I think that is a huge factor. Most come from impoverished rural villages and it's huge social & enviromental change for them. They become homesick and lonely, trapped in a totally different world. I think a significant problem is that they feel like they can't quit and lose a place to live, food to eat, money they save for education or send home to family. And worry that they would be shamed and disgraced and letdown to their family. Suicide was viable option- escape unhappiness and provide nice financial sum to family. Curtailing payments removes the incentive. And since then, the number of suicides have plummeted.
If you came from a backwater village and found out your family could be taken care of for the rest of their lives if you killed yourself, that is a powerful incentive to leap off a building.
I don't believe what independent factory audits say. I only believe what shadowy nameless accusers say to the NYT. Because nobody believes what they hear; they hear what they believe.
who are you going to believe? Me, or your lying eyes*
No. This is not a movement, Foxconn doesn't gain anything by callously abusing workers. Many of the workers work overtime so they have more money to send back to families that live below poverty level. People are not saying anything of the sort, and yes it is awfully stupid of them - except that they want media time not actual solutions.
Let's review what Foxconn looks like:
Hon Hai dba Foxconn is in fact a multinational company and the world's largest maker/assembler of electronic components/original design manufacturer, maintaining 13 factories in China as well as factories in the Czech Republic, Slovakia, India, Mexico and Brazil. They manufacture roughly 40% of the world's consumer electronic products, they are the largest electronics manufacturer in the world, the largest exporter and the largest private employer in China. Foxconn is preferred by a number of companies due to the company's access to the extensive Chinese component supply chain as well as being centrally located to the large network of subcomponent supplies in the region. They employ nearly a million people world-wide.
The following companies are supplied by Foxconn (alphabetically):
Foxconn is the source for many of the components and assembly of Android phones, feature phones for Nokia and Sony/Ericsson, networking devices for Cisco, computer components for Dell, HP, Toshiba, Sony, Acer, in addition to the Apple products lines. In fact the vast majority of the PC product market segment is assembled or manufactured by Foxconn, as well as the vast majority of feature phones for Nokia and Samsung - the two companies that are the majority market suppliers of feature phones.
So while I appreciate righteous indignation against any abuse of power/position/influence, you are obviously poorly informed as to the real impact Foxconn has FAR BEYOND Apple products. Dell and HP together manufacture the vast majority of the world's PCs as compared to the relatively small marketshare that Apple has.
What's amazing is that in all the millions of words and thousands of posts, articles, etc Ive read in the past few weeks, yours is the first that puts Foxconn into context. If I didn't know any better from everything I've read, I'd have the impression that Apple has Foxconn by the balls, can dictate their behaviour, employee wages, operations, etc, and have infinite leverage over Foxconn, because it is a tiny company who would go bankrupt if it did not have Apple's business. Oh, and that Apple can just get up and move suppliers. This is the quality of reporting that we get.
Pegatron now knows something is in the wind and can prepare accordingly, thanks to the media.
So now the excuse from the haters will be "but they had time to prepare, these aren't the 'real' conditions", as their Chinese made underwear rides up their buttcracks.
Pegatron now knows something is in the wind and can prepare accordingly, thanks to the media.
So now the excuse from the haters will be "but they had time to prepare, these aren't the 'real' conditions", as their Chinese made underwear rides up their buttcracks.
It will be an irrelevant cry if it does occur.
The FLA has the ability to inspect irregularly and without warning.
Now, I'd like to talk to the leaders of these petition groups regarding the unethical behavior of printing their petition on a material responsible for killing of millions of trees on this planet, all the while delivering it to a company that embraces 'the paperless environment'.
The FLA has the ability to inspect irregularly and without warning.
Now, I'd like to talk to the leaders of these petition groups regarding the unethical behavior of printing their petition on a material responsible for killing Of millions of trees on this planet, all the while delivering it to a company that embraces 'the paperless environment'.
Say hello to my little frond.
You forgot about the people who made the paper, the printers and the ink in Chinese factories.
I love how you Jobs-knob-gobblers are so quick to believe the findings of a monitoring organization that was created/funded by the companies that are being "monitored".
The iHaters are going to hate hearing about this story. They were sure that iPads were being assembled in darkly lit, dusty rooms as the employees gasped for air. What sort of jackasses would think something like that.
There are no jackasses who think that. You are being unkind to jackasses.
Instead, it is the straw men who think that. And you beat them soundly.
does any one really care the truth? all they wanted is to make a sound bite. the bite left a mark and regardless how hard one can try to reclaim its name, the only thing left on ppl's mind is the first bite.
general public are dumb, really dumb audience. but it is not their fault. it is general public communication mystics. yes, some of us would ask and try to find out a reason out of the first report, but unfortunately, most don't and don't even care about the following events. so the misconception is done and the accused is guilty without trail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IHateScreenNames
So when is the FLA going to visit some American factories? I just left a factory job after 15 years. Part of the reason was that we had to work "mandatory" overtime. A few of us didn't like all the hours and had been asking for 40 hour weeks (typically we were working 50-55) for years only to be given the runaround. The week I gave my notice we were told on a Monday that "starting today" we were required to work 12 hours/day for 5 days then the next week for 6 days. So, one week 60 hours, the next week 72 hours, repeat.
The thing is, it's nothing new. At that company 60 hour weeks were standard when I first started. Some people there have 40+ years of seniority and say that's all they remember.
How come "forced" OT is alright here but not there? All I can think is the Chinese workers are being made to work OT but not being properly compensated.
I love how you Jobs-knob-gobblers are so quick to believe the findings of a monitoring organization that was created/funded by the companies that are being "monitored".
Fucking pathetic idiots.
Hi there Sam
hope this finds you well
Why don't you tell us about the conditions in the factories THAT HAVE NO MONITORING AT ALL and which no doubt are the source of many of the things that are around you now.
Your fucking, pathetic idiotic POST may get you banned, play the ball, not the man.
Why don't you tell us about the conditions in the factories THAT HAVE NO MONITORING AT ALL and which no doubt are the source of many of the things that are around you now.
Your fucking, pathetic idiotic POST may get you banned, play the ball, not the man.
There's a reason why he was the first person on my ignore list.
So if I beat you with a wooden stick instead of a crowbar, you have no right to complain because of how much better you have it? Come on.
Absolutely preposterous analogy. As much as you don't want to accept it, the conditions in these factories are much much better than millions of people living in rural China. Try going out to provinces like Yinchuan, as I have, seeing people eking out living on a 20m wide patch of green beside a river winding through an arid wasteland. China itself doesn't want to be judged on western standards, so why are people expecting Apple to be able to create western living/working conditions in the PRC?
Don't mind Apple ][, he seems to have gone off the deep end over this.
Quote:
I have said Apple is doing better than other companies. This is confirming that and it's great to hear. Continued improvement will keep Foxconn on the right track. There is still a lot to do.
I'd like to see some pressure on Apple's competitors to catch up on this issue.
I love how you Jobs-knob-gobblers are so quick to believe the findings of a monitoring organization that was created/funded by the companies that are being "monitored".
Fucking pathetic idiots.
Being 89 posts deep into a thread vilifying Apple, on a website dedicated to Apple, just demonstrated exactly what 'pathetic' is.
Maybe this news is more to your liking:
If you take a child's crayon (go ask your mum for yours) and draw a vertical line exactly halfway down the head of the robot that is the Android logo, it makes it look like a penis.
Appropriate, don't you think?
And now you also know why Google's design department made the logo so short.
(Remember to wash your ear next time you finish using your phone!)
Even leaving the bizarre redundant phrasing aside, how are we to know that this isn't the equivalent of reviewing a better-than-average Nazi death camp?
Human rights are not a relative issue. "Unacceptable" doesn't become acceptable just because the norm is "intolerable." I don't want to support a company whose factory is merely less soul destroying and deadly than the one next door.
The notion that justice occurs on some relative scale is as wrong as it is sickening. Such insanity is generally the result of well fed, well dressed, people possessed of an overweening sense of superiority and entitlement sitting around a $25K conference table blithely rationalizing how many mentally ill, physically crippled people living in misery is acceptable when maintaining the bottom line. "We're not destroying as many lives as our competitors" is an appalling argument no decent person could entertain without weeping and retching.
If that is indeed what's happening here, for a company with a $100B cash surplus to claim that the working conditions it creates are acceptable because they're less awful than those of some other company is nothing less than obscene. The real bottom line is that if you wouldn't want your own son or daughter working in an environment, it's wrong to ask anyone else's to do so.
I'm a lefty of the pragmatic variety who grew up in the 3rd world and I would say to all those (ignorant but well-meaning) people who complained about "horrible, inhuman" working conditions at Foxconn: You should wish that all factories in the 3rd world were run like Foxconn's Apple operations.
No, you absolutely should not. Just because you are alright with being treated like a rat doesn't mean the rest of the world should take it as a matter of course. You bring shame on your family!
No, you absolutely should not. Just because you are alright with being treated like a rat doesn't mean the rest of the world should take it as a matter of course. You bring shame on your family!
Typed from the comfort of your comfortable office/home. "Treated like a rat"? Get your hand off it.
Comments
I think that is a huge factor. Most come from impoverished rural villages and it's huge social & enviromental change for them. They become homesick and lonely, trapped in a totally different world. I think a significant problem is that they feel like they can't quit and lose a place to live, food to eat, money they save for education or send home to family. And worry that they would be shamed and disgraced and letdown to their family. Suicide was viable option- escape unhappiness and provide nice financial sum to family. Curtailing payments removes the incentive. And since then, the number of suicides have plummeted.
If you came from a backwater village and found out your family could be taken care of for the rest of their lives if you killed yourself, that is a powerful incentive to leap off a building.
I don't believe what independent factory audits say. I only believe what shadowy nameless accusers say to the NYT. Because nobody believes what they hear; they hear what they believe.
who are you going to believe? Me, or your lying eyes*
*Do not try this on your wife.
No. This is not a movement, Foxconn doesn't gain anything by callously abusing workers. Many of the workers work overtime so they have more money to send back to families that live below poverty level. People are not saying anything of the sort, and yes it is awfully stupid of them - except that they want media time not actual solutions.
Let's review what Foxconn looks like:
Hon Hai dba Foxconn is in fact a multinational company and the world's largest maker/assembler of electronic components/original design manufacturer, maintaining 13 factories in China as well as factories in the Czech Republic, Slovakia, India, Mexico and Brazil. They manufacture roughly 40% of the world's consumer electronic products, they are the largest electronics manufacturer in the world, the largest exporter and the largest private employer in China. Foxconn is preferred by a number of companies due to the company's access to the extensive Chinese component supply chain as well as being centrally located to the large network of subcomponent supplies in the region. They employ nearly a million people world-wide.
The following companies are supplied by Foxconn (alphabetically):
Acer, Amazon, Apple, Cisco, Dell, Gateway, HP, Intel, Microsoft, Motorola, Nintendo, Nokia, Samsung, Sony, Sony/Ericsson, Toshiba and Vizio.
Foxconn is the source for many of the components and assembly of Android phones, feature phones for Nokia and Sony/Ericsson, networking devices for Cisco, computer components for Dell, HP, Toshiba, Sony, Acer, in addition to the Apple products lines. In fact the vast majority of the PC product market segment is assembled or manufactured by Foxconn, as well as the vast majority of feature phones for Nokia and Samsung - the two companies that are the majority market suppliers of feature phones.
So while I appreciate righteous indignation against any abuse of power/position/influence, you are obviously poorly informed as to the real impact Foxconn has FAR BEYOND Apple products. Dell and HP together manufacture the vast majority of the world's PCs as compared to the relatively small marketshare that Apple has.
What's amazing is that in all the millions of words and thousands of posts, articles, etc Ive read in the past few weeks, yours is the first that puts Foxconn into context. If I didn't know any better from everything I've read, I'd have the impression that Apple has Foxconn by the balls, can dictate their behaviour, employee wages, operations, etc, and have infinite leverage over Foxconn, because it is a tiny company who would go bankrupt if it did not have Apple's business. Oh, and that Apple can just get up and move suppliers. This is the quality of reporting that we get.
Foxconn did have time to prepare. It wasn't exactly a surprise inspection.
How does this help?
Pegatron now knows something is in the wind and can prepare accordingly, thanks to the media.
So now the excuse from the haters will be "but they had time to prepare, these aren't the 'real' conditions", as their Chinese made underwear rides up their buttcracks.
How does this help?
Pegatron now knows something is in the wind and can prepare accordingly, thanks to the media.
So now the excuse from the haters will be "but they had time to prepare, these aren't the 'real' conditions", as their Chinese made underwear rides up their buttcracks.
It will be an irrelevant cry if it does occur.
The FLA has the ability to inspect irregularly and without warning.
Now, I'd like to talk to the leaders of these petition groups regarding the unethical behavior of printing their petition on a material responsible for killing of millions of trees on this planet, all the while delivering it to a company that embraces 'the paperless environment'.
Say hello to my little frond.
It will be an irrelevant cry if it does occur.
The FLA has the ability to inspect irregularly and without warning.
Now, I'd like to talk to the leaders of these petition groups regarding the unethical behavior of printing their petition on a material responsible for killing Of millions of trees on this planet, all the while delivering it to a company that embraces 'the paperless environment'.
Say hello to my little frond.
You forgot about the people who made the paper, the printers and the ink in Chinese factories.
You forgot about the people who made the paper, the printers and the ink in Chinese factories.
I did too.
Oh, the humanity!
Fucking pathetic idiots.
Right... Because having American jobs is a commie plot. Gotcha.
He's probably complaining about being overpaid for his job when an Indian could do it for half the price.
The iHaters are going to hate hearing about this story. They were sure that iPads were being assembled in darkly lit, dusty rooms as the employees gasped for air. What sort of jackasses would think something like that.
There are no jackasses who think that. You are being unkind to jackasses.
Instead, it is the straw men who think that. And you beat them soundly.
This is great news.
Hopefully this will encourage other young men to become gay.
does any one really care the truth? all they wanted is to make a sound bite. the bite left a mark and regardless how hard one can try to reclaim its name, the only thing left on ppl's mind is the first bite.
general public are dumb, really dumb audience. but it is not their fault. it is general public communication mystics. yes, some of us would ask and try to find out a reason out of the first report, but unfortunately, most don't and don't even care about the following events. so the misconception is done and the accused is guilty without trail.
So when is the FLA going to visit some American factories? I just left a factory job after 15 years. Part of the reason was that we had to work "mandatory" overtime. A few of us didn't like all the hours and had been asking for 40 hour weeks (typically we were working 50-55) for years only to be given the runaround. The week I gave my notice we were told on a Monday that "starting today" we were required to work 12 hours/day for 5 days then the next week for 6 days. So, one week 60 hours, the next week 72 hours, repeat.
The thing is, it's nothing new. At that company 60 hour weeks were standard when I first started. Some people there have 40+ years of seniority and say that's all they remember.
How come "forced" OT is alright here but not there? All I can think is the Chinese workers are being made to work OT but not being properly compensated.
Does anyone know?
I love how you Jobs-knob-gobblers are so quick to believe the findings of a monitoring organization that was created/funded by the companies that are being "monitored".
Fucking pathetic idiots.
Hi there Sam
hope this finds you well
Why don't you tell us about the conditions in the factories THAT HAVE NO MONITORING AT ALL and which no doubt are the source of many of the things that are around you now.
Your fucking, pathetic idiotic POST may get you banned, play the ball, not the man.
Hi there Sam
hope this finds you well
Why don't you tell us about the conditions in the factories THAT HAVE NO MONITORING AT ALL and which no doubt are the source of many of the things that are around you now.
Your fucking, pathetic idiotic POST may get you banned, play the ball, not the man.
There's a reason why he was the first person on my ignore list.
So if I beat you with a wooden stick instead of a crowbar, you have no right to complain because of how much better you have it? Come on.
Absolutely preposterous analogy. As much as you don't want to accept it, the conditions in these factories are much much better than millions of people living in rural China. Try going out to provinces like Yinchuan, as I have, seeing people eking out living on a 20m wide patch of green beside a river winding through an arid wasteland. China itself doesn't want to be judged on western standards, so why are people expecting Apple to be able to create western living/working conditions in the PRC?
Really? The KKK?
Don't mind Apple ][, he seems to have gone off the deep end over this.
I have said Apple is doing better than other companies. This is confirming that and it's great to hear. Continued improvement will keep Foxconn on the right track. There is still a lot to do.
I'd like to see some pressure on Apple's competitors to catch up on this issue.
I love how you Jobs-knob-gobblers are so quick to believe the findings of a monitoring organization that was created/funded by the companies that are being "monitored".
Fucking pathetic idiots.
Being 89 posts deep into a thread vilifying Apple, on a website dedicated to Apple, just demonstrated exactly what 'pathetic' is.
Maybe this news is more to your liking:
If you take a child's crayon (go ask your mum for yours) and draw a vertical line exactly halfway down the head of the robot that is the Android logo, it makes it look like a penis.
Appropriate, don't you think?
And now you also know why Google's design department made the logo so short.
(Remember to wash your ear next time you finish using your phone!)
"way, way above the average of the norm,"
Even leaving the bizarre redundant phrasing aside, how are we to know that this isn't the equivalent of reviewing a better-than-average Nazi death camp?
Human rights are not a relative issue. "Unacceptable" doesn't become acceptable just because the norm is "intolerable." I don't want to support a company whose factory is merely less soul destroying and deadly than the one next door.
The notion that justice occurs on some relative scale is as wrong as it is sickening. Such insanity is generally the result of well fed, well dressed, people possessed of an overweening sense of superiority and entitlement sitting around a $25K conference table blithely rationalizing how many mentally ill, physically crippled people living in misery is acceptable when maintaining the bottom line. "We're not destroying as many lives as our competitors" is an appalling argument no decent person could entertain without weeping and retching.
If that is indeed what's happening here, for a company with a $100B cash surplus to claim that the working conditions it creates are acceptable because they're less awful than those of some other company is nothing less than obscene. The real bottom line is that if you wouldn't want your own son or daughter working in an environment, it's wrong to ask anyone else's to do so.
I'm a lefty of the pragmatic variety who grew up in the 3rd world and I would say to all those (ignorant but well-meaning) people who complained about "horrible, inhuman" working conditions at Foxconn: You should wish that all factories in the 3rd world were run like Foxconn's Apple operations.
No, you absolutely should not. Just because you are alright with being treated like a rat doesn't mean the rest of the world should take it as a matter of course. You bring shame on your family!
http://flawatch.usas.org/about/
FLA is a PR agency for Nike, Reebok, et al. Naturally it will find nothing but unicorns and laughing pixies drinking champagne in the sun.
Fools, the lot of you.
No, you absolutely should not. Just because you are alright with being treated like a rat doesn't mean the rest of the world should take it as a matter of course. You bring shame on your family!
Typed from the comfort of your comfortable office/home. "Treated like a rat"? Get your hand off it.