Mac Pro Dead or Alive

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
«13

Comments

  • MarvinMarvin Posts: 13,622member, moderator
    So far, they aren't using the Xeon E5 series yet. They use the same X5670 in the Mac Pro. No doubt this April 5th event is when they want to intro their E5 update but it still just runs Windows 7. The Mac Pro is more that just hardware - it's the fastest way to run the best OS.
  • tony3dtony3d Posts: 47member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    So far, they aren't using the Xeon E5 series yet. They use the same X5670 in the Mac Pro. No doubt this April 5th event is when they want to intro their E5 update but it still just runs Windows 7. The Mac Pro is more that just hardware - it's the fastest way to run the best OS.



    What April 5th event?
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 39,900member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tony3d View Post


    What April 5th event?



    The one on the page you linked.



    These guys are jokers, really. It's Psystar without the shyster. People buy Mac Pros to run OS X in those environments. Relearning an OS and its software doesn't become "worth it" to them for a very long amount of time.
  • wizard69wizard69 Posts: 11,477member
    I really don't get what your problem is here. Sandy Bridge E has been out barely three weeks, in that time only a handful of computers have debuted with that processor and most of them from shady fly by night suppliers. Just chill a bit until there is a reasonable number of professional machines Available to look at.



    It really shocks me that people respond to such advertising. Think about it they are exploiting you based on rumors built on very thin evidence. The only thing we know for sure is that it has been sometime since the Mac Pro revved. Plus we know that Intel screwed up royally with Sandy Bridge E which probable explains the very slow roll out of real workstations built around this processor. Beyond that everything else is speculation.



    Now I'd like to think an informed opinion is that the current Mac Pro is dead. That can not and should not be interpreted as saying that Apple is leaving the Pro Market. I'm not sure why this is so difficult for people to grasp. Nor can I understand why people can't grasp that technology has changed dramatically since the need for big box towers was a reality. It is a different world and more importantly many new technologies will become available in the next couple of years to dramatically change what we see as Pro computing hardware.



    Intel is looking at building high performance processors with Infinband built in. They are also working with memory manufactures to build 3D high performance memory architectures. AMD and NVidia are starting to make good on high performance GPU computing. All of this stuff and more will end up in a much smaller box than the current Mac Pro. Trust that whatever Apple is doing is for a machine that can adapt to these technologies in the future.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tony3d View Post


    Check this out.

    http://image.promax.com/webinar/prom...campaign2.html



  • mike fixmike fix Posts: 212member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    I really don't get what your problem is here. Sandy Bridge E has been out barely three weeks, in that time only a handful of computers have debuted with that processor and most of them from shady fly by night suppliers.



    I wouldn't call this a fly by night supplier...



    http://www.boxxtech.com/products/3DB...sp?prodid=8920
  • lemon bon bon.lemon bon bon. Posts: 2,078member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    I really don't get what your problem is here. Sandy Bridge E has been out barely three weeks, in that time only a handful of computers have debuted with that processor and most of them from shady fly by night suppliers. Just chill a bit until there is a reasonable number of professional machines Available to look at.



    It really shocks me that people respond to such advertising. Think about it they are exploiting you based on rumors built on very thin evidence. The only thing we know for sure is that it has been sometime since the Mac Pro revved. Plus we know that Intel screwed up royally with Sandy Bridge E which probable explains the very slow roll out of real workstations built around this processor. Beyond that everything else is speculation.



    Now I'd like to think an informed opinion is that the current Mac Pro is dead. That can not and should not be interpreted as saying that Apple is leaving the Pro Market. I'm not sure why this is so difficult for people to grasp. Nor can I understand why people can't grasp that technology has changed dramatically since the need for big box towers was a reality. It is a different world and more importantly many new technologies will become available in the next couple of years to dramatically change what we see as Pro computing hardware.



    Intel is looking at building high performance processors with Infinband built in. They are also working with memory manufactures to build 3D high performance memory architectures. AMD and NVidia are starting to make good on high performance GPU computing. All of this stuff and more will end up in a much smaller box than the current Mac Pro. Trust that whatever Apple is doing is for a machine that can adapt to these technologies in the future.



    What he said. Clues in those tea leaves...



    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • mr. memr. me Posts: 3,214member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mike Fix View Post


    I wouldn't call this a fly by night supplier...



    http://www.boxxtech.com/products/3DB...sp?prodid=8920



    Based on the website that you linked to, BOXX is a boutique OEM. Call us back when Dell, HP, and Lenovo sell boxes with these processors.
  • hmmhmm Posts: 3,355member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mike Fix View Post


    I wouldn't call this a fly by night supplier...



    http://www.boxxtech.com/products/3DB...sp?prodid=8920



    They've been around quite a long time. They're not really fly by night at all.
  • brian greenbrian green Posts: 618member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    I really don't get what your problem is here. Sandy Bridge E has been out barely three weeks, in that time only a handful of computers have debuted with that processor and most of them from shady fly by night suppliers. Just chill a bit until there is a reasonable number of professional machines Available to look at.



    It really shocks me that people respond to such advertising. Think about it they are exploiting you based on rumors built on very thin evidence. The only thing we know for sure is that it has been sometime since the Mac Pro revved. Plus we know that Intel screwed up royally with Sandy Bridge E which probable explains the very slow roll out of real workstations built around this processor. Beyond that everything else is speculation.



    Now I'd like to think an informed opinion is that the current Mac Pro is dead. That can not and should not be interpreted as saying that Apple is leaving the Pro Market. I'm not sure why this is so difficult for people to grasp. Nor can I understand why people can't grasp that technology has changed dramatically since the need for big box towers was a reality. It is a different world and more importantly many new technologies will become available in the next couple of years to dramatically change what we see as Pro computing hardware.



    Intel is looking at building high performance processors with Infinband built in. They are also working with memory manufactures to build 3D high performance memory architectures. AMD and NVidia are starting to make good on high performance GPU computing. All of this stuff and more will end up in a much smaller box than the current Mac Pro. Trust that whatever Apple is doing is for a machine that can adapt to these technologies in the future.



    I've been holding onto my MacPro2,1 for longer than I'd like to have simply because I'm waiting for a smaller form factor for a Pro mac. I have my credit card patiently waiting in my wallet for the day one is released. Hopefully, my 30" Cinema Display will be supported. I just can't bring myself to use an underpowered Mac Mini.
  • loganhunterloganhunter Posts: 85member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Brian Green View Post


    I've been holding onto my MacPro2,1 for longer than I'd like to have simply because I'm waiting for a smaller form factor for a Pro mac. I have my credit card patiently waiting in my wallet for the day one is released. Hopefully, my 30" Cinema Display will be supported. I just can't bring myself to use an underpowered Mac Mini.



    What if they kill headless desktops altogether except the mini?
  • macroninmacronin Posts: 1,123member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    Intel is looking at building high performance processors with Infinband built in. They are also working with memory manufactures to build 3D high performance memory architectures. AMD and NVidia are starting to make good on high performance GPU computing. All of this stuff and more will end up in a much smaller box than the current Mac Pro. Trust that whatever Apple is doing is for a machine that can adapt to these technologies in the future.



    There is still that 'last hurrah' Cube (v3.0?? NeXT Cube, Mac Cube, the new hawtness?) with the Thunderbolt interconnects & half-height/same footprint Thunderbolt RAID chassis?



    Mac mini Pro (Cube v4.0?) in the future??
  • loganhunterloganhunter Posts: 85member
    As long as they let me replace the graphics card and add RAM, I'm ok with that.
  • macroninmacronin Posts: 1,123member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LoganHunter View Post


    As long as they let me replace the graphics card and add RAM, I'm ok with that.



    Exactly why I think there could be a Mac mini Pro someday?



    Replace RAM?? Check?



    Replace GPUs?? Check, either swap out the MXM card or add an external TB-connected unit?



    I would expect fatter/faster versions of TB, with at least 4 available, along with other I/O choices?



    Interconnects between CPUs and self-aware clustering software (Galaxy, duh? the rEAL reason behind the legal battles with Samsung?) make adding raw horsepower as easy as plugging in another Mac mini Pro?



    I may be dreaming, but I gotta hope/believe that Apple has something more to offer Pro users than a pimped out iMac, no matter what the specs. The idea of modular components being linked together to make something greater than the parts sounds good to me?!
  • loganhunterloganhunter Posts: 85member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacRonin View Post


    Exactly why I think there could be a Mac mini Pro someday?



    Replace RAM?? Check?



    Replace GPUs?? Check, either swap out the MXM card or add an external TB-connected unit?



    I would expect fatter/faster versions of TB, with at least 4 available, along with other I/O choices?



    Interconnects between CPUs and self-aware clustering software (Galaxy, duh? the rEAL reason behind the legal battles with Samsung?) make adding raw horsepower as easy as plugging in another Mac mini Pro?



    I may be dreaming, but I gotta hope/believe that Apple has something more to offer Pro users than a pimped out iMac, no matter what the specs. The idea of modular components being linked together to make something greater than the parts sounds good to me?!



    If I'm not wrong, Thunderbolt bandwidth is the same as PCIe x4 and not x16 needed for a craphics card so, no, that's not a good option. What I'm looking for is a Mac where I can upgrade a good graphics card. I don't get all that hype about Thunderbolt. It may be good for storage and other type of peripherals but not for a powerful GPU.
  • hmmhmm Posts: 3,355member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacRonin View Post




    I may be dreaming, but I gotta hope/believe that Apple has something more to offer Pro users than a pimped out iMac, no matter what the specs. The idea of modular components being linked together to make something greater than the parts sounds good to me?!



    Somehow I don't see Apple going after such a market. Further we wouldn't have a current method of making it behave as a single workstation.
  • d-ranged-range Posts: 396member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    Now I'd like to think an informed opinion is that the current Mac Pro is dead. That can not and should not be interpreted as saying that Apple is leaving the Pro Market. I'm not sure why this is so difficult for people to grasp. Nor can I understand why people can't grasp that technology has changed dramatically since the need for big box towers was a reality. It is a different world and more importantly many new technologies will become available in the next couple of years to dramatically change what we see as Pro computing hardware.



    Intel is looking at building high performance processors with Infinband built in. They are also working with memory manufactures to build 3D high performance memory architectures. AMD and NVidia are starting to make good on high performance GPU computing. All of this stuff and more will end up in a much smaller box than the current Mac Pro. Trust that whatever Apple is doing is for a machine that can adapt to these technologies in the future.



    Very interesting, can't disagree with any of that.



    Right now with extremely fast interconnects such as Thunderbolt you should already be able to build a pretty powerful compute cluster from just a stack of Mac Mini's. It's not nearly as convenient or flexible enough to replace a badass rig with lots of CPU, RAM, IO and graphics performance, at least not yet, but who knows how the current technologies evolve.



    Imagine fiber optic Thunderbolt but almost as fast as the local memory bus of a current Mac Pro, fully transparent distributed GPUs, and software support that allows you to simply hook up more small boxes such as Mac Mini's or even any regular Mac to increase computing power, and I can see something like this replacing big boxes completely some day. Small and flexible computers already replaced large, rigid ones for home computing, so why not for professional ones.



    I remember poster Dick Applebaum suggesting something along the same line of thinking about a year ago, and I'm starting to see it actually coming together now.
  • octaineoctaine Posts: 12member
    This may seem a little off topic but for some light relief while we all dangle on the end of a string waiting to see if Apple are going to give the pro a second chance, can it or reinvent it, have a look at this:



    http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_AMIGAmini.aspx



    enjoy
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 39,900member
    Quote:



    Nice old Mac Mini. Oh, wait.





















  • hmmhmm Posts: 3,355member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Octaine View Post


    This may seem a little off topic but for some light relief while we all dangle on the end of a string waiting to see if Apple are going to give the pro a second chance, can it or reinvent it, have a look at this:



    http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_AMIGAmini.aspx



    enjoy



    This would be a more appropriate link. Looking at your link, it really doesn't add much in the way of capability beyond what is already present in the imac. While I feel there are needed improvements to the imac, that design doesn't provide a lot of extra differentiation unless the differentiating factor is headless machine. I wouldn't have minded a scaled up mini, but we didn't get one. With the mac pro design, I'm not sure how small you're going to see that thing get. It would require a drastically different design trending away from that processor tray setup it has currently. Like the article mentions, you'd still need large fans to maintain a quiet machine. I wouldn't expect to go smaller than this and I have no idea if it's noisy. They made it to work with a setup of many workstations crammed into a rackmount enclosure. It's a valid comparison, but it's also quite expensive. I'm not saying it won't be crunched down, but if you're expecting comparable gpus and a top end involving 95-130W cpus, without generating audible noise, it's going to be difficult. Assuming it remains their high end line, there aren't many alternative cpus.



    The typical i7 idea isn't going to happen. Your only really viable option would be the one shared with the top imac, and its price point is roughly the same as the current mac pro cpu. All it comes down to is a relatively weak entry level option. In some cases the other oems are cheaper. It varies depending on configuration. Outside of Apple a 3 year warranty is the norm on workstation hardware, so that does count slightly against Apple.



    Overall while they could probably do something with this market, I think they're just going to keep their updates as simple as possible, and the uninformed will continue to debate how many cores the imac would require to be appropriate when nothing about its design makes it conducive as a successor.
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