Factory workers claim Foxconn hid underage employees before FLA inspection

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  • zozmanzozman Posts: 387member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post


    Oh... So you draw the line at fithy water... Hmmmm. So, Be glad your not in the shitter and dont complain.... Or... While boredom seems mundane, if there is an easy low cost solution to help alleviate, why not? I admit it's a moving goal post...wants and needs never ending. But that's life... Continuously striving to make things better for yourself and hopefully your fellow human being... No?



    I will respond with an emotion, it can say with one look what i could say to you in a long reply.



    <---- not directed at striving to make things better for people, it is directed at the high horse simple minded internet talk that dribbled out of the sphincter on your lower face.

    i didnt draw the line anywhere, i asumed (foolish of me) that people might read & use their own mind, do i need to do a list of things that are far worse then being bored? not just filthy water, its called perspective, go to a place that has bad conditions then you might have some idea, in life & this subject, do i really need to do that? is a list needed?, I should be asleep, if i seem rude, its only because its very late here & im sleepy, however i have no issue setting the feeble minded straight, its like charity for me, doing a service to the online community here

    here is a few suggestions, have a point, have a reason why apart from something you would see on a saturday morning cartoon, dont try & troll me, as you may have noticed, i have no issue decimating troll types, Sorry if i offended you, I only snapped you because of the arrogant tone & pointless reply you wrote, have a nice day.
  • boeyc15boeyc15 Posts: 945member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LTMP View Post


    Let's not forget that Apple has been doing these audits and helping the workers for years.



    It seems to me that slacktivists are attacking Apple even though they are the only ones actually doing anything to help the factory workers.



    In fact, if it weren't for Apple's release of the full audits, most of this would never have come to light.



    These things came WAY before Apple went public with results. Apple does this out of there own good heart... Or the ACTIVISTs.... Why sure... It's Apples good heart, what was I thinking.... Geesh.
  • asciiascii Posts: 5,363member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by focher View Post


    You're right about one thing. Those jobs aren't coming back. But you could get rid of all the unions, regulations, and taxes yet the jobs still aren't coming back.



    Those precise jobs might not come back, but enough jobs for everyone would.



    Under pure capitalism, price adjusts until the market clears. That includes the labor market, so under pure capitalism there is never any unemployment. Unemployed people are an uncleared market caused by interference in price adjustment by regulations, taxes, unions etc.
  • carmissimocarmissimo Posts: 837member
    The sad part of all of this is that it wouldn't take a dramatic increase in the price we all pay for our toys to dramatically improve the lives of the people who assemble them. It is unfortunate that for all the rhetoric we love to put out on issues like this I suspect that a disheartening percentage would rather pay $50 less for their next new iPad or iPhone than have working conditions elevated to reasonable levels.



    As for unions causing our lives to be improved to the point where corporations have been, as it were, forced to look elsewhere for their labour, let's consider the big picture. The focus should be on making our lives better, not on helping a small number of entrepreneurs become obscenely wealthy. If most of us were to live like slaves, considering that there is potential for us to all live like kings, how incredibly idiotic as a species would we appear to be.



    While unions have their flaws and sometimes impede progress, to suggest that unions are the root of all evil is exceedingly short-sighted. In the early stages of the industrial revolution we saw just how heartless the process can be. I recall reading about how at the plant where my father had worked, before his time, working conditions were beyond unacceptable. When ownership was generous enough to lower the working day from 16 hours to 12 hours, a break to eat something was eliminated. Instead, for a few minutes production was brought down to a reduced rate to allow workers to eat something while they worked. This is the sort of absurd nonsense that caused unions to flourish in the first place.



    None of us working today in industrialized nations like the US and Canada have the slightest idea what it is like to be a member of a workforce that is brutally exploited. We take eight-hour days for granted, expect vacation time, think making enough money to maintain a high standard of living is a God-given right. Our predecessors didn't stand for having their lives ruined by corporate greed, which is why unions rose up, doing so with an initial helping of violence that accentuates just how bad it can get if we give corporations a free ride.



    It is deeply disappointing that long ago a generation rose up to end the tyranny of corporate excess, some even paying with their lives, and yet now we have some who would rather somebody's else's life is not improved in order to get a deal on a luxury item.



    Look, I do understand that part of the problem is that most of us have zero faith in corporate types. If a $50 additional charge on a device could undeniably go 100 per cent into the pockets of underpaid employees, I would hope most of us would be generous enough to be happy to pay that additional fee. I suspect, though, that the perception would be that a lot of that money would wind up in the pockets of the few and not go to the people that should get it.



    What a sad, miserable mess and an indictment of humanity all around.
  • boeyc15boeyc15 Posts: 945member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zozman View Post


    I will respond with an emotion, it can say with one look what i could say to you in a long reply.



    <---- not directed at striving to make things better for people, it is directed at the high horse simple minded internet talk that dribbled out of the sphincter on your lower face.

    i didnt draw the line anywhere, i asumed (foolish of me) that people might read & use their own mind, do i need to do a list of things that are far worse then being bored? not just filthy water, its called perspective, go to a place that has bad conditions then you might have some idea, in life & this subject, do i really need to do that? is a list needed?, I should be asleep, if i seem rude, its only because its very late here & im sleepy, however i have no issue setting the feeble minded straight, its like charity for me, doing a service to the online community here

    here is a few suggestions, have a point, have a reason why apart from something you would see on a saturday morning cartoon, dont try & troll me, as you may have noticed, i have no issue decimating troll types, Sorry if i offended you, I only snapped you because of the arrogant tone & pointless reply you wrote, have a nice day.



    Reviewing your prior posts and this one says it all. Get some sleep.
  • jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post


    Here's a question, if Foxconn gets thousands of applicants at a time and they're only able to hire a fraction of them, why would they need to hire anyone who is underage?



    Obviously, there's no reason. If there are underage workers there (which hasn't been established, btw), it is clearly an oversight or the employee lied. That's one of the things that Apple audits for.



    I think it's interesting that people are up in arms about a few alleged underaged workers in a Chinese factory, but no one is picketing McDonald's or Sears for 16 and 17 year old workers in the U.S.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carmissimo View Post


    The sad part of all of this is that it wouldn't take a dramatic increase in the price we all pay for our toys to dramatically improve the lives of the people who assemble them. It is unfortunate that for all the rhetoric we love to put out on issues like this I suspect that a disheartening percentage would rather pay $50 less for their next new iPad or iPhone than have working conditions elevated to reasonable levels.



    I think that's backwards. It doesn't take ANY increase in pay to improve the lives of the people who work there. They're already benefiting from the fact that they have a job which pays well above local standards.



    If you're old enough to remember the situation in Japan 50 years ago, it wasn't all that different. People working for what we would consider to be horrible wages, long hours, rigid work rules, etc. Over time, the workers became more 'western' and started taking vacations while salaries increased to much closer to U.S. levels. Standard of living improved dramatically.



    The same thing is already happening in China. Hours are being reduced, wages are up, and working conditions are improving as they find that the demand for workers exceeds the supply in some areas. It's simply a matter of time.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post


    Apple should open an office inside Foxconn with Apple & FLA staff permanently based there. That way they could walk around daily making sure everything is ok. Add a hotline for employees to call in confidence to report anything and Foxconn would not be able to get away with any abuses for long before Apple caught up with them. Much better than planned inspections where Foxconn can easily hide things.



    Apple already has a presence in Foxconn. You can be sure that there are Apple employees in the plant almost all the time.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    Foxconn should raise their pay to something decent



    They're already paying considerably more than other companies in the area - which is why people are lining up looking for jobs.
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    So tell me why 17yo can't work in China and how Weir talked to a 17yo if they are not allowed to work and were apparently locked away from the investigators.





    17 year olds not allowed to work in China? where did you get that?



    Quote:

    Apple's supplier code of conduct allows for workers between 16 and 18 years old if they are legally allowed to work





    "Locked away"? You made that up out of whole cloth.



    Quote:

    "All underage workers, between 16-17 years old, were not assigned any overtime work and some of them were even sent to other departments," Chan reported the workers as having said.



  • irelandireland Posts: 15,540member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zozman View Post


    .....that said enough but i think ill need to spell it out of you, boredom...Are you kidding me?



    Nope, I'm not. They are bored and their employer needs to help alleviate it. It's simple really. If you had half of a brain you could work it out.
  • irelandireland Posts: 15,540member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    They're already paying considerably more than other companies in the area - which is why people are lining up looking for jobs.



    Bla bla bla. That's because they are making 10X what the other factories are making.
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    The facts are that the pay at Foxconn is good for the type of work involved and no-one is forced to work there against their will.








    According to the article:



    Quote:

    mainstream media outlets have left out an important issue that should be under the spotlight: involuntary labor



  • island hermitisland hermit Posts: 6,217member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    Nope, I'm not. They are bored and their employer needs to help alleviate it. It's simple really. If you had half of a brian you could work it out.



    Brian who?
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 40,290member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post


    According to the article:



    I'm not sure I buy that.



    "APPLE/ANY AMERICAN COMPANY EVER USES SLAVE LABOR" is a much more enticing title than crap about workers' conditions. If they had ANY sort of evidence for it (heck, even if they didn't but thought they could get some), that would have been headlines, not crap about conditions.
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by sunilraman View Post


    I'm not mocking you when I say, Apple should just buy a country and make that their new manufacturing/ everything HQ. That way they don't have to deal with all this nonsense. While it sounds disturbing, who wouldn't want to live in Applezistan?



    Apple is likely saving up its $100,000,000,000.00 to do just that.



    Apple needs Sovereignty. Then nothing it does will be illegal. And if some pissant little market doesn't like what Apple does, they could call out the Marines.
  • carmissimocarmissimo Posts: 837member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Obviously, there's no reason. If there are underage workers there (which hasn't been established, btw), it is clearly an oversight or the employee lied. That's one of the things that Apple audits for.



    I think it's interesting that people are up in arms about a few alleged underaged workers in a Chinese factory, but no one is picketing McDonald's or Sears for 16 and 17 year old workers in the U.S.







    I think that's backwards. It doesn't take ANY increase in pay to improve the lives of the people who work there. They're already benefiting from the fact that they have a job which pays well above local standards.



    If you're old enough to remember the situation in Japan 50 years ago, it wasn't all that different. People working for what we would consider to be horrible wages, long hours, rigid work rules, etc. Over time, the workers became more 'western' and started taking vacations while salaries increased to much closer to U.S. levels. Standard of living improved dramatically.



    The same thing is already happening in China. Hours are being reduced, wages are up, and working conditions are improving as they find that the demand for workers exceeds the supply in some areas. It's simply a matter of time.







    Apple already has a presence in Foxconn. You can be sure that there are Apple employees in the plant almost all the time.







    They're already paying considerably more than other companies in the area - which is why people are lining up looking for jobs.



    I hope you are right that there will be improvements simply because that's how it goes but on the other hand if attention on the way these people are treated speeds up the process, this is a good thing. I think the key to stability is making sure the most people possible have enough to lose that they will prefer the status quo.



    I have personally profited from Apple's success but I am pleased that Apple is now under pressure to step up on this matter. Thinking that we should just not care because commerce makes life better with no input from us whatsoever is a mistaken notion. Corporations do not upgrade their compensation to employees on a whim. They need to be pressured into doing it and that pressure includes the public getting behind making improvements. If there is no public concern expressed over this matter, it will slow down the rate of improvement. If this speeding up of the process means we end up paying a little more, I'll pay more gladly.
  • mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,650member, moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Better yet, why not Apple subsidize my iPad purchase, and give it to me for free? After they spend just $800, they'll still have $99,999,999,200 left.



    Classic strawman argument. Clearly Apple can't afford to give away iPads and making profit isn't evil. But spending money on improving accommodation would be a one-off cost that Apple would in effect not even notice.



    It is a fact that relative to subsistence costs in China, the Foxconn wage is a good one. The hours are (very) long but not unheard of in developed nations. This is far from slave labour but would you do it? Would you be happy for your son or daughter to do it? Would you be happy to live in accommodation where you share washing facilities and don't even have your own bedroom? I think that just because conditions in the rest of China are worse doesn't mean that you should be able to so easily brush this under the carpet.



    It is also a fact that Apple have accumulated $100 billion due to their very high margins, a significant element of which is the low manufacturing costs. I really do not think that asking them to put 0.5% of that back into the system is too much to ask.
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    Under pure capitalism, price adjusts until the market clears. That includes the labor market, so under pure capitalism there is never any unemployment. Unemployed people are an uncleared market caused by interference in price adjustment by regulations, taxes, unions etc.



    Under unregulated capitalism, employers gang together to ensure that there will be an army of unemployed, willing to work for slave wages.
  • island hermitisland hermit Posts: 6,217member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    It is a fact that relative to subsistence costs in China, the Foxconn wage is a good one. The hours are (very) long but not unheard of in developed nations. This is far from slave labour but would you do it? Would you be happy for your son or daughter to do it? Would you be happy to live in accommodation where you share washing facilities and don't even have your own bedroom? I think that just because conditions in the rest of China are worse doesn't mean that you should be able to so easily brush this under the carpet.



    If I was living in China I'd probably be more than happy to do it.



    Another straw man argument actually.



    Let's ask another question. Would anyone here be willing to go live in one of the Hell On Wheels camps in the USA when the railroads were built? Much worse conditions than Foxconn. Child labor as well. Taking a US citizen from today and plunking them into one of these camps would be the equivalent to hell on earth yet men from all over the country travelled far and wide just to be employed during that time.
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    I'm not sure I buy that.



    "APPLE/ANY AMERICAN COMPANY EVER USES SLAVE LABOR" is a much more enticing title than crap about workers' conditions. If they had ANY sort of evidence for it (heck, even if they didn't but thought they could get some), that would have been headlines, not crap about conditions.



    Here's the evidence:



    Quote:

    According to her, local Chinese government departments provide recruitment assistance for Foxconn and sometimes require that schools send their students to the manufacturer for internships even if their studies are in unrelated disciplines.



  • jcdinkinsjcdinkins Posts: 45member
    If the letter behind Apple's market value was an M instead of a B, no one would be hearing about Foxconn, Proview, etc. When you're at the top, every tool (including tools on this board) take shots at you.
  • mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,650member, moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


    Another straw man argument actually.



    How is asking someone who apparently thinks everything is fine and dandy if they'd be prepared to work like that, a strawman argument?



    Surely it's hypocritical to expect others to live and work in conditions you wouldn't tolerate for yourself or your family just so your favourite company can avoid parting with 0.5% of their accumulated wealth (wealth which was accumulated on the back of these workers in the first place)?
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