What free market? What competition? Whenever there's a worthy competitor it gets bought. We used to have Exxon and Mobil competing and what do we have now? ExxonMobil and gas prices through the roof. The problem with capitalism is that the vast majority of us aren't capitalists we're consumers. ATT was broken up because it was a monopoly and its slowly gone back to where it was.
So we have ExxonMobile? We also have BP, Citgo, Shell, and others. Plus many of those actually buy oil from smaller suppliers.
Oil is a bad example. AT&T is somewhat fair but the merger of AT&T and T-mobile was stopped, so I think it is also a bad example.
Besides, I think pointing to Apple as some sort of mega-corporation showing how capitalism does not work is misguided. If I came on this forum 7 years ago and said, "Apple is so big and no one can stop them because no one can compete!", you guys would have laughed me out of this forum. But in 5 years Apple has gone from a niche market to a the number one PC seller in the US.
It could happen again. I actually think it will happen again. Apple will get complacent and someone will surpass them at some point. Mark my words.
First you assume I dislike profitable companies. I love companies that make money and funnel money to Wall Street. Usually they keep me employed directly or indirectly.
Second, Apple is different for Microsoft because of the way they are perceived. Google is the company many people hate but still use daily. Apple is a company that if people hate them, they avoid their products.
So, Google is the new Microsoft. You dislike them but stick with them because the alternatives are not attractive.
Did they? Or did those industries decline BECAUSE of the existence of Apple, the iPod, the iPhone, and the iPad?
Look at P&S camera sales, which have fallen off a cliff just in the last three years. Now, what happened four years ago???
If Apple put people out of business it was because their products replaced inferior ones or consumers preferred their products, that is the free market at work and the nature of business.
Just to be clear, if you are saying this because you actually think that Apple beating competitors is somehow immoral and unconscionable, you are a sad, sad person.
If you are suggesting, that to be fair, Apple also needs to keep track of how many jobs their success has cost competitors to point out the absurdity of them touting this number, then I agree with you 100%.
If you go back and read my first post you should see that I think Apple reporting something like this is bad judgement and I feel it could backfire on them. The discussion here sort of supports that this might be a bad decision.
Very few Americans would want those repetitive and boring manufacturing jobs Apple shipped to China..
I don't necessarily agree with that. There are a lot of lazy Americans and far too many are on welfare. These kind of people with limited skills could be put to work instead of living off of everybody else, like a bunch of bums.
I don't necessarily agree with that. There are a lot of lazy Americans and far too many are on welfare. These kind of people with limited skills could be put to work instead of living off of everybody else, like a bunch of bums.
The Chinese are better workers. It's not going to happen. Foxconn has nearly 1,000,000 employess who live where they work. Something on that scale won't happen in America in this century. It's that simple. Not to mention your idea of getting people off the dole to be the workforce is completely ludicrous.
The Chinese are better workers. It's not going to happen. Foxconn has nearly 1,000,000 employess who live where they work. Something on that scale won't happen in America in this century. It's that simple. Not to mention your idea of getting people off the dole to be the workforce is completely ludicrous.
I don't think that it's going to happen either, so I don't disagree with you on that point.
Damn, replied too soon. And you're right - he could have meant that, but I would think that killing off archaic tech fits right in with the "adapt or die" model. Apple shouldn't quit growing because archaic tech companies or businesses based on their products can't adapt to a modern basis.
Not necessarily archaic techs. P&S cameras arent archaic yet their business is dying because every phone now has a camera, how can they possibly adapt? Build a cameraphone? And listen to you all here call it POS. Yes its nice to have everything in one lil device but the jobs lost will ultimately be far greater than those created.
Some are made here. Some were designed here. Many were marketed and sold and shipped here. How many stores like, say, Franklin-Covery, have closed? How many employees?
Besides, that's just a few of them. I've got a list I made of hundreds of the silly things.
Smart phones and tablets (iPhone and iPad) have clearcut a huge segment of the consumer electronics and other industries...
If they added the jobs they sub contract via Foxconn thay would add up to 1,000,000 jobs, subtract away then the bs 250,000 they "create" for ups, truck drivers airplanes, and airplane and truck builders and engineers and they could be up to a respectable 750,000. Just add Foxconn to the list apple!
Not necessarily archaic techs. P&S cameras arent archaic yet their business is dying because every phone now has a camera, how can they possibly adapt? Build a cameraphone? And listen to you all here call it POS. Yes its nice to have everything in one lil device but the jobs lost will ultimately be far greater than those created.
Innovation typically ends up in making more with less unless it is a new market. It is called progress and it will always be that way.
Innovation typically ends up in making more with less unless it is a new market. It is called progress and it will always be that way.
Doesn't mean one has to be hypocritical. Don't flaunt a number of jobs created when in fact your technology had effectively killed so many more. Yes I know its a dog eat dog world.
Apple I love yah, but counting the UPS/FedEx person as an indirect job created by Apple is a stretch to say the least. That person would have a delivery job regardless of that iPad delivery. They just might have 2-5 (or some other small #) fewer deliveries per week. If that's their argument then I guess that person who sells you that iPad in a VZ, AT&T or Best Buy store should be counted, too? And no they should not be counted.
Apple knows exactly how much they pay FedEx and UPS. They can see FedEx and UPS revenues for each year. Divide first by second and you get what percentage of FedEx employees Apple is "responsible" for. Is this so difficult to understand? Is this not conceptually valid as well?
If Apple were to suddenly switch to USPS, would it not be a major impact on FedEx and UPS? Several employees would likely be fired and USPS would likely hire about as many employees.
Here is a company that has generally under promised and overdelivered. Even in their worst times, they have offered to make good on promises made - like free bumpers during antenna gate. Even after Sep 2010, anyone who asked for a bumper got it free.
Even in the Foxconn case, Apple has done way beyond what it is required to do.
But for some reason, Apple has started becoming a company that a few people love to hate. It is a pity really - because Apple is now a cultural phenomenon. There are many people who run their businesses thinking "how would Apple do this" or "what would Jobs do".
More power to Apple and more success. "Think Different"
Comments
Apple doesn't exist and we all just develop for Windows instead.
You're really adding to this thread.
econd, still don't agree with you. Apple is successful and therefore evil? You said so yourself that stores were on the decline. Apple filled a void.
Did they? Or did those industries decline BECAUSE of the existence of Apple, the iPod, the iPhone, and the iPad?
Look at P&S camera sales, which have fallen off a cliff just in the last three years. Now, what happened four years ago???
What free market? What competition? Whenever there's a worthy competitor it gets bought. We used to have Exxon and Mobil competing and what do we have now? ExxonMobil and gas prices through the roof. The problem with capitalism is that the vast majority of us aren't capitalists we're consumers. ATT was broken up because it was a monopoly and its slowly gone back to where it was.
So we have ExxonMobile? We also have BP, Citgo, Shell, and others. Plus many of those actually buy oil from smaller suppliers.
Oil is a bad example. AT&T is somewhat fair but the merger of AT&T and T-mobile was stopped, so I think it is also a bad example.
Besides, I think pointing to Apple as some sort of mega-corporation showing how capitalism does not work is misguided. If I came on this forum 7 years ago and said, "Apple is so big and no one can stop them because no one can compete!", you guys would have laughed me out of this forum. But in 5 years Apple has gone from a niche market to a the number one PC seller in the US.
It could happen again. I actually think it will happen again. Apple will get complacent and someone will surpass them at some point. Mark my words.
First you assume I dislike profitable companies. I love companies that make money and funnel money to Wall Street. Usually they keep me employed directly or indirectly.
Second, Apple is different for Microsoft because of the way they are perceived. Google is the company many people hate but still use daily. Apple is a company that if people hate them, they avoid their products.
So, Google is the new Microsoft. You dislike them but stick with them because the alternatives are not attractive.
Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.
Did they? Or did those industries decline BECAUSE of the existence of Apple, the iPod, the iPhone, and the iPad?
Look at P&S camera sales, which have fallen off a cliff just in the last three years. Now, what happened four years ago???
If Apple put people out of business it was because their products replaced inferior ones or consumers preferred their products, that is the free market at work and the nature of business.
Just to be clear, if you are saying this because you actually think that Apple beating competitors is somehow immoral and unconscionable, you are a sad, sad person.
If you are suggesting, that to be fair, Apple also needs to keep track of how many jobs their success has cost competitors to point out the absurdity of them touting this number, then I agree with you 100%.
If you go back and read my first post you should see that I think Apple reporting something like this is bad judgement and I feel it could backfire on them. The discussion here sort of supports that this might be a bad decision.
Very few Americans would want those repetitive and boring manufacturing jobs Apple shipped to China..
I don't necessarily agree with that. There are a lot of lazy Americans and far too many are on welfare. These kind of people with limited skills could be put to work instead of living off of everybody else, like a bunch of bums.
I don't necessarily agree with that. There are a lot of lazy Americans and far too many are on welfare. These kind of people with limited skills could be put to work instead of living off of everybody else, like a bunch of bums.
The Chinese are better workers. It's not going to happen. Foxconn has nearly 1,000,000 employess who live where they work. Something on that scale won't happen in America in this century. It's that simple. Not to mention your idea of getting people off the dole to be the workforce is completely ludicrous.
Whats your point since most of the products you mention aren't made in the USA to start with? Saving trees is a bad thing?
The products mentioned are not manufactured in the states but the companies are American, kinda like say hmmmmm Apple.
The Chinese are better workers. It's not going to happen. Foxconn has nearly 1,000,000 employess who live where they work. Something on that scale won't happen in America in this century. It's that simple. Not to mention your idea of getting people off the dole to be the workforce is completely ludicrous.
I don't think that it's going to happen either, so I don't disagree with you on that point.
Damn, replied too soon. And you're right - he could have meant that, but I would think that killing off archaic tech fits right in with the "adapt or die" model. Apple shouldn't quit growing because archaic tech companies or businesses based on their products can't adapt to a modern basis.
Not necessarily archaic techs. P&S cameras arent archaic yet their business is dying because every phone now has a camera, how can they possibly adapt? Build a cameraphone? And listen to you all here call it POS. Yes its nice to have everything in one lil device but the jobs lost will ultimately be far greater than those created.
Some are made here. Some were designed here. Many were marketed and sold and shipped here. How many stores like, say, Franklin-Covery, have closed? How many employees?
Besides, that's just a few of them. I've got a list I made of hundreds of the silly things.
Smart phones and tablets (iPhone and iPad) have clearcut a huge segment of the consumer electronics and other industries...
I'll ask again. What is your point?
I'll ask again. What is your point?
Same as mine, that that jobs lost will outnumber those gained. Now in defense of Apple they're not alone but they're the worst offender.
Not necessarily archaic techs. P&S cameras arent archaic yet their business is dying because every phone now has a camera, how can they possibly adapt? Build a cameraphone? And listen to you all here call it POS. Yes its nice to have everything in one lil device but the jobs lost will ultimately be far greater than those created.
Innovation typically ends up in making more with less unless it is a new market. It is called progress and it will always be that way.
Same as mine, that that jobs lost will outnumber those gained. Now in defense of Apple they're not alone but they're the worst offender.
Educate me by giving me some real examples that back up your POV.
Innovation typically ends up in making more with less unless it is a new market. It is called progress and it will always be that way.
Doesn't mean one has to be hypocritical. Don't flaunt a number of jobs created when in fact your technology had effectively killed so many more. Yes I know its a dog eat dog world.
Hmmmm...I'm not a fan of nationalism, but...you owe nothing to the community that made you who you are? Well, at least you use Apple products!
Not to mention Apple isn't a private company. Ireland was incorrect in his orginal statement.
If Apple were to suddenly switch to USPS, would it not be a major impact on FedEx and UPS? Several employees would likely be fired and USPS would likely hire about as many employees.
Here is a company that has generally under promised and overdelivered. Even in their worst times, they have offered to make good on promises made - like free bumpers during antenna gate. Even after Sep 2010, anyone who asked for a bumper got it free.
Even in the Foxconn case, Apple has done way beyond what it is required to do.
But for some reason, Apple has started becoming a company that a few people love to hate. It is a pity really - because Apple is now a cultural phenomenon. There are many people who run their businesses thinking "how would Apple do this" or "what would Jobs do".
More power to Apple and more success. "Think Different"