Chinese writers double request for damages in Apple piracy suit

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Comments

  • king of beigeking of beige Posts: 178member




    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CarlosViscarra View Post


    But I guess I cannot blame them for trying to get rich!



    But how in the he77 did they come up with over 3million bucks?



    They "estimated" that the app were downloaded up to 1 million times... Which translates to "THEY DONT HAVE A CLUE" how many times it was downloaded...



    And how do they determine that over 3 million bucks worth od content was pirated?



    And how do they figure Apple is responsible? What if these were not downloaded in china?



    Geez so many people hoping Apple will just pay out instead of fighting... but they are wrong! This one is a bust!!!



    They're called "smiling idiots."
  • zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 1,827member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Realistic View Post


    Apple is neither a court or a judge.



    Yes, but under U.S. law (may not apply to content not copyrighted in the U.S.), websites and online companies must responsibly respond to "take-down" notices. While this process can be misused, the best thing for any company to do is to take the content down until ownership is resolved.



    I haven't looked at the app store licensing terms recently, but my bet is that developers have to indemnify Apple against any such claims.



    I'm sure these authors simply see a rich company and are hoping for a settlement. But Apple can't give it to them even if the cost of settling is far less than the cost of taking it to court because it would open up a Pandora's Box of thousands of claims and lawsuits.



    But you never know how the Chinese courts will rule.
  • just_mejust_me Posts: 591member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    You know many bank robbers who count their multi-million dollar takes as 'income'?



    Just saying.



    You know bank robbers?
  • island hermitisland hermit Posts: 6,217member
    Apple... the great cash cow.



    It used to be that people had to actually emigrate to the US in their quest to live the American dream. Now they just call a lawyer.
  • bwikbwik Posts: 534member
    This is a very new Chinese trend in which "rule of law" is being used as an extraction device to take money from non-Chinese interests, and put that money in the hands of Chinese interests. To a Chinese government official, doing that as much as possible (and accepting kickbacks) is not dishonest, it is simply loyalty to country over foreigners, who aren't really human at all, really.
  • rayconraycon Posts: 33member
    There are several arguments posted here in an effort to suggest who is most culpable. Interestingly, China has no qualms about patent and copyright infringements of computer hardware and software from the rest of the world.
  • repentantfanrepentantfan Posts: 9member
    There are some here accusing Apple of being complicit to some degree for an (allegedly) Pokemon infringement or drawing the analogy that if someone published an (allegedly) infringing Apple app that Apple would yank it off the Store or shelf.



    For the infringing Apple app,..First, they would know without question if that app is infringing or not; it's their own company. It's also Apple app store; they can do what they want, within reason.



    For the alleged Pokemon infringement, Apple doesn't know if it's true infringement or not, because they don't own the trademark or copyright. Suppose Pokemon's owner (Nintendo, I guess) contracted out the work to this other company. Apple doesn't know that and shouldn't be required to do the dirty work to find out. That's why the rightful trademark/copyright owner must reach out to the infringer first, then if uncooperative, let the courts deal with it. And I think some method to freeze the submitter's app store account or temporarily remove the app after a judge agrees the case isn't frivolous. The point is for trademarks/copyrights Apple doesn't hold the company cannot assume to know the agreements/contracts made and not made.



    The only time I would think Apple should have to fork over some cash is if they were found to absolutely know (as in a court order or decision) they were distributing infringing apps.
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by repentantfan View Post


    The only time I would think Apple should have to fork over some cash is if they were found to absolutely know (as in a court order or decision) they were distributing infringing apps.



    Do you feel the same way about those guys who sell pirated DVDs on street corners?
  • nagrommenagromme Posts: 2,834member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    I see your point. But just to play devil's advocate, let's say that the developers of that pirated Pokemon app did indeed lie about it. Shouldn't Apple still have caught that lie, especially when it is such a blatant and easy lie to catch? Doesn't everybody know that Pokemon is connected to Nintendo? Apple at least should have definitely known that.



    But you can imagine what Apple would have to train each member of its app review staff to do? It?s not clear-cut. Not EVERY person knows a thing about Pokemon, and not every person knows what companies Nintendo does and does not work with. It?s completely impractical to have this (and every other) app investigated on a legal level when it is submitted. That would be great I suppose, but not possible. Instead, investigation (or even banning without investigation!) follows after a complaint is made.
  • repentantfanrepentantfan Posts: 9member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post


    Do you feel the same way about those guys who sell pirated DVDs on street corners?



    Yes, because they are in a position that they are knowingly selling pirated DVDs. Apple is not.
  • chris_cachris_ca Posts: 2,517member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Realistic View Post


    Apple is neither a court or a judge.



    Which is why Realistic asked the question you responded to.
  • deansoleckideansolecki Posts: 256member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bwik View Post


    This is a very new Chinese trend in which "rule of law" is being used as an extraction device to take money from non-Chinese interests, and put that money in the hands of Chinese interests. To a Chinese government official, doing that as much as possible (and accepting kickbacks) is not dishonest, it is simply loyalty to country over foreigners, who aren't really human at all, really.



    Yeah, in the USA no one thinks that way, especially not the government.
  • chris_cachris_ca Posts: 2,517member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmm View Post


    It's just a matter of if these guys can show that this is their IP.



    And they show that by going to court and suing the people who did send it to the app store.

    Quote:

    If these guys can suitably prove their work was pirated, it should be enough to pull an app at the very least



    Exactly. Whoever released it will simply say it is their own, original works.

    Proving who's it is, is up to the courts.
  • macky the mackymacky the macky Posts: 4,615member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    I agree that these people need to go after those people who actually stole their works.



    My next comment is not in regards to this case, but it is more of a general statement. I do believe that Apple has an obligation to remove blatant copyright violations from their Appstore.



    Unless I'm missing some facts about this case, I'd say that it was a pretty big blunder on Apple's part to allow that fake Pokemon app which was recently on their Appstore and which some sites have been reporting about. How did Apple miss that one? They need to tighten up their review process IMO.



    Apple's review process is not set up to filter for plagiarism. I don't know if such a thing is even possible with Chinese works that may not be available to check on if there is no central database. Furthermore the works in question were not submitted to Apple as an iBook, but as an application.



    To Chinese it appears that they are not above requesting outrageous damages in the millions and billions and counting on the bribed judges backing up their claims with only a wink at the rule of law.



    In a society of law (which China barely is) the writers would need to send Apple a legal document requesting the applications be removed and showing that they are the legal copyright holders. Without that proof of ownership Apple is not able to act. However, once that proof has been met, THEN it becomes Apple's responsibility to remove the content and charge back the thief.



    Short of the writer's works being well know, like a Harry Potter story, no one could necessarily catch that the claimed owner is not the real owner.
  • marokeromarokero Posts: 98member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


    Chinese authors claim damages from Apple over alleged copyright violations? The irony of this situation seems to escape them.



    They care not for our copyrights, how does it feel to be violated too? Enjoy!
  • boredumbboredumb Posts: 1,117member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


    Uh-oh. Slippery slope ahead. It could turn out that if the reseller of stolen goods paid income taxes on their 70% share, it makes the government an accomplice.



    And if you drove on a street, or over a bridge, built by the government with those taxes, etc., then YOU are an accomplice!
  • tundraboytundraboy Posts: 1,431member
    When Amway first started doing business in China, they offered the same generous satisfaction guaranteed, no questions asked warranty on their products.



    Soon they started getting people who would come in with sacks of empty Amway cleaning product containers demanding full refunds, no questions asked, for each empty bottle. And they had no choice but to comply until they finally changed their refund policies in China.



    It appears the same apparent brazenness is going on here. But I would not comment on the moral angle, I would just say all cultures are different.
  • ka47ka47 Posts: 25member
    Chinese learnt how to sue now.

  • funkdisfunkdis Posts: 41member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by marokero View Post


    They care not for our copyrights, how does it feel to be violated too? Enjoy!



    I agree, China has blatantly copied/produced/sold products for some time. So why should they get the upper hand. The Chinese government isnt clamping down on counterfeit items it seems here in Shanghai. My Chinese co-workers call themselves a 'nation of photocopiers'.



    Across the street I see a Toyota Surf, looks identical including the bull bar, But made by a local car maker that I cant figure out as it looks like the Infinity logo branded 'Safe' (Big letters along both doors just like the original Surf logo)..... Infinity Safe?
  • waldobushmanwaldobushman Posts: 774member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CarlosViscarra View Post


    But I guess I cannot blame them for trying to get rich!



    But how in the he77 did they come up with over 3million bucks?



    They "estimated" that the app were downloaded up to 1 million times... Which translates to "THEY DONT HAVE A CLUE" how many times it was downloaded...



    And how do they determine that over 3 million bucks worth od content was pirated?



    And how do they figure Apple is responsible? What if these were not downloaded in china?



    Geez so many people hoping Apple will just pay out instead of fighting... but they are wrong! This one is a bust!!!



    A couple is issues must be addressed first. One is that the Apps they are claiming used their books as content in fact do violate copyright laws, and that these folks are the owners. This is an international law issue, and these folks must prove that. Absent proof that Apple cannot take the apps off line, else they will be subject damages by the app developers. It is the case, however, that the app developer must certify that they own the works, and hold Apple harmless if that is not the case.



    After the plaintiffs prove their case for copyright, then the next step is damages. The appropriate damages should accrue to the developers of the app, not Apple. Damages can easily be calculated because Apple keeps download and payment histories for every app sold. Getting that information would be trivial.
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