Hey, solipsism, come on over here and tell these guys why virtually everything has to be redone if the size changes. You're much better at it than I.
I'm not sure I can do that right now. Getting a late start today... still in line for my coffee.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo
Obviously, if Apple decides that a 4.7-inch device makes sense to the end user, your suggestion that it is beyond the company's ability to handle introducing such a device seems rather absurd.
He never stated nor implied that it's beyond Apple's ability. Apple could make an 40" iPad if they wanted but does that seem like something that make sense? Of course not.
The argument is that Apple is very careful with their touchscreen displays because that is also the primary input. As we've seen with the iPhone they let the iPhone 3GS display get behind the competition because the double resolution display wasn't ready. They didn't do small changes to the display that would need to be accounted for in all app and the SDK. They wanted the simplest, scalable growth to make it easy across the board.
I'd find more logic in keeping the same screen size and reducing the black border a little. I personally would't mind if it were smaller and lighter.
I can see the border getting slightly smaller but not much, at least not without a revamp of the way you use the device. People complained about the border with the first iPad but the reality was that Apple already made it pretty thin. It fits your thumb when holding it.
As for being lighter that is something Apple hasn't done in the iPhone, although the iPad is a different device. Still, it's the battery that is the heaviest component and the Retina Display will likely not allow for that to be reduced.
I can see the border getting slightly smaller but not much, at least not without a revamp of the way you use the device. People complained about the border with the first iPad but the reality was that Apple already made it pretty thin. It fits your thumb when holding it.
As for being lighter that is something Apple hasn't done in the iPhone, although the iPad is a different device. Still, it's the battery that is the heaviest component and the Retina Display will likely not allow for that to be reduced.
apple will be forced to increase size of iphone screen. then the apple fans will herald it as the next great thing ignoring the fact that larger screens were around long before.
thats why i am using galaxy nexus, bigger screen (well, that and it is just a better product if you use google apps etc).
then the apple fans will herald it as the next great thing ignoring the fact that larger screens were around long before.
I wonder if you make blanket statements because you're trolling or because you really can't see how it makes your comments pointless.
Lets go thorough a couple examples...
Apple releases a 4" iPhone but reduces the border and thickness so that that you can still sweep the thumb across the display in one hand as easily as you can with the iPhone 4S. That's a winner!
Apple releases a 4.65" mammoth but keeps the edge border about the same and still maintains their 3:2 aspect ratio. That's a failure!
I don't even think you understand why I'd even mention the aspect ratio or how that can affect its usefulness of the device. Take it from me it's important.
I find it incredible that anyone still listens to these rumours. It's just not going to happen.
Apple make decisions based on rational design considerations.
1) This offers nothing the existing iPad does not.
2) This would complicate the wonderfully simple two-form-factor approach Apple has been so successful with so far.
Introducing a tweener device would mean having UI elements that were slightly smaller than their 9.7" counterparts. That's not elegant, it's Androidesque. Developers lives are incredibly simple designing for 'the iPad'. Why give them the headache of having to design for two different screen sizes that aren't different enough to be worthwhile? It's messy and it's not Apple. I really would have thought people would be getting this by now.
I'm not quite sure why there is this level of speculation that Apple would pursue a smaller form factor. They have proven the worth of different size ipods, macbooks, and imacs; why wouldn't this apply to the ipad line? I personally would purchase an 8" ipad to supplement my ipad in an instant. In all honesty, the 9.7" form factor is not all that portable.
why in the world would Apple fragment the iPad more than it has to? People are so stupid it is mind boggling. The smart move, and what i would put my money on is apple releases the ipad 3 and continues to sell a 8 or 16GB ipad 2 at a lower price just like they do with the iPhone. This limits fragmentation and brand/product dilution.
I don't necessarily see this as unthinkable. An iPad with a somewhat smaller screen but which retains the iPad 2's resolution would enable a drop in price and a better differentiation between a higher res larger format pad. If the bezel was reduced by a third or so the overall size would make it a very nice size and more portable.
The important question is if such a model would unnecessarily cannibalize the regular iPad. The upside could be that it would be popular with younger audiences - read education and increased sales could easily offset the cannibalization. I am not convinced but I am not ready to dismiss it out of hand. Things will move within the Apple tablet space eventually. In terms of what users want, nothing is set in stone. What was true a few years ago is not necessarily true today.
I seem to remember Steve also saying that Apple would never build a phone and that they wouldn't sell eBooks through iTunes because "nobody reads anymore". Let's be kind and say that Steve was prone to change his mind on occasion.
I'd like to see a device exactly half the size of the current iPad. Don't know what size screen that would be and don't really care if they call it an iPad or an iPod. I think it would be an ideal size for playing games and reading eBooks on the move.
It's not necessarily 8" exactly. Rumors of 7.85 4:3 aspect ration iPad mini were out and it's a cute size.
7.85" 4:3 is 29.60"^2
9.70" 4:3 is 45.19"^2
That is substantial difference in screen area but i'm convinced Apple will go this route. They haven't even differentiated the iPhone screen size which I think is more pressing than splitting the tablet market into 2 sizes with the 9.7" model having two resolutions.
Quote:
16:9 tablets are too narrow IMO.
They are definitely too narrow. Aren't the Kindle eBooks closer to 4:3 than 16:9 but their media tablet is 16:9, right?
We can speculate all day, it may or may not be true. But if Apple did release an 8" iPad, I believe the larger version would probably get a size bump to around 11" Otherwise there would be too little difference between the two models.
Then again, for all we know this might not even be a true iPad at all and instead might be the new Apple TV/iPad hybrid. Attach some dongle to your HDMI input on your TV that also includes WiFi and use this 8" Apple TV (iPad) like device not only as your remote, but also as a game controller and universal remote since it would include the full iOS with all the apps. Of course they could do this with the larger iPad as well. Pure speculation on my part, but if anyone could do it well it is Apple.
Interesting that the new Apple TV is also due for an upgrade. I wonder if there will be tighter integration between it and the iPad and possibly put a full blown iOS and beefier specs on the new Apple TV.
That is substantial difference in screen area but i'm convinced Apple will go this route. They haven't even differentiated the iPhone screen size which I think is more pressing than splitting the tablet market into 2 sizes with the 9.7" model having two resolutions.
The argument would be that this is what the future will hold. A the moment there will be two 9.7" versions with different resolutions but a shift could mean that in the future there will be a hi res 9.7 model and a somewhat lower res 7.85 model. Could the present 9.7 work with the same res in a 7.85" size? I imagine the UI would still work adequately.
I don't necessarily see this as unthinkable. . . .
This seems to me the best way to think/not think about the possibility of a smaller tablet (or larger iPod touch). Why paint yourself into a corner and say it's never going to happen? The ongoing assumption should be: Apple knows what they are doing. If they come out with something that fails, then we could revise the assumption.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxMacCary
Apple tests a lot of things -- doesn't mean it's gonna actually be released.
Besides, after what Steve said, what message is Apple gonna send by going against his express wishes for a tablet that's only two inches different ?!?
Ain't gonna happen ....
Here's an example of painting oneself into a corner. The way out would be to see how Apple could easily say that Steve was working on this way before he died. Because if this rumor is true, he would have been. Sorry, Box. But I agree with your first point. They no doubt try out a bunch of stuff even out to the stage of test manufacturing.
Apple tests a lot of things -- doesn't mean it's gonna actually be released.
Besides, after what Steve said, what message is Apple gonna send by going against his express wishes for a tablet that's only two inches different ?!?
Ain't gonna happen ....
Let Apple drop the price on iPad 2 when iPad 3 comes out and see what happens. I have a feeling if there's an untouched market, price more than size will influence their decision to purchase.
I'm not sure I can do that right now. Getting a late start today... still in line for my coffee.
He never stated nor implied that it's beyond Apple's ability. Apple could make an 40" iPad if they wanted but does that seem like something that make sense? Of course not.
The argument is that Apple is very careful with their touchscreen displays because that is also the primary input. As we've seen with the iPhone they let the iPhone 3GS display get behind the competition because the double resolution display wasn't ready. They didn't do small changes to the display that would need to be accounted for in all app and the SDK. They wanted the simplest, scalable growth to make it easy across the board.
There has been what has been, strictly speaking, stated and what is implied.
What is being implied is that terrible calamitous events would transpire were Apple to attempt to switch from a 3.5-inch Touch to a 4.7-inch Touch. In truth, the amount of work that Apple would have to perform on the IOS to accommodate such a change would be rather minor and there is no doubt in my mind that the vast majority of software currently made for use with the 3.5-inch Touch would run perfectly fine on a 4.7-inch Touch. We're not talking anything close to the difference between a Touch and an iPad. If this really were the problem it's made out to be, how can it be that we have identical software running on devices ranging from 11-inch tablets up through to desktops employing screens well above 24 inches.
There is no question that if one is comparing how a program behaves on a 9.7-inch iPad to how it would work on a 3.5-inch iPhone, there are significant differences. But seriously, going from 3.5 inches to 4.7 inches is an insignificant leap. As such, there is no real fragmenting going on if the iPhone and the Touch are not identical in screen size. They are different devices and the compromises that are required for one product should not be imposed on the other when unnecessary.
It is, by the way, shortsighted to imagine Apple would never change the size of the screen on the iPhone and if the iPhone 6, for example, goes to let's say a 4.1-inch screen and the Touch goes to 4.7, the difference would be even smaller.
I don't think Apple is locked into a 3.5-inch screen on either the iPhone or the Touch. That's not how this is set up and I think what is underestimated is the flexibility of the IOS infrastructure that Apple has established.
Comments
Hey, solipsism, come on over here and tell these guys why virtually everything has to be redone if the size changes. You're much better at it than I.
I'm not sure I can do that right now. Getting a late start today... still in line for my coffee.
Obviously, if Apple decides that a 4.7-inch device makes sense to the end user, your suggestion that it is beyond the company's ability to handle introducing such a device seems rather absurd.
He never stated nor implied that it's beyond Apple's ability. Apple could make an 40" iPad if they wanted but does that seem like something that make sense? Of course not.
The argument is that Apple is very careful with their touchscreen displays because that is also the primary input. As we've seen with the iPhone they let the iPhone 3GS display get behind the competition because the double resolution display wasn't ready. They didn't do small changes to the display that would need to be accounted for in all app and the SDK. They wanted the simplest, scalable growth to make it easy across the board.
?reducing the black border a little.
You need the bezel.
I'd find more logic in keeping the same screen size and reducing the black border a little. I personally would't mind if it were smaller and lighter.
I can see the border getting slightly smaller but not much, at least not without a revamp of the way you use the device. People complained about the border with the first iPad but the reality was that Apple already made it pretty thin. It fits your thumb when holding it.
As for being lighter that is something Apple hasn't done in the iPhone, although the iPad is a different device. Still, it's the battery that is the heaviest component and the Retina Display will likely not allow for that to be reduced.
I can see the border getting slightly smaller but not much, at least not without a revamp of the way you use the device. People complained about the border with the first iPad but the reality was that Apple already made it pretty thin. It fits your thumb when holding it.
As for being lighter that is something Apple hasn't done in the iPhone, although the iPad is a different device. Still, it's the battery that is the heaviest component and the Retina Display will likely not allow for that to be reduced.
apple will be forced to increase size of iphone screen. then the apple fans will herald it as the next great thing ignoring the fact that larger screens were around long before.
thats why i am using galaxy nexus, bigger screen (well, that and it is just a better product if you use google apps etc).
then the apple fans will herald it as the next great thing ignoring the fact that larger screens were around long before.
I wonder if you make blanket statements because you're trolling or because you really can't see how it makes your comments pointless.
Lets go thorough a couple examples...
- Apple releases a 4" iPhone but reduces the border and thickness so that that you can still sweep the thumb across the display in one hand as easily as you can with the iPhone 4S. That's a winner!
- Apple releases a 4.65" mammoth but keeps the edge border about the same and still maintains their 3:2 aspect ratio. That's a failure!
I don't even think you understand why I'd even mention the aspect ratio or how that can affect its usefulness of the device. Take it from me it's important.I find it incredible that anyone still listens to these rumours. It's just not going to happen.
Apple make decisions based on rational design considerations.
1) This offers nothing the existing iPad does not.
2) This would complicate the wonderfully simple two-form-factor approach Apple has been so successful with so far.
Introducing a tweener device would mean having UI elements that were slightly smaller than their 9.7" counterparts. That's not elegant, it's Androidesque. Developers lives are incredibly simple designing for 'the iPad'. Why give them the headache of having to design for two different screen sizes that aren't different enough to be worthwhile? It's messy and it's not Apple. I really would have thought people would be getting this by now.
I'm not quite sure why there is this level of speculation that Apple would pursue a smaller form factor. They have proven the worth of different size ipods, macbooks, and imacs; why wouldn't this apply to the ipad line? I personally would purchase an 8" ipad to supplement my ipad in an instant. In all honesty, the 9.7" form factor is not all that portable.
The important question is if such a model would unnecessarily cannibalize the regular iPad. The upside could be that it would be popular with younger audiences - read education and increased sales could easily offset the cannibalization. I am not convinced but I am not ready to dismiss it out of hand. Things will move within the Apple tablet space eventually. In terms of what users want, nothing is set in stone. What was true a few years ago is not necessarily true today.
I'd like to see a device exactly half the size of the current iPad. Don't know what size screen that would be and don't really care if they call it an iPad or an iPod. I think it would be an ideal size for playing games and reading eBooks on the move.
Besides, after what Steve said, what message is Apple gonna send by going against his express wishes for a tablet that's only two inches different ?!?
Ain't gonna happen ....
It's not necessarily 8" exactly. Rumors of 7.85 4:3 aspect ration iPad mini were out and it's a cute size.
That's not bad. I think it'd sell at $350-$399 depending on specs. Not everyone needs a large tablet but the 7" 16:9 tablets are too narrow IMO.
I think it could be legit.
It's not necessarily 8" exactly. Rumors of 7.85 4:3 aspect ration iPad mini were out and it's a cute size.
16:9 tablets are too narrow IMO.
They are definitely too narrow. Aren't the Kindle eBooks closer to 4:3 than 16:9 but their media tablet is 16:9, right?
Then again, for all we know this might not even be a true iPad at all and instead might be the new Apple TV/iPad hybrid. Attach some dongle to your HDMI input on your TV that also includes WiFi and use this 8" Apple TV (iPad) like device not only as your remote, but also as a game controller and universal remote since it would include the full iOS with all the apps. Of course they could do this with the larger iPad as well. Pure speculation on my part, but if anyone could do it well it is Apple.
Interesting that the new Apple TV is also due for an upgrade. I wonder if there will be tighter integration between it and the iPad and possibly put a full blown iOS and beefier specs on the new Apple TV.
That is substantial difference in screen area but i'm convinced Apple will go this route. They haven't even differentiated the iPhone screen size which I think is more pressing than splitting the tablet market into 2 sizes with the 9.7" model having two resolutions.
The argument would be that this is what the future will hold. A the moment there will be two 9.7" versions with different resolutions but a shift could mean that in the future there will be a hi res 9.7 model and a somewhat lower res 7.85 model. Could the present 9.7 work with the same res in a 7.85" size? I imagine the UI would still work adequately.
I don't necessarily see this as unthinkable. . . .
This seems to me the best way to think/not think about the possibility of a smaller tablet (or larger iPod touch). Why paint yourself into a corner and say it's never going to happen? The ongoing assumption should be: Apple knows what they are doing. If they come out with something that fails, then we could revise the assumption.
Apple tests a lot of things -- doesn't mean it's gonna actually be released.
Besides, after what Steve said, what message is Apple gonna send by going against his express wishes for a tablet that's only two inches different ?!?
Ain't gonna happen ....
Here's an example of painting oneself into a corner. The way out would be to see how Apple could easily say that Steve was working on this way before he died. Because if this rumor is true, he would have been. Sorry, Box. But I agree with your first point. They no doubt try out a bunch of stuff even out to the stage of test manufacturing.
Apple tests a lot of things -- doesn't mean it's gonna actually be released.
Besides, after what Steve said, what message is Apple gonna send by going against his express wishes for a tablet that's only two inches different ?!?
Ain't gonna happen ....
Let Apple drop the price on iPad 2 when iPad 3 comes out and see what happens. I have a feeling if there's an untouched market, price more than size will influence their decision to purchase.
Nice PS job keeping the hands to scale
That image fairly closely represents the size difference 7.85" : 9.70" , if I am not mistaken.
I'm not sure I can do that right now. Getting a late start today... still in line for my coffee.
He never stated nor implied that it's beyond Apple's ability. Apple could make an 40" iPad if they wanted but does that seem like something that make sense? Of course not.
The argument is that Apple is very careful with their touchscreen displays because that is also the primary input. As we've seen with the iPhone they let the iPhone 3GS display get behind the competition because the double resolution display wasn't ready. They didn't do small changes to the display that would need to be accounted for in all app and the SDK. They wanted the simplest, scalable growth to make it easy across the board.
There has been what has been, strictly speaking, stated and what is implied.
What is being implied is that terrible calamitous events would transpire were Apple to attempt to switch from a 3.5-inch Touch to a 4.7-inch Touch. In truth, the amount of work that Apple would have to perform on the IOS to accommodate such a change would be rather minor and there is no doubt in my mind that the vast majority of software currently made for use with the 3.5-inch Touch would run perfectly fine on a 4.7-inch Touch. We're not talking anything close to the difference between a Touch and an iPad. If this really were the problem it's made out to be, how can it be that we have identical software running on devices ranging from 11-inch tablets up through to desktops employing screens well above 24 inches.
There is no question that if one is comparing how a program behaves on a 9.7-inch iPad to how it would work on a 3.5-inch iPhone, there are significant differences. But seriously, going from 3.5 inches to 4.7 inches is an insignificant leap. As such, there is no real fragmenting going on if the iPhone and the Touch are not identical in screen size. They are different devices and the compromises that are required for one product should not be imposed on the other when unnecessary.
It is, by the way, shortsighted to imagine Apple would never change the size of the screen on the iPhone and if the iPhone 6, for example, goes to let's say a 4.1-inch screen and the Touch goes to 4.7, the difference would be even smaller.
I don't think Apple is locked into a 3.5-inch screen on either the iPhone or the Touch. That's not how this is set up and I think what is underestimated is the flexibility of the IOS infrastructure that Apple has established.