Religious Atrocity Vol 3: "Taxpayer subsidized youth kidnapping!"

brbr
Posted:
in PoliticalOutsider edited January 2014
http://abcnews.go.com/US/church-stag...4#.T3NPJY401ky



Glad to see people's "charitable" deductions at work here. Traumatizing teenagers by kidnapping them at gunpoint? Well, only if it's to show how persecuted Christians are.



Quote:

Adults, including an off-duty cop, brandished weapons and put bags over the heads of the children, ages 13 through 18, and forced them into a church van. The group was driven to the home of an assistant pastor, who was presented before the group with a seemingly bloodied and bruised face, according to Dauphin County District Attorney Fran Chardo.



One of the adults used a real AK-47, though the gun was unloaded, Chardo said.



Disgraceful. Thankfully, the district attorney is looking into pressing charges. They better--especially after the pastor showed no fucking remorse.



Quote:

The pastor, John Lanza, told the news station that the teens were not let in on the truth "to secure the shock value of it and to make it much more real because those who are threatened don't have a warning. It was a youth event to illustrate what others have encountered on a regular basis."



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Comments

  • jazzgurujazzguru Posts: 6,435member
    A stupid and dangerous thing to do, for sure. The initiation of aggression against peaceful people is immoral and illegitimate.



    But tax money actually is funding the very real destruction of lives and property at home (War on Drugs) and abroad (War on Terror).



    I'm waiting for you to create threads specifically devoted to expressing your outrage over those things, too.
  • brbr Posts: 8,255member
    I've very much made threads and/or voiced my opinion very vehemently about legalizing all drugs and ending the war on terror. Perhaps you just don't remember. Perhaps you are distracting from the topic at hand--religious nutbaggery.
  • jazzgurujazzguru Posts: 6,435member
    You've created "Government Atrocity" threads? Where?
  • brbr Posts: 8,255member
    Mmm, distractions. Now he's quibbling about thread titles. How cute.



    Should the adults in this case be charged with kidnapping and child endangerment? I say yes. What say ye? The church also should lose its tax exempt status.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BR View Post


    Mmm, distractions. Now he's quibbling about thread titles. How cute.



    Should the adults in this case be charged with kidnapping and child endangerment? I say yes. What say ye?



    Yes.



    Now maybe we should discuss other examples where people use force, violence and fear against people.
  • jazzgurujazzguru Posts: 6,435member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BR View Post


    Mmm, distractions. Now he's quibbling about thread titles. How cute.



    Should the adults in this case be charged with kidnapping and child endangerment? I say yes. What say ye? The church also should lose its tax exempt status.



    Hmm. So an organization which engages in the initiation of aggression against peaceful people should be denied "legitimate" status and the individuals running the organization should be charged as criminals, you say?



    Should this same standard not also be applied to government?
  • brbr Posts: 8,255member
    Yes. Police officers throughout the country should lose their jobs and be imprisoned for what they have done to the peaceful Occupy protesters. Oh? Not what you meant? You are conflating disparate situations and stretching terminology. I call shenanigans.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BR View Post


    Yes. Police officers throughout the country should lose their jobs and be imprisoned for what they have done to the peaceful Occupy protesters.



    Any other examples that raise your ire?



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege



    http://www.naturalnews.com/033280_FD..._timeline.html



    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/05/us/05raw.html



    http://www.wnd.com/2008/12/84594/



    http://www.nytimes.com/1998/04/30/us...ds-by-irs.html



    http://journal.livingfood.us/2011/04...irm-in-oregon/
  • brbr Posts: 8,255member
    Why don't you make a thread about that, MJ? For now, I'd like to try to stick to the original topic--the myth that Christians in America are being persecuted and the lengths to which some of these taxpayer subsidized organizations are attempting to frighten America's children.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BR View Post


    Why don't you make a thread about that, MJ? For now, I'd like to try to stick to the original topic--the myth that Christians in America are being persecuted and the lengths to which some of these taxpayer subsidized organizations are attempting to frighten America's children.



    I was just wondering i those other examples outrage you.



    As to the "myth that Christians in America are being persecuted"...I don't know that there's any such myth. I'm sure some folks think there's widespread persecution...but I don't see this as something that's concerning or even on the minds of 99% of Christians in America.



    Sure, there are people who are hateful toward Christians (and other religious people), like yourself for example. But, at least in the circles I run, there's not really any talk about any widespread persecution.



    As to frightening "America's children"...I don't know who you're talking about. You've found one example of some specific people who tried to frighten some specific children of some specific parents.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Here's a fun one. This kind of thing is actually going on on a regular basis in schools across the country. And another.
  • sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 16,209member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    Here's a fun one. This kind of thing is actually going on on a regular basis in schools across the country. And another.



    Idiots. I'd love to have been at the board meeting in that latter example.
  • sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 16,209member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BR View Post


    I've very much made threads and/or voiced my opinion very vehemently about legalizing all drugs and ending the war on terror. Perhaps you just don't remember. Perhaps you are distracting from the topic at hand--religious nutbaggery.



    While I certainly think this church and pastor acted stupidly and dangerously, I don't think it qualifies as "religious nutbaggery." It seems to me it's more about ridiculously bad judgement. It's the same as MJ's school examples in that sense. The intended lesson is valid in each case, but the way of teaching it is dumb, dangerous and horribly misguided.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post


    You've created "Government Atrocity" threads? Where?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BR View Post


    Mmm, distractions. Now he's quibbling about thread titles. How cute.



    You're entire existence here is a distraction, BR. You jump on every example of Christians, conservatives, libertarians and anyone who doesn't share your worldview acting badly. You then summarily dismiss all examples of leftists, atheists, statists, dictators, actual religious nutbags and terrorists acting badly. You assail conservatives as being heartless racists, bigots, homophobes and idiots...and ignore examples of heartlessness, racism, bigotry, homophobia and idiocy on the left.



    Distraction indeed.



    Quote:



    Should the adults in this case be charged with kidnapping and child endangerment? I say yes. What say ye?



    There was no criminal intent, so I disagree. There might be some lesser charge that would be appropriate. No criminal intent and no physical harm make it hard to prosecute anything else.



    Quote:



    The church also should lose its tax exempt status.



    Whatever. You'll throw that out there in ANY case to see if it sticks as it's clearly one of your ultimate goals for all churches.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    While I certainly think this church and pastor acted stupidly and dangerously, I don't think it qualifies as "religious nutbaggery." It seems to me it's more about ridiculously bad judgement. It's the same as MJ's school examples in that sense. The intended lesson is valid in each case, but the way of teaching it is dumb, dangerous and horribly misguided.



    I think we disagree on the validity of the intended lesson in all of these cases.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Hey, there's even more fun stuff from tax-payer subsidized organizations doing kidnapping:



    http://coeurdalene.kxly.com/news/sch...acuation-drill



    http://www.kcci.com/education/21501208/detail.html



    http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...&notFound=true



    http://townhall.com/columnists/miche...s_strike_again



    What's more, apparently it's now the law that schools must do this kind of thing monthly.
  • sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 16,209member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    I think we disagree on the validity of the intended lesson in all of these cases.



    Really? I'm surprised. Teaching children about the persecution of Christians in other nations is not a valid lesson? Conducting emergency drills in case of armed intruder/violent incident in a school?



    Both of these are quite valid in my opinion. It's their method of teaching that's the problem. In fact, let's not understate it...the method was completely stupid and dangerous in both cases.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    Really? I'm surprised.



    I wasn't really clear what lessons you were alluding to. But you've clarified, so let me also...





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    Teaching children about the persecution of Christians in other nations is not a valid lesson?



    Yes it is valid topic of discussion and, as you pointed out, the means use din the posted example exhibited very poor judgement.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    Conducting emergency drills in case of armed intruder/violent incident in a school?



    This one is a bit less clear to me. I acknowledge that these events have unfortunately become a problem in gun-free zones like schools. However, I'm seeing the school increasingly creating a mentality of fear (shooters, bombs, terrorists, etc.) and wonder whether the concern is truly about student safety or whether there's an underlying motive to keep people off-balance through fear.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    It's their method of teaching that's the problem. In fact, let's not understate it...the method was completely stupid and dangerous in both cases.



    That's a fair point. The methodology is the primary concern here.
  • trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,271member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BR View Post


    http://abcnews.go.com/US/church-stag...4#.T3NPJY401ky



    Glad to see people's "charitable" deductions at work here. Traumatizing teenagers by kidnapping them at gunpoint? Well, only if it's to show how persecuted Christians are.







    Disgraceful. Thankfully, the district attorney is looking into pressing charges. They better--especially after the pastor showed no fucking remorse.



    Stupid people can come in any form and shape. I suppose next you'll best posting about the astronaut that drove in a diaper to attack someone.



    Oh you won't because you have a blind spot.



    Want to see a prime example of stupid, look at anyone who applies exception as the rule. They are as dumb as a bag of hammers.
  • sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 16,209member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    I wasn't really clear what lessons you were alluding to. But you've clarified, so let me also...









    Yes it is valid topic of discussion and, as you pointed out, the means use din the posted example exhibited very poor judgement.





    This one is a bit less clear to me. I acknowledge that these events have unfortunately become a problem in gun-free zones like schools. However, I'm seeing the school increasingly creating a mentality of fear (shooters, bombs, terrorists, etc.) and wonder whether the concern is truly about student safety or whether there's an underlying motive to keep people off-balance through fear.





    That's a fair point. The methodology is the primary concern here.



    Your perspective clearly comes from two places here...a distrust of all government to some degree (usually healthy, might I add!) and a lack of experience working or being in a modern school (which is fine...I'm just saying it's obvious from the concern you raise).



    I've participated in many drills during my years teaching. Fire drills are mandated once per month. We have several shelter drills for weather events. We also have at least two "lockdown" drills, where teachers move students to an area of rooms away from windows as much as possible, lock their doors, etc. I've also participated in emergency drills where various scenarios where presented, from a "bus accident" on school property, to an intruder on school grounds. Last month, the neighboring elementary had an actual lockdown (not a drill) because of gunshots fired somewhere nearby. I've seen other schools conduct Columbine-type drills to come up with good safety procedures should something like that occur.



    I am 100% positive none of these actions have ever been motivated by "a desire to keep off-balance through fear." In fact, with all due respect, that suggestion is almost laughable from my perspective. We're not dealing with the Department of Homeland Security or the NSA here. We're dealing with local school boards comprised of elected soccer moms and baseball dads, and local school officials whose sole concern is the well-being of their students and staff.
  • floorjackfloorjack Posts: 2,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    ....



    We're not dealing with the Department of Homeland Security or the NSA here. We're dealing with local school boards comprised of elected soccer moms and baseball dads, and local school officials whose sole concern is the well-being of their students and staff.



    My local school board is just a bunch of union shills. Bought and paid for.







    My kids school did their "lock down" drill. Of course they informed people ahead of time and my kid thought it was fun cramming the entire class into one small office. Good thing they are second graders or they would never fit.
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