Apple rumored to use 'slim bezel display' for 7.85-inch iPad

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  • Reply 81 of 132
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 2oh1 View Post


    I have yet to see any of those advocating for a 7 inch iPad address the issue of app sizes.



    It's hard enough to get developers to make TWO versions of their apps, let alone THREE. iPhone apps would be huge on a 7 inch iPad, but is that magnification useful enough for consumers to want it? iPad apps would be small to the point where many couldn't be used on a smaller screen.



    But if it uses the 1024x768 display it'll scale perfectly¡



    Seriously though, what you've written is exactly what Jobs was talking about when he alluded to the issue with current 7" tablets. You have to make the UI idealized for the display. The Kindle Fire and Nook Tablet do this well because as of right now they have a single UI designed specifically for the display size and aspect ratio.



    This isn't something Apple can't tackle (and they probably have the HW and SW in their labs) but whether it's something they want to release because of its inherent issues.
  • Reply 82 of 132
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    DigiTimes



    That is all.



    "In the six months this report covers, Digitimes is listed as the source of 13 provable rumors. They have a perfect record of 0 for 13. Keep that in mind next time anyone reports, "according to Digitimes...""



    http://stupidapplerumors.com/news/20...h-rumor-report
  • Reply 83 of 132
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,425member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 2oh1 View Post


    I have yet to see any of those advocating for a 7 inch iPad address the issue of app sizes.



    It's hard enough to get developers to make TWO versions of their apps, let alone THREE. iPhone apps would be huge on a 7 inch iPad, but is that magnification useful enough for consumers to want it? iPad apps would be small to the point where many couldn't be used on a smaller screen.



    We're not advocating for a 7" tablet we're advocating for a 7.85" tablet with the same resolution as the first and second gen iPads which means no app modifications need to be done.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nht View Post


    "In the six months this report covers, Digitimes is listed as the source of 13 provable rumors. They have a perfect record of 0 for 13. Keep that in mind next time anyone reports, "according to Digitimes...""



    http://stupidapplerumors.com/news/20...h-rumor-report



    This isn't coming from Digitimes. The article says it's from a vendor in Apple's supply chain.
  • Reply 84 of 132
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    But if it uses the 1024x768 display it'll scale perfectly¡



    Seriously though, what you've written is exactly what Jobs was talking about when he alluded to the issue with current 7" tablets. You have to make the UI idealized for the display. The Kindle Fire and Nook Tablet do this well because as of right now they have a single UI designed specifically for the display size and aspect ratio.



    This isn't something Apple can't tackle (and they probably have the HW and SW in their labs) but whether it's something they want to release because of its inherent issues.



    There is no reason that a 7" iPad can't actually use the iPhone resolutions and scaling. 640x960 won't be awesome but not bad either.



    1280x1920 would be pretty awesome though.
  • Reply 85 of 132
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    We're not advocating for a 7" tablet we're advocating for a 7.85" tablet with the same resolution as the first and second gen iPads which means no app modifications need to be done.



    I'm not sure I'd like to use an iPad app on something smaller than the iPad unless the actual usable screen size isn't that much smaller.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    This isn't coming from Digitimes. The article says it's from a vendor in Apple's supply chain.



    According to Digitimes it came from someone in Apple's supply chain. You're better off looking for credible intel in the bars where Apple engineers seem to lose prototypes.
  • Reply 86 of 132
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,425member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nht View Post


    I'm not sure I'd like to use an iPad app on something smaller than the iPad unless the actual usable screen size isn't that much smaller.





    According to Digitimes it came from someone in Apple's supply chain. You're better off looking for credible intel in the bars where Apple engineers seem to lose prototypes.



    Aye but the Wall Street Journal's record of late has been pretty good



    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...104574994.html



    They are saying that testing is going on and Samsung Securities leaked documents also point towards the possible entry of a smaller form factor iPad.



    In these situations I tend to apply Occam's Razor. There are multiple Macbook form factors and iMac form factors. Logical progression would apply the same benefit/detriment to the iPad line as well.
  • Reply 87 of 132
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    We're not advocating for a 7" tablet we're advocating for a 7.85" tablet with the same resolution as the first and second gen iPads which means no app modifications need to be done.



    That "same resolution" means a lower dot pitch which means everything is smaller than it would be on the 10" iPad. There is no evidence that Apple would do such a thing without idealizing the UI for the device and creating an SDK and App Store specifically so apps can take full advantage of the display.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nht View Post


    There is no reason that a 7" iPad can't actually use the iPhone resolutions and scaling. 640x960 won't be awesome but not bad either.



    1280x1920 would be pretty awesome though.



    There are lots of reasons that Apple would never do that.



    Take this screenshot and represent it on a Mac.
    Do the size of those icons look like something Apple would do? How about if they were considerably smaller?



    You can even look at Apple's Human Interface Guidelines to see that they didn't simply put 57x57px icons on the iPad from the iPhone. They have developers upload new icons that are idealized for the display. Would 57x57px work on the iPad? Sure, but it wasn't ideal.
  • Reply 88 of 132
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    In these situations I tend to apply Occam's Razor. There are multiple Macbook form factors and iMac form factors. Logical progression would apply the same benefit/detriment to the iPad line as well.



    And they all use a WINDOWED OS. When your display isn't just for output but also the primary input every changes.
  • Reply 89 of 132
    dshandshan Posts: 53member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kalvin View Post


    This is not an iPad, this is the remote control for the Apple TV.



    This may well be the explanation for these rumours. A remote wouldn't need such a complex UI as a full-blown iPad and the elements could be larger on-screen allowing for a smaller screen. It'd basically be an iPad that ran only one app - the Apple Remote app. It'd allow for controlling new Apple TV apps running on the TV itself but wouldn't have to have much RAM or flash itself (and the ATV apps themselves are likely to be simpler than most existing iOS apps with buttony UIs and many would likely be game-oriented apps requiring only a virtual game controller UI on the remote's screen).
  • Reply 90 of 132
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,425member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    And they all use a WINDOWED OS. When your display isn't just for output but also the primary input every changes.



    Yes but gestural interfaces somewhat ameliorate the need to hit smaller targets. Couple Apple's extensive work on multi touch UI along with dictation now presumably on all forthcoming iPad product and i'm really at a loss for why people are kvetching about screen size.



    iPhoto on iOS is a nice example (well on the iPad) everything is a nice sized button to tap and much of the manipulation is done via touching screen areas and the software handles the rest.



    Steve Jobs said the ideal tap target should be a minimum of 44 pixels. I'd like to know how small most of the targets would shrink to on a mini and how easily it would be for developers to increase the target size.
  • Reply 91 of 132
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Yes but gestural interfaces somewhat ameliorate the need to hit smaller targets. Couple Apple's extensive work on multi touch UI along with dictation now presumably on all forthcoming iPad product and i'm really at a loss for why people are kvetching about screen size.



    iPhoto on iOS is a nice example (well on the iPad) everything is a nice sized button to tap and much of the manipulation is done via touching screen areas and the software handles the rest.



    Steve Jobs said the ideal tap target should be a minimum of 44 pixels. I'd like to know how small most of the targets would shrink to on a mini and how easily it would be for developers to increase the target size.



    1) People are kvetching because, as shown above, you can't just expand and shrink a non-windowed OS and expect to get the same user experience.



    2) You can choose a size and resolution to find out the pixel density. From there you can figure out how large in mm or inches the icon would be and how that compares to other icons. I've done the maths in a previous forum post.



    3) 44 pixel minimum is irrelevant in and of itself to determine if it's useful. Take the 57px icons of the iPad 2 and now apply them to the iPad 3 pixel for pixel. You now icons that are 1/4 their previous size. With a 264ppi display that now makes the icon 0.216"x0.216". That's simply too small. Sure, a 7.85" 1024x768 display wouldn't be nearly as severe but I am sure it would be severe enough that Apple wouldn't just pop the iPad 1/2's UI on a smaller iPad and call it a day. And that's just the Home Screen icons. We haven't even taken into consideration all the other, and much smaller elements in apps.
  • Reply 92 of 132
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,425member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post




    1) People are kvetching because, as shown above, you can't just expand and shrink a non-windowed OS and expect to get the same user experience.






    User experience is highly subjective and often depend on the design of software. My problem is people understand what they like about the UI but that doesn't mean that's a template that's going to cover the broad range of potential uses for millions of other people.
  • Reply 93 of 132
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    User experience is highly subjective and often depend on the design of software. My problem is people understand what they like about the UI but that doesn't mean that's a template that's going to cover the broad range of potential uses for millions of other people.



    In no way am i talking about what 'I' like. As previously noted, if the UI wasn't a big deal to Apple then they wouldn't have adjusted the icon pixels between the iPhone and iPad. I think a 0.43"x0.43" icon would have been adequate. But since when doesn't Apple ignore the UI in favour of just going with minimal adequacy?



    I think it's safe to say the iPad succeeds because of the attention to detail to make the interface as ideal as possible. It was not a haphazard decision that can be spread across any number of display sizes.
  • Reply 94 of 132
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,425member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    In no way am i talking about what 'I' like. As previously noted, if the UI wasn't a big deal to Apple then they wouldn't have adjusted the icon pixels between the iPhone and iPad. I think a 0.43"x0.43" icon would have been adequate. But since when doesn't Apple ignore the UI in favour of just going with minimal adequacy?



    I think it's safe to say the iPad succeeds because of the attention to detail to make the interface as ideal as possible. It was not a haphazard decision that can be spread across any number of display sizes.



    Agreed...i'm interested in seeing what new iOS paradigms enter the fray with iOS 6. Whatever happens with the mythical iPad mini I can tell you one thing if a mini hit before the busy shopping season it would suck the oxygen out of the room for competitors if priced sub $300.



    Samsung could compete but few others would stand a chance IMO
  • Reply 95 of 132
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 2oh1 View Post


    I have yet to see any of those advocating for a 7 inch iPad address the issue of app sizes.



    It's hard enough to get developers to make TWO versions of their apps, let alone THREE. iPhone apps would be huge on a 7 inch iPad, but is that magnification useful enough for consumers to want it? iPad apps would be small to the point where many couldn't be used on a smaller screen.



    What are you talking about? You've seen a iPhone right, now that's tiny. The Android tablets that are 7 inch don't seem to have much of a problem nor does the Playbook. My Samsung 7.7" has a resolution of 1280 x 800 which is more then readable.



    Again more guessing from the peanut gallery. Oh I have to wonder what you think is happening with the current state of apps on the new iPad 3. It has like 4 times the resolution of the iPad 2. They'll scale just fine on a 7 inch screen.
  • Reply 96 of 132
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Relic View Post


    What are you talking about? You've seen a iPhone right, now that's tiny. The Android tablets that are 7 inch don't seem to have much of a problem nor does the Playbook. My Samsung 7.7" has a resolution of 1280 x 800 which is more then readable.



    Again more guessing from the peanut gallery. Oh I have to wonder what you think is happening with the current state of apps on the new iPad 3. It has like 4 times the resolution of the iPad 2. They'll scale just fine on a 7 inch screen.



    You mention as positives the reasons other tablets have failed. The playbook has cost RiM billions.



    Smartphone apps on 7" tablets. FAIL.

    Having the same tablet UI regardless of the tablet size. FAIL.



    I have no idea why you're bringing up the resolution of the iPad 3 as it's the same EXACT display size over the iPad . Apps will be represented EXACTLY the same size on any iPad.
  • Reply 97 of 132
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Agreed...i'm interested in seeing what new iOS paradigms enter the fray with iOS 6. Whatever happens with the mythical iPad mini I can tell you one thing if a mini hit before the busy shopping season it would suck the oxygen out of the room for competitors if priced sub $300.



    Samsung could compete but few others would stand a chance IMO



    Totally agree, even at $300 Samsung would have a hard time competing. That's kind of why I don't want Apple making a 7 inch. It would be devastating to the market if everyone just gave up. Sorry, as much as you guys like your iPads that is a world I do not want to live in.



    Apple would never add phone support to their 7", Samsung does.

    Apple would never add a miniSD card to their 7", Samsung does.

    Apple would never add disk mounting when connected to a computer to their 7", Samsung does.

    Apple would never add an active digitizer to their 7", Samsung will soon.

    Apple would never add DLNA to stream videos to their 7", Samsung does.



    There are plenty of reasons why we need Samsung to continue making their kick ass 7.7'' tablet. It's one of the best tablets you can buy but people would blindly buy the Apple instead without knowing all the short comings. I don't care if you agree but if you had one you would completely agree.



    Apple could ruin that for me. Please keep to your end of the market Apple nothing to see down here.
  • Reply 98 of 132
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    You mention as positives the reasons other tablets have failed. The playbook has cost RiM billions.



    Smartphone apps on 7" tablets. FAIL.

    Having the same tablet UI regardless of the tablet size. FAIL.



    I have no idea why you're bringing up the resolution of the iPad 3 as it's the same EXACT display size over the iPad . Apps will be represented EXACTLY the same size on any iPad.



    What are talking about, the guy I was replying to was saying that a iPad 7" would be to small to read. I just said that if other manufactures can produce a 7" tablet that is readable so can Apple. Nothing about RIM being better or anything like that. Read before write please.



    Oh and yes the iPad has the same exact resolution that was my point again please read before replying.
  • Reply 99 of 132
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Relic View Post


    What are talking about, the guy I was replying to was saying that a iPad 7" would be to small to read. I just said that if other manufactures can produce a 7" tablet that is readable so can Apple. Nothing about RIM being better or anything like that. Read before write please.



    Then it makes no sense to bring it up because Apple makes the iPhone and Touch which have 1/8th the display size and are perfectly fine to read on.



    It was your last sentence after your talking about 10" iPad resolutions that made me think you were talking about scaling the 10" iPad UI to 7" and thinking that would be ideal for Apple to do. You did write, "They'll scale just fine on a 7 inch screen." Everything you wrote made me think you were talking about scaling apps from a 10" to a 7" display, not that Apple could make a display with a new UI that is readable.
  • Reply 100 of 132
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    Then it makes no sense to bring it up because Apple makes the iPhone and Touch which have 1/8th the display size and are perfectly fine to read on.



    It was your last sentence after your talking about 10" iPad resolutions that made me think you were talking about scaling the 10" iPad UI to 7" and thinking that would be ideal for Apple to do. You did write, "They'll scale just fine on a 7 inch screen." Everything you wrote made me think you were talking about scaling apps from a 10" to a 7" display, not that Apple could make a display with a new UI that is readable.



    Again what are you talking about, my head is spinning. It doesn't matter what size the damn screen is after 3.5 " inches because we know it's going to look good. Please read the guys post I replied to. He was talking about new interfaces and crap like that, I just said if other manufactures can produce 7" inch tablets that are readable then it stands to reason that Apple could make it if not better.



    Oh i see now, no that wasn't me who wrote. please read the poster name again.
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