Australian government accuses Apple of 'misleading' 4G claims with new iPad

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Comments

  • gatorguygatorguy Posts: 14,136member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by markbyrn View Post


    Well it specifically states on the page I perviously quoted that 4G is only available in the US and Canada. So I guess the issue comes down to word-smithing and it should say 4G is not available in Australia. Even so, if you bought the iPad in Australia (did you?), you can return it within 14 day if you're not satisfied with the speed, advertising, or any other issue you have with it.



    So we agree that Apple should just come out and plainly say in bold type "4G services not available for Australia" rather than the unclear and confusing statements they make in the features description.



    And yes, of course a purchaser can return one if dissatisfied. I think Apple is using the potential 4G feature as a selling point to get them into a buyer's hands. They're hoping (probably correctly) that most who might be disappointed to find no 4G won't also make it enough of an issue to return it, even tho some percentage might not have ordered it in the first place if known that 4G isn't a feature for them.
  • gizmo2k2kgizmo2k2k Posts: 17member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nkhm View Post


    Because 4G is coming on line and being developed now. Normally people complain when 'x' technology isn't included, even though it's not been globally adopted as a standard. This time Apple are ahead of the game. No complaint to be had here. It's not even hidden in the small print- it states clearly that you can connect to 4G where 4G is available. Apple makes no claim about the availability of 4G locally.



    If the iPad had a particular function that would only work in the UK and no where else in the world, is it right that Apple should advertise it around the world with a little small print saying that it will only work in the UK?



    I think it's a little North American bias, to say stop complaining when Apple introduces and advertises functions that are "ahead of the game" when they're not accessible anywhere but USA and Canada. If it was the other way around, you would be annoyed that they're advertising something you have no access to
  • rulebreakerrulebreaker Posts: 32member
    All 3 major carriers in Australia will run 4G over 1800 mhz which is not supported on iPad 3rd Gen.



    I also think this is poor form by apple. Telstra is spending a lot of money advertising their 4G network. Many will think that an iPad wifi + 4G will work on the 4G network and will be disappointed to find out it won't.



    (Optus also is rolling out services at 900mhz and 2300mhz - not sure if they will both carry 4G)
  • rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    My iPhone 4S says 4G in the status bar when it's clearly not a 4G device. Is that misleading? Should the US govt be on Apple's case for it?
  • digitalclipsdigitalclips Posts: 15,030member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post


    The same should happen all over the world. Where I live in the UK the iPad is of course sold as 4G, but there are no 4G networks here, and when there are, they won't work with the iPad 4G.



    It's a scam, and clearly designed to mislead consumers. Of course you can look at the small print and see it's a scam, but how many will do that? It's akin to advertising a car as being capable of doing 200mph*.



    * - when towed by a rocket powered dragster.



    Yes you could buy a rocket powered dragster, or in the iPad's case, travel to America to use it, but in reality that's never going to happen.



    Funny you mention cars. When I had Jaguar XJS in the UK before I emigrated to the US, it had 160 on the speedometer and in Germany I did get it up to 140 and there was more under the pedal, I just chickened out . However, in the UK at the time I was there the limit was 70 so Jaguar should have advertised it as having a maximum speed of 70? That would be pretty bad



    Or perhaps a small label stating in certain countries the product cannot achieve its maximum potential due to limitations imposed by that country, not the device, might be a better solution.



    Meanwhile where are those sheilas that are supposed to appear when I drink Fosters?
  • onhkaonhka Posts: 1,025member
    And as it states right under the ad on the Australian site, which is the same as the US and Canada sites,

    Quote:

    Really really fast is your only option.

    The new iPad supports fast cellular networks the world over.2 So you can browse the web, stream content or download a movie at blazing-fast speeds. It also works on GSM/UMTS worldwide network technologies including HSPA, HSPA+ and DC-HSDPA — the fastest 3G networks out there. You’ll see downlink speeds up to 42 Mbps with DC-HSDPA and up to 21.1 Mbps with HSPA+.3



    And on the Australian iPad Store, it clearly lets you choose a model and further states:

    Quote:

    The iPad with Wi-Fi + 4G model can roam worldwide on fast GSM/UMTS networks, including HSPA, HSPA+, and DC-HSDPA. When you travel internationally, you can use a micro-SIM card from a local carrier. You can also connect to the 4G LTE networks of AT&T in the U.S. and Bell, Rogers, and Telus in Canada.



    This is a world-wide launch. Attempting to satisfy all the idiosyncrasies for every country and having to modify each and every time it changed would be ludicrous. One would think that Aussies never leave their continent.



    And this is a country (as all countries) that post laws such as:

    Quote:
    • Children may not purchase cigarettes, but they may smoke them.

    • You may never leave your car keys in an unattended vehicle.

    • It is illegal to roam the streets wearing black clothes, felt shoes and black shoe polish on your face as these items are the tools of a cat burgular.

    • It is illegal to walk on the right hand side of a footpath.

    • Under Australian Communications Authority (ACA) regulations, a modem can’t pick up on the first ring.

    • Taxi cabs are required to carry a bale of hay in the trunk.

    • Bars are required to stable, water and feed the horses of their patrons.

    • The legal age for straight sex is 16, unless the person is in the care/custody of the older person, in which case it is 18.

    • Only licensed electricians may change a light bulb.

    • It is illegal to wear hot pink pants after midday Sunday.

    • You must have a neck to knee swimsuit in order to swim at Brighton Beach.

    • Until the Port Arthur Killings it was legal to own an AK-47 but not legal to be gay.

    • Lawmakers are proposing a new law that will not allow anyone to come closer than 100 meters from a dead whale’s carcass.




    P.S. No one is immune from such stupidity.



    By the way, my car has a top speed of 220 km/hr. Should it have a sticker on it that states, "Not in your driveway".
  • markbyrnmarkbyrn Posts: 556member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    So we agree that Apple should just come out and plainly say in bold type "4G services not available for Australia" rather than the unclear and confusing statements they make in the features description.



    And yes, of course a purchaser can return one if dissatisfied. I think Apple is using the potential 4G feature as a selling point to get them into a buyer's hands. They're hoping (probably correctly) that most who might be disappointed to find no 4G won't also make it enough of an issue to return it, even tho some percentage might not have ordered it in the first place if known that 4G isn't a feature for them.



    So now you're reduced to claiming it's not in sufficiently bold type - how about if Apple adds a large red sticker on the box that says, "4G only available in US and Canada"? Make you happy than? Also, can you point out where Australians consumers who purchased the iPad are now complaining that they got hood-winked by the advertising? Did this government agency take action because of consumer complaints?
  • asciiascii Posts: 5,363member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ironsword View Post


    The question we have to ask is "is it legitimate for Apple to call the new iPad "4G" if the hardware supports the technology even though it can't be used in the market it is being sold in?". What does 4G mean to the average consumer? Being able to reach "4G" speeds or actually being able to connect to a network that is being marketed by a carrier as 4G/LTE?

    It's all a bit of a mess really.



    4G is not a technology, it's a category of technologies. LTE is one technology in that category but not the only one. HSPA+ is another one and Australia has it.



    Yes, 2 years ago HSPA+ was categorised only as 3.5G, but then the ITU changed the classifications and now it is officially 4G.
  • charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,061member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ajmas View Post


    This is only once you open the box. The problem is with the advertising that try to sell a feature that is unusable in the geography. In Australia it is effectively a 3G device. This is part if the problem when a specification I a Lipitor loose on what can be a GSM 4G device.



    Look at the photo that was posted with the article "UP TO" 4g speeds. That doesn't equal 4g anymore than "up to 10 hours" equals that you will always get 10 hours. That additional note likely clarifies just as they did in the keynote, that LTE is only in the US. Making the claims of confusion a tad false. Especially since you can always ask in the store and they will tell you that it is 3g only in that area.
  • knightlieknightlie Posts: 282member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mrochester View Post


    I don't think that excuses Apple from advertising a feature that cant be used in the uk.



    Nor does it exclude the phone companies from advertising and describing incompatible technologies under the umbrella term "4G", and yet I see predictably few complaints about that in this thread...
  • toruktoruk Posts: 38member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mavis View Post


    I have to say, I think this is great. The fact that Apple calls it the "Wi-Fi + 4G" model is misleading, as the iPad is not capable of using 4G here in Japan. It may not matter to those of you in the States, but everywhere else in the world, it matters.



    I agree. The iPad supports the 700 MHz and 2,100 MHz frequencies which is used in the United States and Canada for 4G LTE networking. The present and future 4G networks in Europe will use the 800 MHz, 1,800 MHz and 2,600 MHz cellular bands.



    The cellular-enable iPad should be labeled accordingly, i.e. '3G' worldwide and '4G' in the United States and Canada.
  • gatorguygatorguy Posts: 14,136member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by markbyrn View Post


    So now you're reduced to claiming it's not in sufficiently bold type - how about if Apple adds a large red sticker on the box that says, "4G only available in US and Canada"? Make you happy than? Also, can you point out where Australians consumers who purchased the iPad are now complaining that they got hood-winked by the advertising? Did this government agency take action because of consumer complaints?



    Question for you: Should stating that 4G is available only in North America be more than a footnote? Apparently the Aussie government isn't of the opinion that it's sufficient notice or they wouldn't threaten an injunction
  • hill60hill60 Posts: 6,952member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Toruk View Post


    I agree. The iPad supports the 700 MHz and 2,100 MHz frequencies which is used in the United States and Canada for 4G LTE networking. The present and future 4G networks in Europe will use the 800 MHz, 1,800 MHz and 2,600 MHz cellular bands.



    The cellular-enable iPad should be labeled accordingly, i.e. '3G' worldwide and '4G' in the United States and Canada.



    If you buy it somewhere else and travel to the US, it suddenly becomes 4G compatible and you CAN use it on 4G i.e. it is 4G.



    btw, what about parts of the world with only 2G available, would they need another disclaimer?
  • suddenly newtonsuddenly newton Posts: 12,940member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mavis View Post


    I have to say, I think this is great. The fact that Apple calls it the "Wi-Fi + 4G" model is misleading, as the iPad is not capable of using 4G here in Japan. It may not matter to those of you in the States, but everywhere else in the world, it matters.



    Please. That's no different than if you sued Apple for selling you an iPad in an American city not covered by 4G LTE service. The iPad contains 4G LTE hardware. So you say it's wrong to call it what it is? Then it must be wrong to advertise the iPad as having tethering capabilities because some networks don't allow tethering.
  • charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,061member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tomnryan View Post


    That would hold true if Australia didn't have a 4G network. The problem is that Australia has a 4G network that works fine with many 4G phones and computers. The iPad only works on 4G in North America, and not on any of the 4G networks around the world. I believe it is good that Apple is being told that this is not good enough.



    Not true. the iPad only works with LTE in NA but there are a number of 3g nets that operate at speeds that can be defined as 4g and the iPad works fine with those in several countries. Just as the iPhone 4 and 4s do. Australia is very possibly one of that several



    It's a terminology definition issue same as many folks only consider 1080p to be HD (and some only if the audio and bitrate are blu-ray standard) when use of the term for 720p is totally legit



    There's no place on Apple's website where it says that the iPad works with LTE in Australia and several where it says that it doesn't work with that flavor in the US. The TV ads don't claim it works with LTE in said country either. So this is based on it being called the '4g' iPad and that's thin
  • hill60hill60 Posts: 6,952member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    Question for you: Should stating that 4G is available only in North America be more than a footnote? Apparently the Aussie government isn't of the opinion that it's sufficient notice or they wouldn't threaten an injunction



    Why not, it's acceptable practice for anything else that's advertised in Australia.



    If I buy a 4G handset from Telstra, which is advertised as such in large lettering, should I be able to sue because I know it won't work in my area?
  • charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,061member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    So they find out no when they go to activate it after paying and receiving their new iPad from Apple? Not Apple's problem according to you?



    1. it works on 3g



    2. if that it doesn't work on 4g is such a big deal (and they missed all the warnings) then they just return it. Apple will take it back for at least 14 days after purchase in every country.
  • suddenly newtonsuddenly newton Posts: 12,940member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by markbyrn View Post


    So now you're reduced to claiming it's not in sufficiently bold type - how about if Apple adds a large red sticker on the box that says, "4G only available in US and Canada"? Make you happy than? Also, can you point out where Australians consumers who purchased the iPad are now complaining that they got hood-winked by the advertising? Did this government agency take action because of consumer complaints?



    Actually, for people like this, Apple can do no right unless it adopts Android and makes bigger phones and smaller tablets and sells at negative profits. Period.
  • toruktoruk Posts: 38member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    If you buy it somewhere else and travel to the US, it suddenly becomes 4G compatible and you CAN use it on 4G i.e. it is 4G.



    btw, what about parts of the world with only 2G available, would they need another disclaimer?



    The United Kingdom, European Union and I think that a product should be marketed in accordance with the country in which it is sold.
  • charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,061member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


    My iPhone 4S says 4G in the status bar when it's clearly not a 4G device. Is that misleading? Should the US govt be on Apple's case for it?



    your iPhone says that because it is a 4g device. It just isn't an LTE device. But it is a legit status based on the actual definition of 4g which is based on speed and not style. Your iPhone was in an area with the required speed to be termed 4g
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