Google, Facebook working to undermine Do Not Track privacy protections

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  • genovellegenovelle Posts: 650member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    And how is that exactly?



    I do not want to be tracked online. Maybe you do, but I don't. I use my Safari browser everyday. I have cookies turned off but Google figured out how to override that and track me anyway. I had a friend mention a mental disorder three weeks ago so I Googled it. The next day I notice I started getting emails about going to school to treat mental disorders. It was unsettling. The clearly know who we are and what we are doing online because they know I was looking in to schools so it put two and two together and got 3.



    They are collecting and selling us with out our permission. The other problem is we don't know what else is being collected. When they are hacked again what personal info will be accessed? Credit Cards, social?
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 39,975member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    I don't know. I'm not the one placing the ads. But, from my experience, my guess is that they are trying to learn more about you in order to better target ads to you.



    Exactly. And we don't want that. Nor should anyone have to have that if they don't desire it. You can't possibly argue against this. It's a matter of opinion. "Don't use it" is neither an excuse nor an argument nor any sort of way to bend people from our point to yours.



    I just cleaned through my cookies and set it to "BLOCK ALL". 36 websites. I reloaded this page. 40 websites. google-analytics.com, bkrtx.com, cdnlayer.com, advertising.com.



    Huh.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post


    And how much of that "value" is due to their tracking?



    No idea. I'm getting so much value it doesn't matter to me.
  • cpsrocpsro Posts: 2,043member
    btw: Any thought that innovation would be stymied by prohibiting tracking is absolute fallacy.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Exactly. And we don't want that. Nor should anyone have to have that if they don't desire it. You can't possibly argue against this. It's a matter of opinion. "Don't use it" is neither an excuse nor an argument nor any sort of way to bend people from our point to yours.



    It is an action you can take.



    You want to leverage all of the free resources that are being provided but want to give nothing in return. That's fine, but then you ought to do the work. Block cookies. Setup your browser to not send anything out. It can be done.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Exactly. And we don't want that. Nor should anyone have to have that if they don't desire it. You can't possibly argue against this. It's a matter of opinion. "Don't use it" is neither an excuse nor an argument nor any sort of way to bend people from our point to yours.



    I just cleaned through my cookies and set it to "block from advertisers and third parties". 36 websites. I reloaded this page. 40 websites. google-analytics.com, bkrtx.com, cdnlayer.com, advertising.com.



    Huh.



    Have you tried blocking ALL?
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 39,975member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    Have you tried blocking ALL?



    Yes, sorry, that's actually what I meant. I'll edit my post.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    You want to leverage all of the free resources that are being provided but want to give nothing in return.



    I'm never going to give anything in return anyway! I'll never click on anyone's idiotic ads! Ever! For any reason! At any time! Regardless of if they're "targeted" toward me!



    You're advocating for the digital equivalent of stores being able to watch me go to a clothing store, make a comment about how I like grapefruit juice (OR SAY NOTHING AT ALL), and then be sent spam snail-mail TO MY HOME from a grocery store, advertising grapefruit juice.



    Come ON.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Yes, sorry, that's actually what I meant. I'll edit my post.



    Use a different browser. Sounds like Safari is not respecting your wishes.
  • steven n.steven n. Posts: 822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    OK. Is Google's way of making money evil? If so, why?



    Simple. Google devalues other people's IP. Google books: Copy the world's books and post 1/6 of a book on line calling it fair use. Don't get permission from the copyright holder but do link it into your ad engine to shift profit from the creator to Google.



    Google is heading us down a path where quality content is devalued to such a point that he creators will simply stop creating or sharing their work.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    You're advocating for the digital equivalent of stores being able to watch me go to a clothing store, make a comment about how I like grapefruit juice (OR SAY NOTHING AT ALL), and then be sent spam snail-mail TO MY HOME from a grocery store, advertising grapefruit juice.



    Come ON.



    I suppose those are rough analogies. And so what? Throw the mail out. I get tons of junk mail no matter what I do. I just throw it out. I have spam filters on my email. Don't see about 99% of it.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Steven N. View Post


    Simple. Google devalues other people's IP. Google books: Copy the world's books and post 1/6 of a book on line calling it fair use. Don't get permission from the copyright holder but do link it into your ad engine to shift profit from the creator to Google.



    Google is heading us down a path where quality content is devalued to such a point that he creators will simply stop creating or sharing their work.



    Maybe. There's no certainty of that though.
  • macrrmacrr Posts: 488member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    No idea. I'm getting so much value it doesn't matter to me.





    Wow- you are a cheap date. google and their shareholders love good little consumers like you that fall in line like you owe them something for their enormous return on manipulating you.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacRR View Post


    Wow- you are a cheap date. google and their shareholders love good little consumers like you that fall in line like you owe them something for their enormous return on manipulating you.



    Who said they are manipulating me?



    I get to search for lots of information instantly. It's wonderful. Plus there are tons of free sites that provide me content for free all over the place. Worse case is I might see some ads (most of which I ignore...most are actually blocked by my ad blocker).
  • steven n.steven n. Posts: 822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    Maybe. There's no certainty of that though.



    There is a high probability. I have aquaintances that have lost substantial income (as in thoer mortgage) as a result of Google books deciding to give away thier work to the world without thier permission. They wrote (as in past tense) amazingly clear and concise programming recipe books. They were small micro published books that sell for about $70. They would take a yea or so to write on the weekends and evenings.



    Bummer they don't do them any more. Watching revenue drop from 1200/month to almost 0 made them madder than heck. Thier stories woke me up to Google's "do no Evil" as being a tag line hoping for idiots to believe in.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Steven N. View Post


    There is a high probability. I have aquaintances that have lost substantial income (as in thoer mortgage) as a result of Google books deciding to give away thier work to the world without thier permission. They wrote (as in past tense) amazingly clear and concise programming recipe books. They were small micro published books that sell for about $70. They would take a yea or so to write on the weekends and evenings.



    Bummer they don't do them any more. Watching revenue drop from 1200/month to almost 0 made them madder than heck. Thier stories woke me up to Google's "do no Evil" as being a tag line hoping for idiots to believe in.



    Well perhaps authors will need to find different ways to provide their knowledge.
  • jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    There's an even simpler option (two actually):



    1. Never go to or user their site(s).



    2. Turn off cookies on your browser(s)...completely or just for Google and FB.



    No laws. No special tokens. Nothing. And...you can start right this minute!



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    Then don't use their websites. Turn off cookies. Stop using your browser.



    You have the freedom to do all of that. Right now.



    If only it worked as you claim.



    Google has found ways to bypass browser security. Furthermore, you can't avoid sites that have Google ads on them unless you turn your computer off.



    Then, of course, there's the matter of sites that don't work with cookie tracking off. For example, there are a couple of job search sites that require you to turn cookies on.



    The user should have the right to block Google entirely.
  • correctionscorrections Posts: 1,114member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    Then don't use their websites. Turn off cookies. Stop using your browser.



    You have the freedom to do all of that. Right now.



    So one side of your mouth is arguing that Google doesn't own a monopoly on how web sites are monetized, and the other is recommending users who want to opt out just stop using the web.



    This sort of contradictory nonsense is something I recall spewing from a certain other AI troll user.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    If only it worked as you claim.



    Google has found ways to bypass browser security. Furthermore, you can't avoid sites that have Google ads on them unless you turn your computer off.



    Then, of course, there's the matter of sites that don't work with cookie tracking off. For example, there are a couple of job search sites that require you to turn cookies on.



    The user should have the right to block Google entirely.



    You're late. We've been through all of that.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Corrections View Post


    So one side of your mouth is arguing that Google doesn't own a monopoly on how web sites are monetized, and the other is recommending users who want to opt out just stop using the web.



    This sort of contradictory nonsense is something I recall spewing from a certain other AI troll user.



    Ahhh...name calling. You must be losing.
  • correctionscorrections Posts: 1,114member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    Who said they are manipulating me?



    I get to search for lots of information instantly. It's wonderful. Plus there are tons of free sites that provide me content for free all over the place. Worse case is I might see some ads (most of which I ignore...most are actually blocked by my ad blocker).



    The definition of a freetard, in a nutshell.
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