I do want to keep pretty much everything on the 15 pro, the optical, the ethernet, the rotating hard drive and the better cpu. I can give up the optical for a dual hard drive, one SSD one rotating but prefer optical.
If they dropped the pro completely I would gravitate towards a 13 air and using my desktop more, but at replacement time that desktop might not be an Apple if they dropped the optical out of that one too.
There are a few things I'd like to see from Apple on a display level, but I don't know their feasibility at a manufacturing level within Apple's cost parameters. IPS has obviously gotten a lot cheaper. If they placed a large enough order, I suppose it's possible.
IPS seems more problematic than HiDPI. I am seeing some IPS panels in other machines but they are still pricey, seem to be low yield at those sizes, but this is Apple we're talking about and even though a 200 PPI* IPS display in a 13" MBP would probably be doable I can't see them doing that until they can put it in the entire line at or near the same time frame.
* HiDPI doesn't need to use a 2x scaling n order to get the appropriate scaling needed, unlike with a window-less OS.
What ever happened to the idea of putting Ethernet and other ports on the power brick? I don't need ethernet when I'm not plugged in, but sure would be nice and convenient to use the brick as a docking station of sorts.
Thought I read here that apple received a patent for this idea?
What ever happened to the idea of putting Ethernet and other ports on the power brick? I don't need ethernet when I'm not plugged in, but sure would be nice and convenient to use the brick as a docking station of sorts.
Thought I read here that apple received a patent for this idea?
There area couple convenience issues with that idea but the biggest problem is the ability to transport. There have been a couple machines that did just that but they take the ethernet and convert to WiFi so it's even slower than using a USB dongle for 100BASE-T. The only feasible way around this is to use and optical cable for data in the power cable. So we're talking LightPeak that isn't even on the market, but then you'll need a controller in the power supply to convert to copper ethernet which I don't think warrants the cost in and of itself.
Really? I've been using my 17" MBP since 2006 and haven't found it to be too much to 'lug around'. Sure, it's a big computer, but unless you're incredibly weak, a 6 pound computer instead of a 3 pound computer shouldn't make THAT much of a difference.
Would I like it to be lighter? Sure. But I wouldn't claim that it's not usable because of the size.
I think the point is that in terms of usability and responsiveness, the Air is faster than a MBP for the average user. Again, keep in mind that the quote that started this thread was that a 15" MBA would kill of the Pro FOR THE AVERAGE USER. The average non-pro user isn't doing anything that requires massive CPU or GPU performance, so most people would see a 15" Air with SSD as being at least equal to a conventional 15" Pro with HDD.
No, I am not incredibly weak. Also I was not trying to imply that a 17" was useless or even that it is too heavy.
Since I don't need that big of a screen there is little benefit for me in dragging around a larger and more awkward (and expensive!) computer. If I am hauling the kids around or am out and about for work I think that 17"
is just to big to be convenient. I might be using it in the drivers seat (while parked) or doing an invoice with it perched on the hood of my truck or balanced on my arm.
I am actually thinking about getting the new iPad because I would be more likely to take that with me then I do my 13" Macbook pro. And.. I think that high res screen might be easier on the eyes.
The rest of your comment I agree with. Running office, email, and surfing the inter webs the airs are
To be less factious, I think Apple or the article write loses the point of the PRO line. It's for professionals, not for kids reading facebook in bed. If you're going to aim a hardware line and spec it for people who want to do more than browse the web, don't discard functionality for style. Optical is dead or mostly and I'd gladly live with a USB DVD drive for all the times I've used it, but when I'm throwing around multi-gig files on a network I don't want to do it via wireless.
To the commenters on the whole thunderbird/USB 3 adaptor: as long as it's included in the box, then it's cool. Asking someone to pay ~$150 for a standard peripheral on top of the ~$2k you've already paid is pushing the limit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Apple would have to be really shitty for not including USB 3.0 once the controller is in the CPU.
In CPU performance? In GPU performance? In drive performance? The only one that is likely is in drive performance because a 7200 RPM HDD is slow.
Definitely drive performance. 7200 RPM drives are fast in terms of reliable, large volume notebook drives, but they don't stack up to SSD as far as speed is concerned.
However, Apple has a clear lead in solid state storage, and they seem to have found a way to manage the fidelity of their SS memory extremely well. Compare their storage — with very little known incidents of failure — to even the best third-party solid state aftermarket drives. The actual mean time between failure for the latter is roughly 9 months. That's astonishingly low, especially when you're talking about sensitive, unique data that's at risk.
What I really hope is included with the new laptops is a 1TB disc space. With all the hi-res videos and photos nowadays, 750GB is not (more than) enough. 1TB base space seems like a minimum requirement now.
To be less factious, I think Apple or the article write loses the point of the PRO line. It's for professionals, not for kids reading facebook in bed. If you're going to aim a hardware line and spec it for people who want to do more than browse the web, don't discard functionality for style. Optical is dead or mostly and I'd gladly live with a USB DVD drive for all the times I've used it, but when I'm throwing around multi-gig files on a network I don't want to do it via wireless.
To the commenters on the whole thunderbird/USB 3 adaptor: as long as it's included in the box, then it's cool. Asking someone to pay ~$150 for a standard peripheral on top of the ~$2k you've already paid is pushing the limit.
Again I ask what your point is. I don't see how it addresses my comment about Apple having to actively not include USB 3.0 when its a part of the Ivy Bridge microarchitecture they'll be using.
My original point was a sarcastic response to your comment about them being shitty if they would not including a USB 3 port. "your point?" inferred that yes, I think they would do it. I would sincerely hope that I'm wrong, but USB 3 is somewhat of a competitor to TB.
And my apologies, my intent was to be a smart ass, not to start a flame war.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Apple would have to be really shitty for not including USB 3.0 once the controller is in the CPU.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Again I ask what your point is. I don't see how it addresses my comment about Apple having to actively not include USB 3.0 when its a part of the Ivy Bridge microarchitecture they'll be using.
I've been committed to 17" laptops since 2003, and I really find them awful to lug around. Maybe it doesn't matter so much if you aren't excessively mobile all the time (and by that I mean walking around all day, lugging you gear or commuting on a bike) but for me it has been awkward. They are just a smidge too big for most bags- especially messenger bags (at least the ones I use). If they work for you awesome! I just find them unwieldy.
That said, I am finally upgrading after FAR too may years and I really need Apple to keep the 15" Pros. I hope Apple remembers that professionals buy their laptops too... I don't need an optical drive enough to have one built in (an external is more than fine for the rare times I use it) And I wouldn't mind the extra space being used for something more beneficial- like a SSD boot It would be nice if they kept the ethernet port, but the real necessity is powerful graphics capabilities.
Don't break my heart Apple- stay away from Intel integrated graphics in Pro models.
My original point was a sarcastic response to your comment about them being shitty if they would not including a USB 3 port. "your point?" inferred that yes, I think they would do it. I would sincerely hope that I'm wrong, but USB 3 is somewhat of a competitor to TB.
And my apologies, my intent was to be a smart ass, not to start a flame war.
That's the problem with sarcasm in text form. It can easily be missed.
FireWire is a lot closer to USB than Thunderbolt is yet Apple never removed USB or kept it at USB 1.1 so that FireWire was the only way to power an iDevice and the only feasible way to sync an iDevice. On top of that Apple had a big stake in FireWire where as Thunderbolt is an Intel tech.
Just like Thunderbolt not requiring Apple (or any vendors that use mDP) to add another port, USB 3.0 allows for backwards compatibility with USB 2.0.
Again, it'll be included in the microarchitecture so for Apple not to add it would be shitty.
I'm not. My line of work requires transfer of information between various departments, auditors and 3rd party vendors. We have email caps, so we can't go that way. We don't give out USB drives either. We tried FTP, but some vendors are clueless.
Why not use YouSendit or Dropbox? Very easy to use solutions
IPS seems more problematic than HiDPI. I am seeing some IPS panels in other machines but they are still pricey, seem to be low yield at those sizes, but this is Apple we're talking about and even though a 200 PPI* IPS display in a 13" MBP would probably be doable I can't see them doing that until they can put it in the entire line at or near the same time frame.
* HiDPI doesn't need to use a 2x scaling n order to get the appropriate scaling needed, unlike with a window-less OS.
Well a few years ago IPS was extremely expensive, and LG panels weren't so great. Things have changed obviously, but in the past IPS leveraged out older crt displays where quality was needed. Obviously phones were another matter as they became a big point of growth. Given that a number of low cost IPS displays exist, I'm guessing it would be possible in a notebook space if Apple really wanted it. The large premium on such a display is likely due to low volume, but HP has a 15" 1920x1080 with their dreamcolor label. To give Apple credit, the current displays really aren't bad for TN displays. Some of the older ones sucked. If implementation was simple enough they could do something like bump the current "high resolution" display to a standard option and offer IPS as an upgrade with higher resolution. I guess it would be an issue of how many people are willing to pay for such a thing. My point before was that laptops got passed over there. IPS made headway on desktop displays where quality was needed in medical, broadcast, prepress, color grading, etc. to replace aging crts. Then the next big thing was smartphones, although I have no idea what the display cost is for the iphone.
Displays are a really quirky issue though. There are so many aspects and so many small pieces of circuitry that affect performance and stability. I'm not a huge fan of Apple in terms of desktop displays. They have different issues from some of the others on the market.
Why not use YouSendit or Dropbox? Very easy to use solutions
Dropbox at $9.99 per month gets you 50GB. That is probably less than the cost of the shipping of the DVD.
On top of that they will have it on their system ready to go in a much faster time. Plus, if it's just a routine editing of the same basic file it will only sync the changes which can make it nearly instantaneous. Finally, with the paid service all versions are stored indefinitely which means you'll never be more than a few clicks away from older files.
Rumors of a larger 15-inch MacBook Air continue to surface, with the latest claim suggesting Apple is gearing up to launch a larger ultraportable notebook in April. [...]
Who knows? Maybe all these nebulous rumors were triggered when some leaker saw the enclosure for the new 15" MacBook Pro. Thinner, like the MacBook Air. More tapered, like the MacBook Air. No optical drive, like the MacBook Air. None of those changes should surprise anyone in the slightest.
Remember, way back in January 2008, when the first MacBook Air was announced? Steve Jobs pulled one out of that manila envelope and said "We think it's the future of notebooks." The tag line for MacBook Air ads was "The future of notebooks." Well it's been more than four years since then. That particular future is now.
Comments
If they dropped the pro completely I would gravitate towards a 13 air and using my desktop more, but at replacement time that desktop might not be an Apple if they dropped the optical out of that one too.
There are a few things I'd like to see from Apple on a display level, but I don't know their feasibility at a manufacturing level within Apple's cost parameters. IPS has obviously gotten a lot cheaper. If they placed a large enough order, I suppose it's possible.
IPS seems more problematic than HiDPI. I am seeing some IPS panels in other machines but they are still pricey, seem to be low yield at those sizes, but this is Apple we're talking about and even though a 200 PPI* IPS display in a 13" MBP would probably be doable I can't see them doing that until they can put it in the entire line at or near the same time frame.
* HiDPI doesn't need to use a 2x scaling n order to get the appropriate scaling needed, unlike with a window-less OS.
Thought I read here that apple received a patent for this idea?
What ever happened to the idea of putting Ethernet and other ports on the power brick? I don't need ethernet when I'm not plugged in, but sure would be nice and convenient to use the brick as a docking station of sorts.
Thought I read here that apple received a patent for this idea?
There area couple convenience issues with that idea but the biggest problem is the ability to transport. There have been a couple machines that did just that but they take the ethernet and convert to WiFi so it's even slower than using a USB dongle for 100BASE-T. The only feasible way around this is to use and optical cable for data in the power cable. So we're talking LightPeak that isn't even on the market, but then you'll need a controller in the power supply to convert to copper ethernet which I don't think warrants the cost in and of itself.
Really? I've been using my 17" MBP since 2006 and haven't found it to be too much to 'lug around'. Sure, it's a big computer, but unless you're incredibly weak, a 6 pound computer instead of a 3 pound computer shouldn't make THAT much of a difference.
Would I like it to be lighter? Sure. But I wouldn't claim that it's not usable because of the size.
I think the point is that in terms of usability and responsiveness, the Air is faster than a MBP for the average user. Again, keep in mind that the quote that started this thread was that a 15" MBA would kill of the Pro FOR THE AVERAGE USER. The average non-pro user isn't doing anything that requires massive CPU or GPU performance, so most people would see a 15" Air with SSD as being at least equal to a conventional 15" Pro with HDD.
No, I am not incredibly weak. Also I was not trying to imply that a 17" was useless or even that it is too heavy.
Since I don't need that big of a screen there is little benefit for me in dragging around a larger and more awkward (and expensive!) computer. If I am hauling the kids around or am out and about for work I think that 17"
is just to big to be convenient. I might be using it in the drivers seat (while parked) or doing an invoice with it perched on the hood of my truck or balanced on my arm.
I am actually thinking about getting the new iPad because I would be more likely to take that with me then I do my 13" Macbook pro. And.. I think that high res screen might be easier on the eyes.
The rest of your comment I agree with. Running office, email, and surfing the inter webs the airs are
fast.
To be less factious, I think Apple or the article write loses the point of the PRO line. It's for professionals, not for kids reading facebook in bed. If you're going to aim a hardware line and spec it for people who want to do more than browse the web, don't discard functionality for style. Optical is dead or mostly and I'd gladly live with a USB DVD drive for all the times I've used it, but when I'm throwing around multi-gig files on a network I don't want to do it via wireless.
To the commenters on the whole thunderbird/USB 3 adaptor: as long as it's included in the box, then it's cool. Asking someone to pay ~$150 for a standard peripheral on top of the ~$2k you've already paid is pushing the limit.
Apple would have to be really shitty for not including USB 3.0 once the controller is in the CPU.
Your point???
My point seems pretty obvious. What's your point?
In CPU performance? In GPU performance? In drive performance? The only one that is likely is in drive performance because a 7200 RPM HDD is slow.
Definitely drive performance. 7200 RPM drives are fast in terms of reliable, large volume notebook drives, but they don't stack up to SSD as far as speed is concerned.
However, Apple has a clear lead in solid state storage, and they seem to have found a way to manage the fidelity of their SS memory extremely well. Compare their storage — with very little known incidents of failure — to even the best third-party solid state aftermarket drives. The actual mean time between failure for the latter is roughly 9 months. That's astonishingly low, especially when you're talking about sensitive, unique data that's at risk.
Your point???
To be less factious, I think Apple or the article write loses the point of the PRO line. It's for professionals, not for kids reading facebook in bed. If you're going to aim a hardware line and spec it for people who want to do more than browse the web, don't discard functionality for style. Optical is dead or mostly and I'd gladly live with a USB DVD drive for all the times I've used it, but when I'm throwing around multi-gig files on a network I don't want to do it via wireless.
To the commenters on the whole thunderbird/USB 3 adaptor: as long as it's included in the box, then it's cool. Asking someone to pay ~$150 for a standard peripheral on top of the ~$2k you've already paid is pushing the limit.
Again I ask what your point is. I don't see how it addresses my comment about Apple having to actively not include USB 3.0 when its a part of the Ivy Bridge microarchitecture they'll be using.
I need a gig ethernet port on a pro, just saying Apple.
ThunderBolt (ports, optical drive, graphic expansion).
For all the Storage naysayers, remote, cloud or server.
Thanks.
And my apologies, my intent was to be a smart ass, not to start a flame war.
Apple would have to be really shitty for not including USB 3.0 once the controller is in the CPU.
Again I ask what your point is. I don't see how it addresses my comment about Apple having to actively not include USB 3.0 when its a part of the Ivy Bridge microarchitecture they'll be using.
That said, I am finally upgrading after FAR too may years and I really need Apple to keep the 15" Pros. I hope Apple remembers that professionals buy their laptops too... I don't need an optical drive enough to have one built in (an external is more than fine for the rare times I use it) And I wouldn't mind the extra space being used for something more beneficial- like a SSD boot
Don't break my heart Apple- stay away from Intel integrated graphics in Pro models.
My original point was a sarcastic response to your comment about them being shitty if they would not including a USB 3 port. "your point?" inferred that yes, I think they would do it. I would sincerely hope that I'm wrong, but USB 3 is somewhat of a competitor to TB.
And my apologies, my intent was to be a smart ass, not to start a flame war.
That's the problem with sarcasm in text form. It can easily be missed.
FireWire is a lot closer to USB than Thunderbolt is yet Apple never removed USB or kept it at USB 1.1 so that FireWire was the only way to power an iDevice and the only feasible way to sync an iDevice. On top of that Apple had a big stake in FireWire where as Thunderbolt is an Intel tech.
Just like Thunderbolt not requiring Apple (or any vendors that use mDP) to add another port, USB 3.0 allows for backwards compatibility with USB 2.0.
Again, it'll be included in the microarchitecture so for Apple not to add it would be shitty.
I'm not. My line of work requires transfer of information between various departments, auditors and 3rd party vendors. We have email caps, so we can't go that way. We don't give out USB drives either. We tried FTP, but some vendors are clueless.
Why not use YouSendit or Dropbox? Very easy to use solutions
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...7&postcount=17
Do I get a cookie?
IPS seems more problematic than HiDPI. I am seeing some IPS panels in other machines but they are still pricey, seem to be low yield at those sizes, but this is Apple we're talking about and even though a 200 PPI* IPS display in a 13" MBP would probably be doable I can't see them doing that until they can put it in the entire line at or near the same time frame.
* HiDPI doesn't need to use a 2x scaling n order to get the appropriate scaling needed, unlike with a window-less OS.
Well a few years ago IPS was extremely expensive, and LG panels weren't so great. Things have changed obviously, but in the past IPS leveraged out older crt displays where quality was needed. Obviously phones were another matter as they became a big point of growth. Given that a number of low cost IPS displays exist, I'm guessing it would be possible in a notebook space if Apple really wanted it. The large premium on such a display is likely due to low volume, but HP has a 15" 1920x1080 with their dreamcolor label. To give Apple credit, the current displays really aren't bad for TN displays. Some of the older ones sucked. If implementation was simple enough they could do something like bump the current "high resolution" display to a standard option and offer IPS as an upgrade with higher resolution. I guess it would be an issue of how many people are willing to pay for such a thing. My point before was that laptops got passed over there. IPS made headway on desktop displays where quality was needed in medical, broadcast, prepress, color grading, etc. to replace aging crts. Then the next big thing was smartphones, although I have no idea what the display cost is for the iphone.
Displays are a really quirky issue though. There are so many aspects and so many small pieces of circuitry that affect performance and stability. I'm not a huge fan of Apple in terms of desktop displays. They have different issues from some of the others on the market.
I called this yesterday.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...7&postcount=17
Do I get a cookie?
Did you take note that the rumor was started by a troll blog?
Why not use YouSendit or Dropbox? Very easy to use solutions
Dropbox at $9.99 per month gets you 50GB. That is probably less than the cost of the shipping of the DVD.
On top of that they will have it on their system ready to go in a much faster time. Plus, if it's just a routine editing of the same basic file it will only sync the changes which can make it nearly instantaneous. Finally, with the paid service all versions are stored indefinitely which means you'll never be more than a few clicks away from older files.
Rumors of a larger 15-inch MacBook Air continue to surface, with the latest claim suggesting Apple is gearing up to launch a larger ultraportable notebook in April. [...]
Who knows? Maybe all these nebulous rumors were triggered when some leaker saw the enclosure for the new 15" MacBook Pro. Thinner, like the MacBook Air. More tapered, like the MacBook Air. No optical drive, like the MacBook Air. None of those changes should surprise anyone in the slightest.
Remember, way back in January 2008, when the first MacBook Air was announced? Steve Jobs pulled one out of that manila envelope and said "We think it's the future of notebooks." The tag line for MacBook Air ads was "The future of notebooks." Well it's been more than four years since then. That particular future is now.