Nokia to refuse licensing SIM patents if ETSI chooses Apple design

Posted:
in iPhone edited January 2014


Finnish handset maker Nokia has said that it will elect not to license essential SIM-related patents to a new nano-SIM standard if the European Telecommunications Standards Institute chooses Apple's design over its own.



Both Nokia and Apple have been busy lobbying for their respective designs ahead of an ETSI vote on Thursday. Nokia fired off the latest salvo with a state threat not to participate if Apple wins the competition to set the design for the "fourth form factor (4FF) UICC," also dubbed "nano-SIM."



In a statement to The Verge, the handset maker said it had informed ETSI that, if Apple's proposal is selected, it will "not license its relevant patents to that standard."



As many as 50 patent families held by Nokia could be essential to the Apple's design.



Nokia did say that it's objections to Apple's proposal "have never been related to intellectual property." Instead, the company takes issue with Apple's nano-SIM design because it believes the specification does not meet ETSI's technical requirements.





Oberthur Technologies' nano-SIM prototype. | Source: The Verge







"As a result of the issues with the 4FF standardization work, Nokia is not willing to contribute its own IPR to the standard, if the Apple proposal is selected in violation of ETSI's rules," the statement read.



Nokia executive vice president and CTO Henry Tirri said, "We believe that Apple is mis-using the standardization process, seeking to impose its own proprietary solution on the industry and using ETSI merely to rubber stamp its proposal, rather than following established principles and practices.



"We urge ETSI members to resist this behaviour, which is not in the best interests of the industry or, more importantly, of consumers."



The company was, however, quick to disclaim that the decision not to support Apple's proposal "has no impact on Nokia's existing commitments to license its standard essential patents under FRAND terms to earlier adopted ETSI standards."



Earlier this week, it was revealed that Apple had pledged to offer royalty-free licensing of its nano-SIM design if the proposal was accepted and all other patent holders agreed to the same terms. Nokia responded by dismissing the pledge as "no more than an attempt to devalue" its competitors' intellectual property. The company said it was not aware of Apple holding any essential patents for its proposal.



[ View article on AppleInsider ]

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Comments

  • dfergensondfergenson Posts: 24member
    Is anyone reading this sufficiently "in-the-know" to post a reasonable primer on these nano-SIMS, the standardization process, the competing designs and what's really going on here? A link to an understandable article would do just as well.



    Thanks in advance.
  • tyler82tyler82 Posts: 506member
    Nokia lost its relevance in 2001.
  • suddenly newtonsuddenly newton Posts: 13,033member
    Quote:

    Nokia did say that it's objections to Apple's proposal "have never been related to intellectual property."Instead, the company takes issue with Apple's nano-SIM design because it believes the specification does not meet ETSI's technical requirements.



    Riiight. That's why they're not going to license their patents.
  • macky the mackymacky the macky Posts: 4,615member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dfergenson View Post


    Is anyone reading this sufficiently "in-the-know" to post a reasonable primer on these nano-SIMS, the standardization process, the competing designs and what's really going on here? A link to an understandable article would do just as well.



    Thanks in advance.



    Nokia just screwed Apple and it didn't hurt a bit.
  • tylerk36tylerk36 Posts: 1,037member
    So let's see. Apple submits their proposal royalty free. Other companies submit their proposals as well, royalty free and Nokia targets Apple only? Really what does Nokia see that is really a threat? This seems to be a means to try and discredit Apple's offer in order to get another design approved. Pretty lame strategy if you ask me. Just makes me not want to buy anything Nokia. Even if I wasn't buying an iPhone.
  • dickprinterdickprinter Posts: 1,060member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    Nokia fired off the latest salvo with a state threat not to participate if Apple wins .....






    So there.
  • knightlieknightlie Posts: 282member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post


    So there.



    Nokia were later quoted as saying they were going to hold their breath until someone told Apple to leave them alone.
  • 2 cents2 cents Posts: 307member
    Nokia,



    Don't be lame.



    Sincerely,

    The World
  • tribalogicaltribalogical Posts: 1,155member
    That seems rather like extortion, doesn't it? It's a lot like the kid with the ball in the playground who says, "we play the game I want to play, or I take my ball and go home."



    Another fine example for the "anti IP" crowd to point to as an illustration of how IP patents stymie progress and innovation. In this case, they might be right.
  • lightknightlightknight Posts: 2,253member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 2 cents View Post


    Nokia,



    Don't be lame.



    Sincerely,

    The World



    I've been working with iBooks Author for a while. Apple screwed the Web by enforcing a thing that is an eBook, but not quite. Remember Facetime: "we will open it soon"?



    Apple recently has shown a nasty tendency to play the Microsoft game of following and participating in standards and then knife the standards body in the back with its corporate salespower.



    So maybe the "2cent world" agrees with you, but certainly not "The World".
  • marsattackmarsattack Posts: 23member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by knightlie View Post


    Nokia were later quoted as saying they were going to hold their breath until someone told Apple to leave them alone.



  • asciiascii Posts: 5,363member
    It reminds me of people arguing over Blu Ray vs HD DVD when digital downloads are going to take over soon anyway. Just get rid of simcards and use a username/password instead.
  • lightknightlightknight Posts: 2,253member
    [QUOTE=tribalogical;2083568]That seems rather like extortion, doesn't it? It's a lot like the kid with the ball in the playground who says, "we play the game I want to play, or I take my ball and go home."



    Another fine example for the "anti IP" crowd to point to as an illustration of how IP patents stymie progress and innovation. In this case, they might be right.[/QUOTE



    1- If you don't want to play a game with your ball, why should you? If it was the other way around, you'd be clamoring that Apple has a right to take its ball home. Be honest



    2- "In this case, they might be right". In ANY case, they are right imho. It just happens to be that for once, it falls on Apple's nose.
  • ksecksec Posts: 1,122member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lightknight View Post


    I've been working with iBooks Author for a while. Apple screwed the Web by enforcing a thing that is an eBook, but not quite. Remember Facetime: "we will open it soon"?



    Apple recently has shown a nasty tendency to play the Microsoft game of following and participating in standards and then knife the standards body in the back with its corporate salespower.



    So maybe the "2cent world" agrees with you, but certainly not "The World".



    There are areas beyond Apple's control to open up Facebook. So no.



    And Ebook? What's wrong with iBook. Not like they force out ALL other ebook apps.



    P.S - Nano Sim wasn't even designed by Apple at all. Apple take the design from x company and add an Adopters, some small tweaks and changes.
  • cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,053member
    I am not entirely sure what is going on, but here is what it seems like from the scant information and doing a lot of reading between the lines.



    Nokia hold a shed load of patents essential for any SIM. They quite rightly want to garner income from those patents included in any new SIM design that incorporates them.



    Apple doesn't want Nokia to have those royalties, so we have this piece of nonsense:



    Quote:

    Earlier this week, it was revealed that Apple had pledged to offer royalty-free licensing of its nano-SIM design if the proposal was accepted and all other patent holders agreed to the same terms.



    So Apple's proposal would see Nokia denied royalties, on the one hand or on the other, Nokia would get it's royalties but so would Apple, meaning Apple would get to use the new SIM design essentially for free, because what it had to pay Nokia, Nokia and others would also have to pay Apple.



    It is a brilliant con on Apples part. If Nokia is to be believed they have no real IP to offer, but if their design proposal is accepted, they either don't have to pay Nokia for their IP or they themselves get paid for stuff all.



    A brilliant ruse if it pays off.
  • philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,286member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    "We believe that Apple is mis-using the standardization process, seeking to impose its own proprietary solution on the industry and using ETSI merely to rubber stamp its proposal, rather than following established principles and practices.



    That executive Henry Tirri isn't the brightest of the bunch. He should understand Apple doesn't follow 'established principles and practices' but rather innovate, make things smaller, thinner, easier to use etcetera. Will Nokia go down as the 'European RiM'?
  • adamcadamc Posts: 481member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lightknight View Post


    I've been working with iBooks Author for a while. Apple screwed the Web by enforcing a thing that is an eBook, but not quite. Remember Facetime: "we will open it soon"?



    Apple recently has shown a nasty tendency to play the Microsoft game of following and participating in standards and then knife the standards body in the back with its corporate salespower.



    So maybe the "2cent world" agrees with you, but certainly not "The World".



    You talking about webkit?



    So it is ok for the rest to screw Apple per se?



    Yes take the ball and go home who cares.
  • adamcadamc Posts: 481member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post


    I am not entirely sure what is going on, but here is what it seems like from the scant information and doing a lot of reading between the lines.



    Nokia hold a shed load of patents essential for any SIM. They quite rightly want to garner income from those patents included in any new SIM design that incorporates them.



    Apple doesn't want Nokia to have those royalties, so we have this piece of nonsense:







    So Apple's proposal would see Nokia denied royalties, on the one hand or on the other, Nokia would get it's royalties but so would Apple, meaning Apple would get to use the new SIM design essentially for free, because what it had to pay Nokia, Nokia and others would also have to pay Apple.



    It is a brilliant con on Apples part. If Nokia is to be believed they have no real IP to offer, but if their design proposal is accepted, they either don't have to pay Nokia for their IP or they themselves get paid for stuff all.



    A brilliant ruse if it pays off.



    You kind of left me in the dark.



    If Apple offering is royalty free so who did Apple get its dues from.



    If Apple design is accepted I believe others have to pay for Nokia patents but Nokia like the spoilt kid decided not to play because it wants it's dues from royalties.



    So who is with the ruse.
  • iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,396member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    .. Nokia fired off the latest salvo with a state threat not to participate if Apple wins the competition...



    So, Nokia speaks for Finland?



    Taking my bat, ball and wickets (for those who know what those are) and am going home.
  • cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,053member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AdamC View Post


    You kind of left me in the dark.



    If Apple offering is royalty free so who did Apple get its dues from.



    If Apple design is accepted I believe others have to pay for Nokia patents but Nokia like the spoilt kid decided not to play because it wants it's dues from royalties.



    So who is with the ruse.



    Apple is only eschewing royalties IF everyone else with relevant IP agrees to do the same.



    Please explain why wanting royalties for your IP is acting like a spoiled kid?
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