Tim Cook admits Apple may further converge iOS & OS X, Macs could run on ARM CPUs

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  • melgrossmelgross Posts: 28,597member, moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by paxman View Post


    I am not sure what you are saying here. Except for the last sentence. IOS is a derivative of OSX. In many ways that makes them the same OS but "with different levels", as you put it. So what they are doing is converging the two further visually and functionally.



    But maybe one day when the storage capacity of the iPhone is big enough, and the processors fast enough, The full MacOS will in fact be on the phone (but with an IOS GUI). Then, when you get to a large screen device you can insert or plug in you phone and it basically becomes the computer's cpu and hd. Neat, eh?



    There are a lot if people who have been saying, for several years now, that Apple won't converge the two OS's at all, and that it would be a bad idea. I've been saying, from the beginning, that they will. I've pointed out the origins of both, but that seemed to be thought to be of little significance. Now that Apple beginning (with Lion, mostly) to merge various functions and features, it's becoming more obvious to others that this is indeed happening. But Apple is still, for the most part, telling us that they will remain seperate.



    I don't think that they will remain seperate. I think that even more code will converge. I even think that we will buy an app, likely from the App Store for this to happen, that will install on any of your devices, iOS, or otherwise, but just installing elements that will function on that particular device.



    So we may see Pages install on every Apple device from just one purchase, but just load what will work on that device, be it a desktop, or a Touch. Fat Binaries is something Apple is quite familiar with, and so even if they are still using two processor families, it will work, just loading the binary needed on that platform.



    This will make for a very smooth universe of devices.
  • rcoleman1rcoleman1 Posts: 153member
    Way to go Apple! Always thinking out of the box...innovation at it's peak man.
  • irelandireland Posts: 15,366member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DGNR8 View Post


    I am not a fan of iOS on a Mac PC.



    Making the OS stupid proof.



    This only shows how out of touch you are with Apple. It's got nothing to do with being stupid proof and everything to do with great design.
  • sockrolidsockrolid Posts: 2,515member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    [...] "We think about everything," Cook said. "We don't close things off."



    What he said: We think about everything.



    What he meant: You're damn right we're going to use ARM chips in Macs.



    There are far too many directly quantifiable advantages to switching to ARM. E.g. lower CPU chip cost, lower power consumption, mechanical simplicity (no cooling fans), fewer components, etc. But the priceless, intangible advantage is freedom from Intel and its symbiosis with Microsoft. Apple suffered for many years during its unhappy co-dependence on slow-moving Motorola and IBM for their PowerPC chips.



    The only major roadblock to transitioning, say, the MacBook Air line to ARM-based chips, is that no ARM chips have 64-bit data paths. Yet. ARM announced the ARMv8 64-bit architecture last October, and they expect to release the full spec this year. But once Apple releases a 64-bit ARM SoC, there will be no reason to stay with Intel on the consumer MacBooks.
  • umrk_labumrk_lab Posts: 550member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post




    ....Programs, apps, or whatever they will be called will have each more sophisticated, and larger device see a superset of the feature set of the device below it, thus allowing a smooth increase in power where appropriate.....




    Indeed .. Plus the fact that there is a preferred input device/mean of communication for each of the devices of Apple's world : voice for iPhones, gestures for iPad, mouse/keyboard actions for Macs (although not totally exclusive, of course)
  • dgnr8dgnr8 Posts: 196member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by paxman View Post


    You have to read what he said intelligently. IOS will not become the new MacOS. They will converge further - obviously and surely not a bad thing?



    First off I have intelligence and 25 years of IT, VM and Data Center experience and have watched a lot of MFG's do this same thing not just Microsoft ,so if you would be so kind as to refrain from taking pop shots and being condescending, please.



    You say that iOS will not become the MacOS, how do you know this?



    There is more evidence that they are moving MacOS in the direction of iOS than not.



    They are replacing apps with in OS X with iOS versions slowly converting OS X to iOS via a slow and methodical transition.



    However, for arguments sake I will give you your premiss that the two OS's will remain separate.



    They are still dumbing down MacOS which is "obviously and surely a bad thing".





    Go ahead and toast me up.



    I hate to say this but maybe it is time for an OS X Lite or home version.
  • smalltimewinesmalltimewine Posts: 2member
    Overly sensational reporting, AI. The WSJ implies nothing of the sort. Mr. Cook's response is a classic standard Apple non-answer that anyone familiar with the investor calls has heard a million times. He'd respond the same if asked if Apple was going to go for a moon-shot. "We don't rule it out".
  • irelandireland Posts: 15,366member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Yeah, we'll eventually have a multitouch desktop OS that is operated in a way as different from the current keyboard/mouse paradigm as adding the mouse was from the keyboard/screen paradigm.



    You could use the word eventually about everything. But ultimately the keyboard and mouse seems to be still the most efficient way to do certain tasks, and for the ones where it's not you have devices like phones and tablets. I don't see what you are talking about happening for a long time, if ever. I don't see touch screen desktop computers being more efficient. That's what it comes down to. I see tablets in the next 10 years or thereabouts killing off laptops, possibly, but not desktops. But then when you think about that what would journalist out-in-the-field and people who need to type a lot and do many tasks at once while no the move use? A touch screen phone or tablet? Probably not. These things are nigh impossible to predict.



    I do know one prediction that is destined to happen however; the integrating TV set-top-box and games console. In 15 years people with laugh at the idea that you need three or four separate devices to do all of those things, and I see Apple with the best chance to conquer that market.
  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    There are a lot if people who have been saying, for several years now, that Apple won't converge the two OS's at all, and that it would be a bad idea. I've been saying, from the beginning, that they will.



    I don't see that happening or how it makes sense. Why do I need to have the iOS UIs on my Mac or have the Mac Aqua UI hidden in within every iDevice? You don't there is simply no need for them to converse into one OS.



    Now convergent aspects across their different OSes is another story and how iOS started. They scaled back Mac OS X to a core version of OS X that all system could use then diverged iOS from that. They've since shared back and forth along the way with the commonality of iOS-based devices clearly being pushed to the Mac to make it more familiar.
  • mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Yeah, we'll eventually have a multitouch desktop OS that is operated in a way as different from the current keyboard/mouse paradigm as adding the mouse was from the keyboard/screen paradigm. I buy that.



    Humans invented tools because killing wooly mammoths with your bare hands was a tad clumsy.



    Likewise tools such as a mouse or a stylus, gives you finer control than using your fingers alone.



    The OS may evolve the use of finger gestures over time but I seriously doubt it will become the primary input method for anything other than flipping and scrolling digital pages.



    The reason it makes sense on a mobile device is because you are likely to misplace your stylus, however, it makes the usability dumbed down to the lowest common denominator.



    I think a mouse or stylus plus a keyboard are necessary features on a desktop computer. Not that a touch pad is totally useless, but is not really suitable for advanced computing.
  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    You could use the word eventually about everything.



    LOL That's funny considering you've been talking about an Apple HDTV for 7 years.
  • paulmjohnsonpaulmjohnson Posts: 1,367member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DGNR8 View Post


    They are still dumbing down MacOS which is "obviously and surely a bad thing".





    Go ahead and toast me up.



    I hate to say this but maybe it is time for an OS X Lite or home version.



    Sorry to cut your post, just did it to save space.



    I'm interested in the point that they are dumbing down MacOS. In what ways do you think they are? I honestly can't think of anything I can't do now that I could do 8 years ago when I switched to Mac. Granted there are things that I no longer do. I don't do much in the way of manual backup anymore for example, since Time Machine is doing it for me. I don't have to goto websites to look for application updates anymore, because the Mac App Store tells me.



    I don't see that as dumbing down. I see that as them fixing some of the frankly ridiculous things that computers should have been able to do for themselves, but could not.
  • irelandireland Posts: 15,366member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    LOL That's funny considering you've been talking about an Apple HDTV for 7 years.



    Haha, I knew someone would bring that up. Do you disagree that Apple is working on an integrated TV, though? Steve even hinted at D a couple of years ago that the iPhone and iPad were more important. So it's not as if they had no interest in doing a TV, it's just that they are too focused-a-company to attempt too many tasks at once. TV is their next main area of focus. Besides, the main thing that's slowing down that project is the fact that they are finding it near impossible to convince the powers that be to give them a subscription content deal.



    My main wishes for the TV after they get the subscription deal in place (and no question they should buy the Sky Sports rights) are a bluetooth remote control, no HDMI ports deliberately, Pioneer Kuro quality built-in speakers, and a huge one for me is a dedicated physical games controller. If they try to pawn the iPad to iPhone off as touch screen game controllers for gaming on iTV I will be highly disappointed.



    The day my living room and entertainment setup is one TV (with all content via a subscription package), no extra boxes or wires, one TV remote and separate dedicated hardware gaming controllers is the day we can welcome the next 50 years of the living room.
  • paulmjohnsonpaulmjohnson Posts: 1,367member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    Humans invented tools because killing wooly mammoths with your bare hands was a tad clumsy.



    Likewise tools such as a mouse or a stylus, gives you finer control than using your fingers alone.



    The OS may evolve the use of finger gestures over time but I seriously doubt it will become the primary input method for anything other than flipping and scrolling digital pages.



    The reason it makes sense on a mobile device is because you are likely to misplace your stylus, however, it makes the usability dumbed down to the lowest common denominator.



    I think a mouse or stylus plus a keyboard are necessary features on a desktop computer. Not that a touch pad is totally useless, but is not really suitable for advanced computing.



    I wonder what might be possible with something like Kinect when married to interfacing with a desktop type computer.



    One thing is for sure, at some point something will come along that we hadn't thought of, and it will completely surprise us, in the same way the mouse did all those years ago.
  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post


    Sorry to cut your post, just did it to save space.



    I'm interested in the point that they are dumbing down MacOS. In what ways do you think they are?



    They renamed Address Book to Contacts and iCal to Calander. I guess they thought we were too stupid to know these apps did the same thing between Mac OS and iOS¡



    Seriously, I can't understand why so many can't see why Apple is making Mac OS more familiar to the average user. So many comments across so many sites that Mountain Lion is proof that Apple doesn't care about the Mac when in fact it's the opposite. They are showing they want to capitalize on their iOS popularity by making the Mac more familiar to non-Mac users.
  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    Haha, I knew someone would bring that up. Do you disagree that Apple is working on an integrated TV, though?



    I assume I was only short list of name, too.
  • qualarqualar Posts: 72member
    Full OS on ARM. Who is copying who now?
  • dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 11,307member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I will continue to say that I do see an eventual convergence of the two. Not in the way MS is going with Win 8, that's just a mess, and is a result of them having no credible OS for tablets, and thus, no presence in that space. So they have to force the Metro UI on their users all at once.



    Apple doesn't have that problem of course, and so they can take their time.



    "I don't really think anything Microsoft does puts pressure on Apple," said Mr. Cook, who said Apple is focused on building the best product and the pressure on the company is "self-induced."



    Quote:

    But what I see is a graduated response from them. In other words, we'll see the same OS, but it will have differing levels depending on the device it will run upon. The simplest will be for phones and Touches, then more will be seen on tablets, and finally, everything will be available on more traditional computers.



    This will make for an easy transition between the varying levels of devices, as people should expect. No one will want to fully edit a long, complex document on a phone or Touch, but they may want to look through parts of it and make some notes, and a few corrections. On the iPad, they would want to do more, and should be able to, when on the road. But when used on a notebook or desktop, the full ability should be available, along with all the notes and corrections from the other devices.



    The same thing might be done with Keynote, for example. The entire presentation could easily be done on a "computer", or possible even on an iPad, but in reviewing it on their phone, from which the presentation may be given, using Airplay through a projector, they may want to alter backgrounds, and a few other minor matters at the last moment.



    Programs, apps, or whatever they will be called will have each more sophisticated, and larger device see a superset of the feature set of the device below it, thus allowing a smooth increase in power where appropriate.



    Apple is doing this now, with what we are seeing in Mountain Lion. It just makes sense.



    Absolutely spot on!



    In a way, it is an extension of the "universal app" -- where the OS and apps with a single code base (and possible a single "package" will download and install/configure only what is necessary on a particular device -- from an iPod to a Mac -- and anything below, above or in between.



  • paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,083member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DGNR8 View Post


    First off I have intelligence and 25 years of IT, VM and Data Center experience and have watched a lot of MFG's do this same thing not just Microsoft ,so if you would be so kind as to refrain from taking pop shots and being condescending, please.



    You say that iOS will not become the MacOS, how do you know this?



    There is more evidence that they are moving MacOS in the direction of iOS than not.



    They are replacing apps with in OS X with iOS versions slowly converting OS X to iOS via a slow and methodical transition.



    However, for arguments sake I will give you your premiss that the two OS's will remain separate.



    They are still dumbing down MacOS which is "obviously and surely a bad thing".





    Go ahead and toast me up.



    I hate to say this but maybe it is time for an OS X Lite or home version.



    I have already posted in other threads about this so sorry for repeating.... but Mac OS and IOS are, afaik, essentially the same core OS. IOS being a derivative of OSX. They are built upon the same foundations.



    But the Mac experience is so different that it would make no sense to make it limited to an IOS GUI. Just because you are able to view iMovie in Full Screen mode, it doesn't mean that it is dumbed down or IOS like. The menus are all still available. Menus that I think it unlikely will become available in the IOS version of the App for obvious reasons.



    Apple is not replacing OSX with IOS, that is the wrong way to look at it.



    How is OSX being dumbed down? Give me a few examples of things you can no longer do as a result of dumbing down.



    Re OSX lite, there already is such a thing and it is called SimpleFinder. It is built into the OS and can be invoked through settings. It doesn't turn OSX into IOS but it is a simplified view of the OS with limited permissions. Maybe Apple will make Simple Finder look like IOS. I think that would be a great idea, personally.



    Oh, and your first point... my apologies. Pot shots uncalled for. I just get a little jumpy when I see this IOS / OSX alarmism. .
  • dgnr8dgnr8 Posts: 196member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    I don't see that happening or how it makes sense. Why do I need to have the iOS UIs on my Mac or have the Mac Aqua UI hidden in within every iDevice? You don't there is simply no need for them to converse into one OS.



    Now convergent aspects across their different OSes is another story and how iOS started. They scaled back Mac OS X to a core version of OS X that all system could use then diverged iOS from that. They've since shared back and forth along the way with the commonality of iOS-based devices clearly being pushed to the Mac to make it more familiar.



    I can see your point
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