If the sim was still a proper standard, you could use an iPhone sim in an iPad.
not at all. the ICCID is registered into a pay as you go system for the iPad unlike the iPhone where it is a contract system. the shape and mechanics of the sim don't change that.
Earlier this week, it was revealed that Apple had pledged[/URL] to offer royalty-free licensing of its nano-SIM design if the proposal was accepted and all other patent holders agreed to the same terms.
I think that is a pretty ingenious move by apple to force Nokia to license it's 50 patent families essential to the SIM technology for free. Just from the age of the SIM technology I assume that Apple holds no patents in that technology.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
As many as 50 patent families held by Nokia could be essential to the Apple's design.
By building on that technology and offering it to ETSI under the mentioned terms they can further on use the technology for free (as long as ETSI chooses Apple's design).
Even if Apple doesn't succeed with it's move the licenses for the SIM technology will cost Apple the same as it does now, but Apple has put a pretty bad sting into Nokia's flesh.
Sounds like they're mainly frustrated by the idea of someone licensing for free what they'd like to license for $$. Nothing wrong with getting revenue for your hard work, but you've got to walk a very fine line in what you actually complain about. It seems to me that Nokia's complaints have an odd ring to them.
And where is that slot. Because if it is in the phone, under the battery, where cell phones often have their SIM how is that any less cumbersome than Apple's tray that opens up with a metal pin and doesn't require you opening the phone back.
Seemingly not. Without Nokia, Apple's format is worthless.
The real story here is that Apple wants to contribute something of little worth, a format, while forcing other companies to forego royalties on technology of great worth.
So let's see. Apple submits their proposal royalty free. Other companies submit their proposals as well, royalty free and Nokia targets Apple only? Really what does Nokia see that is really a threat? This seems to be a means to try and discredit Apple's offer in order to get another design approved. Pretty lame strategy if you ask me. Just makes me not want to buy anything Nokia. Even if I wasn't buying an iPhone.
Everybody always picks on the underdog, Apple. It is not fair.
Apple's suggested nano SIM is pin-for-pin backward compatible with the existing standard. Nokia's is not to the slightest degree. Why are you siding against Apple in this case? Why do you want Nokia to screw with the standard?
Because that is all beside the point.
The point is that Apple wants to give away something of little value for free, in exchange for things of great value that would need to be given away for free.
Nokia should rightly tell Apple "Thanks, but no thanks."
You drew the exact opposite conclusion that I would have. I'm more skeptical of their motivations than before precisely because the "jamming" objection is so trifling to fix that it makes them sound like they're grasping at straws to raise this as a deal breaker to the whole submission. A submission to standard is subject to changes before being accepted, it looks like a trivial change.
For other parties to make a submission for a card that breaks pinout compatibility, that seems more suspicious to me, when each iteration kept compatibility.
But is that Nokia's main objection? From what I read Apple's proposal is free if all associated patents for the SIM are also made free. If that is correct then Apple ends up saving money and Nokia ends up losing money. Now ETSI could say we'll go with Apple's design if only they drop their cross licensing requirement, otherwise they'll go with Nokia or RiM, and Apple might decide to go that route. I guess we'll see tomorrow.
Fortunately Nokia's power and relevance is not what it once was.
Nokia was once a huge conglomerate, making everything from rubber galoshes to smart phones to car tires to paper products to chemicals. They divested themselves of all non-telecommunications businesses in the 1990s.
Oops. Maybe they should have kept their Nokian Footwear business. They were a world leader in rubber boots.
The point is that Apple wants to give away something of little value for free, in exchange for things of great value that would need to be given away for free.
Nokia should rightly tell Apple "Thanks, but no thanks."
And they have the right to do that.
If Apple's design is chosen as the standard, Nokia would have to negotiate a license fee (both ways). No different than if Apple hadn't made their "ours is free if you make yours free" proposal.
Nokia loses nothing here - except that they look like bad guys, but that's too flipping bad.
So let's see. Apple submits their proposal royalty free. Other companies submit their proposals as well, royalty free and Nokia targets Apple only? Really what does Nokia see that is really a threat? This seems to be a means to try and discredit Apple's offer in order to get another design approved. Pretty lame strategy if you ask me. Just makes me not want to buy anything Nokia. Even if I wasn't buying an iPhone.
It's not actually royalty free. It's leveraged, meaning it does actually cost them. The leverage is the shape of a piece of plastic offered free against everything else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical
That seems rather like extortion, doesn't it? It's a lot like the kid with the ball in the playground who says, "we play the game I want to play, or I take my ball and go home."
Another fine example for the "anti IP" crowd to point to as an illustration of how IP patents stymie progress and innovation. In this case, they might be right.
Again I'm wondering if this design solves real problems or if Apple is just trying to increase their margins by reducing their licensing costs by offering something with relatively flat benefit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scaramanga89
It is an attempted stroke by Apple - Nokia are entitled to be paid for their IP like anyone else - Apple want a free lunch by asking everyone to licence their IP for free, when they have absolutely nothing to bring to the party - a party they have contributed nothing to in the past either I might add. Nokia and the others have spent billions improving the SIM cards we all use today, Nokia in particular with 3G technology. Why should Apple be allowed to just come along and soak up the benefits? Should anyone? No.
Get the facts in line here folks, Nokia has a point here.
You might like this. It's not one of my favorite sites. It just mentions how Apple can gain voting power there. They have more money, so they can force things if necessary, which in itself isn't really a good thing. Welcome to the new Microsoft.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
But is that Nokia's main objection? From what I read Apple's proposal is free if all associated patents for the SIM are also made free. If that is correct then Apple ends up saving money and Nokia ends up losing money. Now ETSI could say we'll go with Apple's design if only they drop their cross licensing requirement, otherwise they'll go with Nokia or RiM, and Apple might decide to go that route. I guess we'll see tomorrow.
Well Apple is trying to suggest that changing the shape of a piece of plastic is equal in value to the combination rest of these by the terms offered.
Rubbish, nokia has gotten hit 4 Yeats in a row since 2008 and smartphone surge.
Nokia owns the best voice patents, even iPhone 4s doesn't come close to the quality of voice from a Nokia phone. I ve had plenty of Nokia and iPhones and it's as self evident.
Nokia also unlike apple doesn't have a dozen antennae engineers but tens of them, that's why the have so far not produced a phone that would short circuit itself to low signal.
Nokia to the phone industry is zerox park to computers, credit where credit is due.
In terms of the sim issue I think Nokia are justified here, it's their patented work. If apple want to push forward a new sim design they should cough it up and pay for Nokia patents.
Nokia also unlike apple doesn't have a dozen antennae engineers but tens of them, that's why the have so far not produced a phone that would short circuit itself to low signal.
I see I elicited a very strong reaction, the truth hurts, that apple managed to screw up so badly in antennae design in the 4, but I guess to you apple is indeed perfect ("nobody's perfect remember). The fact is so far Nokia haven't released a phone that did short circuit itself via normal usage and dropped it's signal, and they do certainly have much more antennae engineers than apple. Nokia is a stellar phone company that lost it's market when mobile phones became computer/phone hybrids. That's their fault of course, but I doubt they had the resources to do much better. They still surpass apple in voice quality easily and they have tons of patents they should be payed for that can't just be bypassed by changing a piece of plastic.
Comments
If the sim was still a proper standard, you could use an iPhone sim in an iPad.
not at all. the ICCID is registered into a pay as you go system for the iPad unlike the iPhone where it is a contract system. the shape and mechanics of the sim don't change that.
Earlier this week, it was revealed that Apple had pledged[/URL] to offer royalty-free licensing of its nano-SIM design if the proposal was accepted and all other patent holders agreed to the same terms.
I think that is a pretty ingenious move by apple to force Nokia to license it's 50 patent families essential to the SIM technology for free. Just from the age of the SIM technology I assume that Apple holds no patents in that technology.
As many as 50 patent families held by Nokia could be essential to the Apple's design.
By building on that technology and offering it to ETSI under the mentioned terms they can further on use the technology for free (as long as ETSI chooses Apple's design).
Even if Apple doesn't succeed with it's move the licenses for the SIM technology will cost Apple the same as it does now, but Apple has put a pretty bad sting into Nokia's flesh.
And where is that slot. Because if it is in the phone, under the battery, where cell phones often have their SIM how is that any less cumbersome than Apple's tray that opens up with a metal pin and doesn't require you opening the phone back.
Good point.
Nokia lost its relevance in 2001.
Seemingly not. Without Nokia, Apple's format is worthless.
The real story here is that Apple wants to contribute something of little worth, a format, while forcing other companies to forego royalties on technology of great worth.
They are shameless.
So let's see. Apple submits their proposal royalty free. Other companies submit their proposals as well, royalty free and Nokia targets Apple only? Really what does Nokia see that is really a threat? This seems to be a means to try and discredit Apple's offer in order to get another design approved. Pretty lame strategy if you ask me. Just makes me not want to buy anything Nokia. Even if I wasn't buying an iPhone.
Everybody always picks on the underdog, Apple. It is not fair.
Apple's suggested nano SIM is pin-for-pin backward compatible with the existing standard. Nokia's is not to the slightest degree. Why are you siding against Apple in this case? Why do you want Nokia to screw with the standard?
Because that is all beside the point.
The point is that Apple wants to give away something of little value for free, in exchange for things of great value that would need to be given away for free.
Nokia should rightly tell Apple "Thanks, but no thanks."
You drew the exact opposite conclusion that I would have. I'm more skeptical of their motivations than before precisely because the "jamming" objection is so trifling to fix that it makes them sound like they're grasping at straws to raise this as a deal breaker to the whole submission. A submission to standard is subject to changes before being accepted, it looks like a trivial change.
For other parties to make a submission for a card that breaks pinout compatibility, that seems more suspicious to me, when each iteration kept compatibility.
But is that Nokia's main objection? From what I read Apple's proposal is free if all associated patents for the SIM are also made free. If that is correct then Apple ends up saving money and Nokia ends up losing money. Now ETSI could say we'll go with Apple's design if only they drop their cross licensing requirement, otherwise they'll go with Nokia or RiM, and Apple might decide to go that route. I guess we'll see tomorrow.
Fortunately Nokia's power and relevance is not what it once was.
Nokia was once a huge conglomerate, making everything from rubber galoshes to smart phones to car tires to paper products to chemicals. They divested themselves of all non-telecommunications businesses in the 1990s.
Oops. Maybe they should have kept their Nokian Footwear business. They were a world leader in rubber boots.
Because that is all beside the point.
The point is that Apple wants to give away something of little value for free, in exchange for things of great value that would need to be given away for free.
Nokia should rightly tell Apple "Thanks, but no thanks."
And they have the right to do that.
If Apple's design is chosen as the standard, Nokia would have to negotiate a license fee (both ways). No different than if Apple hadn't made their "ours is free if you make yours free" proposal.
Nokia loses nothing here - except that they look like bad guys, but that's too flipping bad.
So let's see. Apple submits their proposal royalty free. Other companies submit their proposals as well, royalty free and Nokia targets Apple only? Really what does Nokia see that is really a threat? This seems to be a means to try and discredit Apple's offer in order to get another design approved. Pretty lame strategy if you ask me. Just makes me not want to buy anything Nokia. Even if I wasn't buying an iPhone.
It's not actually royalty free. It's leveraged, meaning it does actually cost them. The leverage is the shape of a piece of plastic offered free against everything else.
That seems rather like extortion, doesn't it? It's a lot like the kid with the ball in the playground who says, "we play the game I want to play, or I take my ball and go home."
Another fine example for the "anti IP" crowd to point to as an illustration of how IP patents stymie progress and innovation. In this case, they might be right.
Again I'm wondering if this design solves real problems or if Apple is just trying to increase their margins by reducing their licensing costs by offering something with relatively flat benefit.
It is an attempted stroke by Apple - Nokia are entitled to be paid for their IP like anyone else - Apple want a free lunch by asking everyone to licence their IP for free, when they have absolutely nothing to bring to the party - a party they have contributed nothing to in the past either I might add. Nokia and the others have spent billions improving the SIM cards we all use today, Nokia in particular with 3G technology. Why should Apple be allowed to just come along and soak up the benefits? Should anyone? No.
Get the facts in line here folks, Nokia has a point here.
You might like this. It's not one of my favorite sites. It just mentions how Apple can gain voting power there. They have more money, so they can force things if necessary, which in itself isn't really a good thing. Welcome to the new Microsoft.
But is that Nokia's main objection? From what I read Apple's proposal is free if all associated patents for the SIM are also made free. If that is correct then Apple ends up saving money and Nokia ends up losing money. Now ETSI could say we'll go with Apple's design if only they drop their cross licensing requirement, otherwise they'll go with Nokia or RiM, and Apple might decide to go that route. I guess we'll see tomorrow.
Well Apple is trying to suggest that changing the shape of a piece of plastic is equal in value to the combination rest of these by the terms offered.
Nokia lost its relevance in 2001.
Rubbish, nokia has gotten hit 4 Yeats in a row since 2008 and smartphone surge.
Nokia owns the best voice patents, even iPhone 4s doesn't come close to the quality of voice from a Nokia phone. I ve had plenty of Nokia and iPhones and it's as self evident.
Nokia also unlike apple doesn't have a dozen antennae engineers but tens of them, that's why the have so far not produced a phone that would short circuit itself to low signal.
Nokia to the phone industry is zerox park to computers, credit where credit is due.
In terms of the sim issue I think Nokia are justified here, it's their patented work. If apple want to push forward a new sim design they should cough it up and pay for Nokia patents.
Well Apple is trying to suggest that changing the shape of a piece of plastic is equal in value to the combination rest of these by the terms offered.
That doesn't seem very fair to me. I'm not seeing any non-obvious innovation with removing more plastic but maintaining the same contact plate design.
Nokia also unlike apple doesn't have a dozen antennae engineers but tens of them, that's why the have so far not produced a phone that would short circuit itself to low signal.
What a fucking stupid comment.
This is how Nokia is sounding to me.
LOL
Maybe that Henri Tirri guy...
...went like this (rough day at the office):
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n19AvQ9XBlo
The article from that picture of him is interesting (Nokia site)What a fucking stupid comment.
I see I elicited a very strong reaction, the truth hurts, that apple managed to screw up so badly in antennae design in the 4, but I guess to you apple is indeed perfect ("nobody's perfect remember). The fact is so far Nokia haven't released a phone that did short circuit itself via normal usage and dropped it's signal, and they do certainly have much more antennae engineers than apple. Nokia is a stellar phone company that lost it's market when mobile phones became computer/phone hybrids. That's their fault of course, but I doubt they had the resources to do much better. They still surpass apple in voice quality easily and they have tons of patents they should be payed for that can't just be bypassed by changing a piece of plastic.