Ex Apple engineer claims Steve Jobs rejected new Apple TV UI 5 years ago [u]

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  • smiles77smiles77 Posts: 667member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post


    I personally like the new UI because of two things:

    1) It is far more scalable to new apps than the previous UI which hid everything in pull down menus. It's more future proof for the App Store for Apple TV we all know is coming.

    2) It's a lot easier for a new user to navigate and find things like Netflix or YouTube.

    3) The new top menu UI means not having to drill back up to the first screen to access different areas of content. Saves a lot of time in my opinion.



    While some may hate the color scheme, I don't see it as being that much different from the iOS UI, which most people seem to like. However, it certainly could be improved by disabling apps you don't want and letting people re-order the apps they do use.



    I agree. I like the new design (21 year-old college student) and my parents (late 40's) do as well. Point of personal preference.
  • rot'napplerot'napple Posts: 1,839member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by msantti View Post


    And why are the app icons rectangular instead of square like on all other iOS devices?



    You're looking at it wrong.



    You knew somebody had to say, might as well be me. \

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    /

    /
  • prof. peabodyprof. peabody Posts: 2,860member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post


    I think it's a horrible idea to put Steve Jobs on a pedestal, because we get things like Address Book and iCal in Lion which I'm pretty sure every tech person universally hates.



    I personally like the new UI because of two things:

    1) It is far more scalable to new apps than the previous UI which hid everything in pull down menus. It's more future proof for the App Store for Apple TV we all know is coming.

    2) It's a lot easier for a new user to navigate and find things like Netflix or YouTube.

    3) The new top menu UI means not having to drill back up to the first screen to access different areas of content. Saves a lot of time in my opinion.



    While some may hate the color scheme, I don't see it as being that much different from the iOS UI, which most people seem to like. However, it certainly could be improved by disabling apps you don't want and letting people re-order the apps they do use.



    To play devil's advocate .. a few obvious things wrong with the new UI:



    - only five icons initially available on a UI that typical spans 40" or more

    - top one third of the UI is taken up by posters (essentially either advertising or needless chrome depending on your pov).

    - blue highlight is now almost invisible, hard to tell even what's highlighted

    - one click down slides entire visual area up by half (jarring and the user needs to "re-find" where they are visually)

    - bright, raw, orange and purple icons side by side (they teach you not to do this in grade 8 art class).



    The change to an "apps-like" UI is an expected and good thing, this particular version of it is ugly and poorly laid out however. It's also a problem to switch to an apps-like UI but then not allow us to arrange or delete apps.



    In my case, the only thing I even need out of the five icons you can originally see is "computers." One line down there is another icon "netflix" that I use, and one level below that, a third icon I use (vimeo). Why should I have to scroll through sports crap and American services that I have no interest in in my country just to get to the stuff I see every day? It's just a bunch of extra clicks for no reason.



    If we could move the icons around and delete all the stuff we don't want to see, this would actually be a fairly good UI in that for me it would consist of a row of the only five buttons I need. Sadly this is not possible.
  • minnesota_steveminnesota_steve Posts: 109member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nagromme View Post


    Thank goodness Margolis is here to step into the spotlight when ?nobody else? at Apple says no to bad design, and the only person who ever did is gone.



    I don?t think AppleTV has ever been all that great, merely interesting (though I?d love AirPlay). But this design is clearly not 5 years old, and is not the same thing Jobs rejected?he presumably rejected something similar in some ways, if the story is true (and that much is certainly plausible).



    And I?m sure ?just one visual designer? is now in charge of user experience at Apple, and may not still be there Clearly this Margolis?s axe to grind is excellent evidence of Apple?s operations.



    Let me guess... Apple is doomed, same as always, same is it will always be. Every tiny imperfection, real or imagined, is the end... while MASSIVE blunders by competitors are OK, and they?ll be pouncing on the now-defunct Apple any day now...



    LOL. But so true. I figure next week's Macalope column will pick up the story.
  • dmarcootdmarcoot Posts: 191member
    It's a terrible design, a step backwards and an eye sore. I shudder to think the best they have to offer now is to implement a 5 year old rejected design.
  • richsadamsrichsadams Posts: 127member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by God of Biscuits View Post


    Hands up if you remember what the Apple tv was and how it was positioned 5 years ago?



    Of COURSE a grid of icons would be a bad idea for an iTunes-only device (basically a video Airport Express), when the iPhone was either not out yet or just barely out (giving the benefit of the doubt) and the world wasn't yet comfortable and familiar with the grid-of-icons concept.



    And it wouldn't have been the first thing that SJ hated at first and then loved later, anyway.



    This.
  • gqbgqb Posts: 1,934member
    The problem is that the old interface just didn't scale. If you think that apps are the new networks or shows, then the hierarchical menus just get clumsy quickly. I agree that the new interface isn't exactly beautiful and needs work, I think it's the right path.
  • tommcintommcin Posts: 108member
    Just bought my first Apple TV and find the interface awkward. Would like to get rid of many of the buttons that are not going to be used by me.



    Accessed the Apple TV via Remote on my iPad and expected to see the TV screen mirrored on my iPad but instead had to swipe around while keeping one eye on the TV and the other watching the iPad. Should be able to point at icons on the iPad. Should also be able to use the virtual keyboard on the iPad to enter data. Scrolling thru the letters is tiresome. If it is supported, it is not obvious.
  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


    It is a startlingly bad UI from almost any point of view and for a variety of reasons.



    People here took me to task when I said Steve would never approve of it. It seems I might have been correct though.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    After about a week with it, I have to agree that the new UI grates. I miss the simplicity and subtlety of the previous one.



    Interestingly, however, my kids (both teenagers) prefer the new UI.



    Can't win them all, I suppose...... \



    I agree with God of Biscuits. 5 years ago it wouldn't have made sense. Today, with an app-based system and AirPlay it's the best UI they've come up with. Is it perfect? No way, because you can't even rearrange or remove icons you don't want which negatively affects the usability when using the IR remote.



    For those saying it's the worst do you not recall Take 2 which was well within Job's rule as CEO?
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 39,493member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GQB View Post


    I agree that the new interface isn't exactly beautiful and needs work, I think it's the right path.



    I just don't get why they wouldn't have just gone with a direct iOS lookalike though, you know?



    Something like this.
  • waldobushmanwaldobushman Posts: 774member
    What does this ex-engineer's opinion about a design 5 years ago have to do with today?



    In Isaacson's biography, SJ was quote as saying he's solved the problem. Most likely it means that the new design is not the design SJ rejected 5 years ago. Right?
  • coffeetimecoffeetime Posts: 116member
    Seeing every "channel" on one screen makes it look like Apple TV has more to offer than before. As for me, it's basically Netflix and iTunes to rent movies, with an occasional diversion to our two computers for music and photos. In other words, the new UI isn't a big deal.
  • jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    Margolis started the discussion by saying on his Twitter account that he "implemented much of the Apple TV 2.0 UI years ago." He added that the new user interface "makes (him) cry."



    Here's the gist of the matter. Margolis is seeking his 15 minutes of fame.



    Anyone who has ready anything about Jobs knows that he was all over the details. Margolis may think that what he did was 'close enough', but it apparently wasn't. He may even have ben part of the way there, but for Jobs, '90% of the way there' was worthless.



    Not to mention, of course, that it may not have been the right design 5 years ago.
  • neilmneilm Posts: 445member
    As anyone whose read the SJ biography knows, Steve would never have "rejected" this interface.



    Called it the "worst f-ing piece of worthless sh!t" he'd ever seen, maybe, but plain "rejected"? Nah, I don't think so!
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 39,493member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post


    In Isaacson's biography, SJ was quote as saying he's solved the problem. Most likely it means that the new design is not the design SJ rejected 5 years ago. Right?



    Who says this design has anything to do with that, either?
  • mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 6,752member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post


    What does this ex-engineer's opinion about a design 5 years ago have to do with today?



    In Isaacson's biography, SJ was quote as saying he's solved the problem. Most likely it means that the new design is not the design SJ rejected 5 years ago. Right?



    Correct.



    And believe it or not, the talent in the UI teams hasn't been depleated. Those groups bring in new talent on a yearly basis.
  • paxmanpaxman Posts: 3,998member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post


    I still like the *first* UI best.



    I'll never use MLB, so why the hell do I have to look at it?



    If the new UI is the first step towards an app based aTV I am certain that the ability to move and remove icons is but a version away.
  • waldobushmanwaldobushman Posts: 774member
    Apple TV is still a hobby and it is not even close to the what will likely be coming out to replace it or incorporated into an Apple television if that is in the future. Little clickers are not where Apple is going with this.



    It's a no brainer what the interface is going to be. An iPodTouch-like remote, with much of the UI we've come to use integrated into controlling a TV, along with voice control.
  • ronboronbo Posts: 669member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Corrections View Post


    How ridiculous. The previous UI was a clumsy bunch of pulldown menus. That's supposed to be better than the more cohesive, iOS-like Home screen?



    The new UI makes sense. It's not ugly, certainly better looking and easier to use than Google TV. We just have the "no longer at Apple" engineer behind the 2.0 version telling us via Twitter that SJ liked his design better than the latest one that makes more sense.



    Oh really. SJ also liked the first versions of iCal, which were crap. SJ was not unerring in his design judgement. Flower Power iMacs? Hockey Puck mouse?



    How much more of these pseudo-revelations of a post-mortem Jobs will we have to read about?



    Hear, hear.
  • artdecodalekartdecodalek Posts: 50member
    U jelly Margolis?
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