds of millions of Android units sold.
It appears that Apple and Oracle can both prove wilful infringement by Google, entitling them to injunctive relief and triple damages! (Apple because, while at working at Apple Rubin (head of Android) was actually working in the team which developed patent '263 meaning he can hardly deny that he knew full well of Android's wilful infringement of this patent and Oracle because of the incriminating internal emails amongst the senior executives which Google have desperately but unsuccessfully tried to get excluded from evidence before the jury).
I trust Google.
I also trust the politicians, always.
</S>
Let Motorola win and then lead Microsoft and Apple create an environment where the two together will pull all patents together and just kill off mobile smartphones created by android vendors, I'm sure they'll be screaming about FRAND licensing at that point.
Like how stupid is Motorola? They are suing a company for one patent that is in a patent pool that they use, and the company they are suing owns a large amount of patents in the pool as well?
I mean I'm making the assumption that Apple owns a large FRAND portfolio, I know Motorola's been around a while and use to make a significant amount of contributions before there recent spiral.
Either way I've lost all respect for Google at this point. Standards are essential and without it the market would be a disarray. Imagine companies having to create standards that would only apply to their company. Soon enough each carrier could only support one manufacture, or have to increase prices as the hardware for each antenna would increase significantly. Small companies wouldn't cut the line to make it onto there antenna space, and half or more of the manufacturing companies behind smart phones would fall out.
All theoretical of course, I don't believe this would ever happen as its just too much money lost for companies not to solve this together, though I believe it would be beneficial towards Apple, they would likely kill off most android competitors.
Anyone notice in their letter that Google refers to the licensing standard as RAND instead of FRAND, which effectively drops the word FAIR from the acronym?
Obviously they don't want to be fair.
The term RAND is apparently also used in the U.S. alongside FRAND. Not by accident however, the 'F' is dropped with great intention it seems.
Interesting that in parts of the world, for any contract to be valid, it must be shown to be fair on all parties and can be challenged on this basis. Don't know about the U.S.
Steve was willing to go to nuclear war with them; with $100bn in the bank, what does apple have to lose?
This action of their is downright stupid IMHO because it is one against many and imagination moto has to pay royalties to many companies.
Since moto becomes a part of goog they can be sue for infringement for mobile patents own by many companies. It is like hilter declaring world war two.
Yes now it should be Be Evil.
I hope facebook eats their lunch in advertising.
Google is going downhill regardless...
They have turned into technology thieves instead of innovators.
Time will tell.
Face it, this kind of harassment is not going to stop the iPhone. All it will do is make things bitter with Apple (and now Cisco and MS coming in to it). How long until the next big thing comes along and Google needs to make a deal with one of these companies? There is such a thing as competing, playing hardball, fair enough. But there is also such a thing as just being a d*ck.
I feel that means something....
I won't believe a single thing from this guy.
Except he is reporting data from a court room. Would you care to explain why he would sit in a court room and make stuff up?
A couple of days ago, the same legal team that are fighting for both Motorola and Samsung in Germany, were in court against Microsoft as well. Again they wanted 2.25% royalties on the retail selling price of Windows for the use of Motorola's patents that were rolled into h264.
Yes you read it right, Motorola are suing Microsoft for 2.25% on each and every copy of Windows because they have a single codec for playing back h264. If they get away with this they could effectively shut Apple's use of any of it's hardware down as Apple have built a huge amount of stuff around that format.
Where is Gatorguy on this one? Not 8 hours ago he was sure Google was not going to continue Motorola's patent BS.
Is he that naive? No wonder he has highly opinion of Google.
If for any reason Motorola won this lawsuit, wouldn't this just give more leverage to Apple and Microsoft who own a larger amount of patents that are FRAND?
Let Motorola win and then lead Microsoft and Apple create an environment where the two together will pull all patents together and just kill off mobile smartphones created by android vendors, I'm sure they'll be screaming about FRAND licensing at that point.
Like how stupid is Motorola? They are suing a company for one patent that is in a patent pool that they use, and the company they are suing owns a large amount of patents in the pool as well?
I mean I'm making the assumption that Apple owns a large FRAND portfolio, I know Motorola's been around a while and use to make a significant amount of contributions before there recent spiral.
Either way I've lost all respect for Google at this point. Standards are essential and without it the market would be a disarray. Imagine companies having to create standards that would only apply to their company. Soon enough each carrier could only support one manufacture, or have to increase prices as the hardware for each antenna would increase significantly. Small companies wouldn't cut the line to make it onto there antenna space, and half or more of the manufacturing companies behind smart phones would fall out.
All theoretical of course, I don't believe this would ever happen as its just too much money lost for companies not to solve this together, though I believe it would be beneficial towards Apple, they would likely kill off most android competitors.
The letter Google sent out was really more like a Declaration of War than anything else. For Apple, Microsoft, Cisco, and others to ramp it up to thermo-nuclear war, would cause more damage then be helpful. The EU courts have shown to not have much sympathy for companies who mis-behave. Google and Moto are playing a dangerous game of "chicken."
The only reason I can see for such over-the-top corporate behavior is they are desperate. MotoMobile is losing money and nearly broke. Google over-paid for Moto and can't see any way of recovering their money unless they force a money-grab. Furthermore, Google's earnings are off... they've neglected their cash cow; the search business. Taking on manufacturing cell phones will further dilute their focus. Getting smacked down by the EU could cause an implosion at GooMoto.
What a surprise. Not.
Looking for wisdom from Gatorguy... Not.
Then you didn't look in the proper place. I posted my disappointment and link to Google's letter well before AI (or you guys) got around to it.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=143118
Post 14
Bl**dy Heck. It's going to be hard to keep my New Year's Resolution to be less anti-Google/Android/Samsung...!
THAT'll hurt Google (although Apple is already well on its way to become independent from Google).
Any other suggestions beside Yahoo?