Mountain Lion brings new iOS-like file handling, iCloud App Library features

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Comments

  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by VanFruniken View Post


    allow the iOS user, when she is on the move AND HAPPENS TO THINK OF a document stored in her "on the Mac" file system, to browse that filesystem and to retrieve the file.



    You're talking about Back To My Mac from iOS. That might happen but for now there are plenty of apps that can VNC into your home PCs.



    Quote:

    P.S., in response to those who don't understand that a document may need to be indeed accessible from different programs: there are situations where a document is created and edited by one application, but then serves as input, in unaltered form, to another program.

    This should be simple to do, not with a convoluted export ("Share") command.

    Same thing as above, you may only think of needing the document in another application, later, when you are on the move, on another iDevice.



    This isn't an issue. You don't choose Export to save to iCloud. In fact, if you export you have to save it locally, then you have to choose Edit » Open and drag it into iCloud to save a copy there for that app.



    Note I said copy. You can save a new document to iCloud as the default location but if you save it to disk the first time then you'll have to copy it to iCloud, not move it. You can then delete the original and do all your editing via iCloud if you wish but the system is set up to keep local copies in place.



    As for the Share command that's available for any iCloud or On My Mac items. It's simply highlighting file(s) and then choosing how you want to share it just like in iPhoto or iOS apps. It's the opposite of convoluted.
  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kingsmuse View Post


    Could someone please explain to me why Apple has such a hatred for the hierarchical file system?



    Could someone please explain to me why people think Apple has removed the hierarchical file system?
  • charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,063member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by maciekskontakt View Post


    Partitioning documents by applications they belong to had been proven to be foolish in Windows years ago. This smells like trying to monopolize document use.



    Can we see more stupid ideas from Apple like this?




    Giving users choices isn't stupid. If you don't like the iOS way, choose not to use it.



    Hopefully this will swing the other way and we'll get a common library option in ios
  • dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 11,161member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kingsmuse View Post


    Could someone please explain to me why Apple has such a hatred for the hierarchical file system?



    How is this app/file sandbox even remotely superior to the current file system?



    I know, railing against change, I just like my change to be superior to the current method.



    I don't think Apple has anything against the hierarchical file system... they are just looking for a better solution -- one that handles a large number of files -- as well as a few files.



    Remember, the GUI that Apple licensed from Xerox had a single window on the display... Apple experimented and found a better way.





    There are ways in which Apple can resolve the sandbox/share file standoff.



    1) apps could register with the system on the types of files they can handle and which they'd like access to



    2) an app when creating a file could make it private, accessible RO, accessible RW, approval by app, passcode, etc..



    The OS, then provides access to any files an app is allowed to see...



    This would require some sort of file presentation (search, folders, smart collections, etc.) so the user could have easy access without burdensome navigation and knowledge of the file system.





    I suspect Apple has some pretty competent people working on this and that will "do it right" when they deliver a solution.





    MS seems to be creating a bastardized system of partially rewritten x86 Windows Explorer and Windows Desktop for WOA...





    My bets are with Apple!

  • gustavgustav Posts: 799member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kingsmuse View Post


    Could someone please explain to me why Apple has such a hatred for the hierarchical file system?



    How is this app/file sandbox even remotely superior to the current file system?

    .



    Apple doesn't - the average consumer does - because they don't understand it. If not for Open Recent, Spotlight, and open dialog boxes defaulting to the last place, People would lose their files all the time. It's also why a lot of people save all their files on the desktop.



    It's hard to believe but the hierarchical file system confuses a lot of people.



    This sandbox makes it easier for novices to find their files. If you don't like it, nobody is forcing it on you.
  • irelandireland Posts: 15,030member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by maciekskontakt View Post


    Partitioning documents by applications they belong to had been proven to be foolish in Windows years ago. This smells like trying to monopolize document use.



    Can we see more stupid ideas from Apple like this?



    The company transformed radically from what I saw in 2004/05 when I joined bandwagon after dumping Windows and Linux.



    Creating a cult out of technology corporation has never worked well for consumers. I have another proof now.



    Oh and BTW smuggling agendas under cover of "better security" is no the best appraoch either. This does not have anything to do with better security. Those who know it will hack it soon one way or the other, but we will be living in strict and inflexible world sharing documents only the way Apple allows us.



    In my opinion everything you said there is wrong, but that's only my opinion.
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    OS X Mountain Lion brings a new document handling experience to the Mac platform that offers an iOS-like, iCloud-based alternative to the conventional file system.




    By the time of OSXI/Bobcat, the conventional file system will be a thing of the past on Macs. Or sooner.
  • notrsnotrs Posts: 40member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post




    6) First of all, this is designed for the consumer that wants to have select files they can view and edit across devices with ease. No need to create PDFs and email first or some other usable by complex method. You can still do those so your "sky is falling" complaints that Apple has somehow removed other options is unjustified. Secondly, if you are a "professional" using a Mac that is connected to network shares then you'd just access all the items you want with On My Mac as it connects to Finder that also connects to your network which is exactly what "professionals" would use.



    So Finder should now be considered a "Pro App"?
  • mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mrstep View Post


    At least it looks like that view is optional. Talk about finding a way to make machines useless to anyone who does real work though - hope they realize they better keep the filesystem visible in the future for non-iOS level users.



    You know they already took away the ability to view most of the filesystem with version 10.0. You can still see the system files if you are a professional and know a few shell commands.



    As others have mentioned it is a terrible idea to display all of the same file types in the same window when you are trying to find one file in particular. Let's see I need to edit index.html. Oh golly, I have 300 of those. Sort of like if you did a search on that file name. It is better to look for the site name then the folder name and so forth. You will find the file you are looking for and not worry that you might accidentally open the wrong one. Of course which application is going to open html files. The browser? That won't work for editing them.



    I think we need to wait to see how it all pans out. Clearly they won't release it as broken as I have just described it.
  • dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 11,161member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AppleInsider

    OS X Mountain Lion brings a new document handling experience to the Mac platform that offers an iOS-like, iCloud-based alternative to the conventional file system.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post


    By the time of OSXI/Bobcat, the conventional file system will be a thing of the past on Macs. Or sooner.



    In Mountain Lion, Apple presents a new file dialog with two options: the conventional file system under "On My Mac," and an App Library, an iOS-like depiction of the app's own iCloud files, portrayed similar to iOS apps, with the same ability to be organized into "Folders."



    RTFA... Read The Fuckin' Article!



  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    In Mountain Lion, Apple presents a new file dialog with two options: the conventional file system under "On My Mac," and an App Library, an iOS-like depiction of the app's own iCloud files, portrayed similar to iOS apps, with the same ability to be organized into "Folders."



    RTFA... Read The Fuckin' Article!











    Right. It is not going to happen yet. Not in Mountain Lion. I made that pretty clear, or so I thought.
  • 2oh12oh1 Posts: 465member
    I must be missing the part where this looks like a good idea. Why complicate the OS by adding a second system for saving documents? This only leads to confusion when looking for a file. This is one of the ways a desktop OS is not a mobile OS.
  • mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    In Mountain Lion, Apple presents a new file dialog with two options: the conventional file system under "On My Mac," and an App Library, an iOS-like depiction of the app's own iCloud files, portrayed similar to iOS apps, with the same ability to be organized into "Folders."



    RTFA... Read The Fuckin' Article!







    I have never used iCloud so I really don't understand how it works. How many copies of a file are there? Is there one on each device as well as in iCloud which get synced whenever it is modified? I'm not sure how auto save, auto sync and iCloud interact. How does the iOS-like file display work if you are not connected to iCloud for some reason like no wifi or cell service? I wonder with ML do you see your local files in that new format or is that only for actual iCloud files?
  • dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 11,161member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 2oh1 View Post


    I must be missing the part where this looks like a good idea. Why complicate the OS by adding a second system for saving documents? This only leads to confusion when looking for a file. This is one of the ways a desktop OS is not a mobile OS.



    Some people in a household Share a common Mac. While some have needs for a robust file system -- others may not.



    Just like you setup some users to not hide the dock containing the few apps they use, you could set them up to use a easy to understand iOS-like filesystem -- especially if it mirrors the file system on their iDevices.



    Apple is very good at adding function while reducing complexity!



  • freediverxfreediverx Posts: 1,325member
    These screens always look great in demos, but what does file management look like when you have several thousand files, with similar names and thumbnails, and no way to group in folders or list in detail view so you can read the whole filename and sort by name, date, etc.?



    Sure, if you know exactly what you're looking for you can enter a few characters in the search box and usually find what you want. But this approach to file management doesn't work when you want to browse a large collection of files and get a sense of what's there.
  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 2oh1 View Post


    I must be missing the part where this looks like a good idea. Why complicate the OS by adding a second system for saving documents? This only leads to confusion when looking for a file. This is one of the ways a desktop OS is not a mobile OS.



    You mean the complexity of making sure it's not seen as a replacement for the standard hierarchical system by giving a very distinct look and feel that can't be confused with Finder and looks very familiar to what you see on iOS?



    You say it's too complicated that Apple offers a way to use files to be used across devices easily yet think it's less complicated than having to use Dropbox or Mail or iTunes with multiple copy/paste moves that will then have to be repeated to move the files back. That really makes sense to you?
  • freediverxfreediverx Posts: 1,325member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    Hmmm....



    Do you believe that all the techie developers, Apple Employees, Power Users, etc. needs will be satisfied with the iOS file system [as we currently have access to it]?



    Do you believe that all these users will be forced to stay on a back release of OS X -- just to have/use hierarchical folders?



    Do you believe that users of Apple's latest Pro apps which use an hierarchical folder file system, will be forced to run on a back release of OS X?



    Do you know that iOS has the same underlying hierarchical folder file system as OS X?



    Think about it!





    I believe one of the things that ML offers is greater ease of use to the typical, non-techie user.



    One way to do that is to hide confusing capabilities by default.





    That does not mean that the hidden capability cannot easily be exposed for use by the techie or power user.





    I suppose, we could configure the Mac to boot in Cmd-S single-user mode, watch the screen scroll and then fsck, boot...



    Or maybe we'll just have a System Preference setting that allows: Show Finder/HFS











    This system is only easy for newbies when they're starting out and have a handful of files to browse through. Check back with those newbies months later when they've accumulated thousands of files and see how well they can find what they're looking for. If Apple feels that this is a better way to handle files they should demo the concept with more realistic file collections.



    When you're working in the real world, you need to be able to group files of different types together based on the project at hand. It makes no sense to continuously have to hop across five different "collections" in search of the right combination of files you need. Folders and hierachical file systems may be confusing to beginners, but there's no other way to efficiently deal with files in real life.



    Huge Apple proponent here. I "get" it. But I don't think their solution to file management is viable for getting any real work done.
  • hummerphummerp Posts: 17member
    I use so few of Apple work apps that I'll just keep on keeping on with Photo Mechanic, Lightroom, Word, PhotoShop, Toast, etc...and store my critical documents on DropBox so I can access and share what I want from where I want.
  • freediverxfreediverx Posts: 1,325member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    Not an issue because every single file extension is only paired with one app as the default. So if your Mac has switched all .MP3s to open with QuickTime X instead of iTunes they will show up as QuickTime X apps. At least that's how I understand it.





    Right, but what happens when you want to browse a collection of image or video files which require different apps depending on the file? I want to open PSD files in Photoshop but I expect to browse them in the same view as JPGs which open in Preview.



    There's an easy way to open a file with different apps, but a file system that only shows files associated with a single app at a time is idiotic.
  • slurpyslurpy Posts: 4,391member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kingsmuse View Post


    Could someone please explain to me why Apple has such a hatred for the hierarchical file system?



    How is this app/file sandbox even remotely superior to the current file system?



    I know, railing against change, I just like my change to be superior to the current method.



    Yeah, Apple has such a hatred for this system, that they have continued to include it in every single one of their desktop OS version, will be in the next version, and no doubt the ones after that for the forseable future. Providing an easily accessible and visible OPTION to save things to the cloud, which will then sync seamlessly and automatically to other devices means that they 'hate' the current system? Try to see 2 feet beyond your own nose, and realize not everyone uses and undertands computers like you do. I can see tis being infinitely useful for so many people I know.



    Or are you saying that Apple hates the hierarchical file system because they don't include itn in their mobile OS? You mean, this same system that both major mobile competitors ALSO DON'T include? Last I checked neither Android nor Win7 phone included any type of filesystem visible to the user.



    Next time you compose a post try to inject some rationality based on reality.
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