Apple][ easily crosses that line of being too pro-Apple. It's not that his pro-Apple it's that never seems to be objective about his reasoning. But that's beside the point, we do see a lot more anti-Apple posters who sign up just to incite the forum members. That's trolling.
How much of that side would we see, though, if there weren't so many anti-Apple trolls.
The too pro Apple irrational comments don't bother me so much but there are aspects of his posts that are deeply troubling... imho.
Here is my take on the whole Android vs Apple vs Microsoft. Based on past history, when there are too many companies going after the same market and they use the same Operating System that eventually there becomes too many players and eventually the better run companies stand out and the others either go out of business or get bought up. This has happened in the Windows world until Dell and HP were the only two american computer makers stand out and now we have Microsoft clones coming out of Japan, China, and Korea that are around (to whatever extent). Now, we have Android repeating Microsoft's business model, but they don't sell their operating system and quite frankly, the direction is not very clear and most of their OEM customers also sell Microsoft products that compete. Well, I think that eventually these companies are either going to get bought up, go out of business or they are going to have to choose which OS they are going to support because the BIGGEST problem many of these companies do is to have too many products on their product list and that just creates a logistics nightmare and a support nightmare and these companies are now looking at Apple as guidance to how to run a company. In addition, NONE of these companies really control as much of their respective ecosystems as much as Apple, and that is a HUGE problem these companies have in order to have a viable solution. Samsung doesn't develop usable applications, they have to rely on third party developers. HP is buying software companies for the top end market, but not the desktop/tablet market. Dell is doing the same thing. The other companies like Acer, Lenovo, ASUS, etc., they just put out hardware. The Windows and Android markets are really just competing over price on hardware, which eventually creates low margins which will take them out of contention. Apple just has to continue making the products people want and reducing or eliminating various technical problems that crop up. None of the companies that compete with Apple have total control over their respective ecosystem and without that total control, they won't be in any better position to compete since they don't have as much control over the OS, development software, hardware design, support, content (apps, video, music, books, etc.) without that full ecosystem, they can't provide a complete solution. Apple knows that their customers would rather pay a little more for an easier to use, higher quality product rather than a ME TOO product that doesn't have the same level of customer service. One can have the best product in the world, but if they can't support very well, people will go elsewhere. I think Android has a MAJOR problem in the support area. Too fragmented, no real control by any of the vendors putting Android products on the market and eventually it will turn off customers. Where will the typical Android customer go, when they aren't satisfied? Apple or Microsoft? I personally think Apple since they have a better ecosystem than Microsoft since Microsoft has already proven with Windows 7 that they aren't making any dent in the Smartphone, Tablet, portable Media player markets and since Apple has been around for a while these top corporations need a company with a clear direction. As of now, there are almost 92% of the Fortune 500 that are either starting to purchase Apple products to replace WIndows, Android or some other brand that is failing, or is in serious evaluation mode.
I think it would be fairly difficult to be too pro Apple on an Apple forum. The only people that would get really upset are the people who, for the most part, shouldn't be here in the first place.
I think the Android fans just want attention, since they don't have anything exciting to look forward to. They have to follow Apple to see what things Android is going to copy. If I were AppleInsider, I wouldn't post articles unless it was Apple related and wouldn't even post Android related articles.
How much of that side would we see, though, if there weren't so many anti-Apple trolls.
The pro Apple comments don't bother me so much but there are aspects of his posts that are deeply troubling... imho.
I pretty much agree with you too Island Hermit, except that I don't think it's impossible to be too pro-Apple on a pro-Apple site.
I also agree that there's a fair number of members attracted to AI for no other reason than to ridicule Apple owners when they see an opening, no efforts made to make a reasoned respectful post. IMHO AI deserves much of the blame for encouraging those comments, but I've discussed that in another thread previously so no need to throw this one off-topic any more than it already has.
I think the Android fans just want attention, since they don't have anything exciting to look forward to. They have to follow Apple to see what things Android is going to copy. If I were AppleInsider, I wouldn't post articles unless it was Apple related and wouldn't even post Android related articles.
The too pro Apple irrational comments don't bother me so much but there are aspects of his posts that are deeply troubling... imho.
They bother me. I'm bothered by any comment that puts the irrational before the rational, which include mine. I try to be consciousness of it but it does happen.
Am I as bothered, absolutely not, but that's because they aren't posts that are designed to derail the thread, they are just overzealous posters. In that same vain in a thread about a competing product it's perfectly reasonable if one defends the merits of other products because they think they are good. That should not mean people should call them a troll for defending a product in a thread that mentions them but it also shouldn't mean they should call others fanboys for not liking it.
You can have anecdotal stories and opinions about the pros and cons of all products while still remaining relatively objective*. I've stated that I think WinPh is great, and have been called a MS fanboy or something to that effect on this very forum, but I've also said that it's not great enough to make me switch OSes and ecosystems.
The other pro-Apple comments that bother me, and I think we're all guilty of, is the rumour mill spiraling out of control until we expect "magical" things from a technology company. Every week it's a dozen new rumours that are usually more fantastical than the last but rarely do they make sense. The ones that do make sense get comments such as "Duh!" and "In other news the sun will setting in the West." It's just not fun to dream logically, but that is what we should be doing if we are to accurate determine what will most likely transpire in the future.
* Objective isn't the most accurate term. Rational would probably be better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
Here is my take on the whole Android vs Apple vs Microsoft. Based on past history, when there are too many companies going after the same market and they use the same Operating System that eventually there becomes too many players and eventually the better run companies stand out and the others either go out of business or get bought up. This has happened in the Windows world until Dell and HP were the only two american computer makers stand out and now we have Microsoft clones coming out of Japan, China, and Korea that are around (to whatever extent). Now, we have Android repeating Microsoft's business model, but they don't sell their operating system and quite frankly, the direction is not very clear and most of their OEM customers also sell Microsoft products that compete. Well, I think that eventually these companies are either going to get bought up, go out of business or they are going to have to choose which OS they are going to support because the BIGGEST problem many of these companies do is to have too many products on their product list and that just creates a logistics nightmare and a support nightmare and these companies are now looking at Apple as guidance to how to run a company. In addition, NONE of these companies really control as much of their respective ecosystems as much as Apple, and that is a HUGE problem these companies have in order to have a viable solution. Samsung doesn't develop usable applications, they have to rely on third party developers. HP is buying software companies for the top end market, but not the desktop/tablet market. Dell is doing the same thing. The other companies like Acer, Lenovo, ASUS, etc., they just put out hardware. The Windows and Android markets are really just competing over price on hardware, which eventually creates low margins which will take them out of contention. Apple just has to continue making the products people want and reducing or eliminating various technical problems that crop up. None of the companies that compete with Apple have total control over their respective ecosystem and without that total control, they won't be in any better position to compete since they don't have as much control over the OS, development software, hardware design, support, content (apps, video, music, books, etc.) without that full ecosystem, they can't provide a complete solution. Apple knows that their customers would rather pay a little more for an easier to use, higher quality product rather than a ME TOO product that doesn't have the same level of customer service. One can have the best product in the world, but if they can't support very well, people will go elsewhere. I think Android has a MAJOR problem in the support area. Too fragmented, no real control by any of the vendors putting Android products on the market and eventually it will turn off customers. Where will the typical Android customer go, when they aren't satisfied? Apple or Microsoft? I personally think Apple since they have a better ecosystem than Microsoft since Microsoft has already proven with Windows 7 that they aren't making any dent in the Smartphone, Tablet, portable Media player markets and since Apple has been around for a while these top corporations need a company with a clear direction. As of now, there are almost 92% of the Fortune 500 that are either starting to purchase Apple products to replace WIndows, Android or some other brand that is failing, or is in serious evaluation mode.
You might as well have written that in machine code because that's not human readable.
...because they aren't posts that are designed to derail the thread, they are just overzealous posters.
... and that is why those type of posts don't bother me so much. Anyone being over zealous and/or irrational in a pro Apple way doesn't create a firestorm in the way that throwing an Android grenade into a thread does. An Android grenade, imo, does not include a well reasoned argument from an Apple fan who chose an Android product this time around... it does include, though, someone who goes out of their way to make it clear that Apple sucks at every level.
... and that is why those type of posts don't bother me so much. Anyone being over zealous and/or irrational in a pro Apple way doesn't create a firestorm in the way that throwing an Android grenade into a thread. An Android grenade, imo, does not include a well reasoned argument from an Apple chose an Android product this time around... it does include, though, someone who goes out of their way to make it clear that Apple sucks at every level.
I agree with that if you mean "Anyone being over zealous and/or irrational in a pro Apple way doesn't create a firestorm in the way that throwing an Android grenade into a thread [in an Apple-centric forum, and by that same token an over-zealous pro-Android user in an Android-centric forum doesn't create a firestorm the way someone would by going to an Android forum and throwing an Apple grenade.]
I think that's what you mean but I want to be crystal clear you are referring to the foundation of the contrarian v. advocator issue, not an Apple v. Android issue. Your comment is focused on AI so it can read as being the latter and not the former.
I agree with that if you mean "Anyone being over zealous and/or irrational in a pro Apple way doesn't create a firestorm in the way that throwing an Android grenade into a thread [in an Apple-centric forum, and by that same token an over-zealous pro-Android user in an Android-centric forum doesn't create a firestorm the way someone would by going to an Android forum and throwing an Apple grenade.]
I think that's what you mean but I want to be crystal clear you are referring to the foundation of the contrarian v. advocator issue, not an Apple v. Android issue. Your comment is focused on AI so it can read as being the latter and not the former.
contrarian v. advocator
I was trying to clarify by giving an example of my definition of an Android grenade.
(ie. I have a Samsung 23" monitor hooked to my iMac. It was cheaper than the Apple monitor and it does the intended job to my satisfaction.)
as opposed to:
(ie. I have a Samsung 23" monitor hooked to my Dell. It's way cheaper than any Apple monitor and besides, Apple monitors suck balls!)
You can have anecdotal stories and opinions about the pros and cons of all products while still remaining relatively objective*. I've stated that I think WinPh is great, and have been called a MS fanboy or something to that effect on this very forum, but I've also said that it's not great enough to make me switch OSes and ecosystems.
Oh my gosh and I thought you were this hardcore Apple guy that refused to own anything that didn't have a Apple on the back. Just kidding, I also really like Microsoft's new mobile OS. I think it's slowly becoming my favorite OS but it is still missing a few things to make it perfect. The first being decent apps, MS is in some desperate need of some quality apps. OTA, it took Apple forever to finally release this on their OS so I guess I can be patient but I really do not like updating the phone with Zune.
I don't want to write up a drawn out review of what I think of Mango so I'll some it up; it's extremely fast, simple but elegant, some of the best integration of social networking applications to date, superb e-mail client and a first rate browser. MS Mobile is vastly becoming a decent business phone, I think by the time version 8 is released I might give serious thought of migrating over that is if they can sort out their app shortage problem.
The first being decent apps, MS is in some desperate need of some quality apps. OTA, it took Apple forever to finally release this on their OS...
That's not true.
June 2007 — iPhone released.
October 2007 — Steve Jobs releases open letter to developers announcing iPhone OS SDK.
March 2007 — First iPhone OS SDK beta released and App Store announced.
July 2008 — iPhone OS 2.0 and App Store go live.
So it's been over 4 years since developers could start writing apps with Apple's SDK.
Quote:
I don't want to write up a drawn out review of what I think of Mango so I'll some it up; it's extremely fast, simple but elegant, some of the best integration of social networking applications to date, superb e-mail client and a first rate browser. MS Mobile is vastly becoming a decent business phone, I think by the time version 8 is released I might give serious thought of migrating over that is if they can sort out their app shortage problem.
It might be too late. It's more important to build well than to build quickly just to be first out of the gate but you also can't be too far behind and mostly follow in the leader's shoes. There has to be something that makes your product desirable to your customers.
With Android the customers are the carriers and HW vendors because they can add analytics, alter it and then lock it down as they see fit. Very few customers buy an Android-based device and say "I can't wait to install a custom ROM and then write drivers for the missing HW components."
MS has a good product in and of itself, but do they have a good enough product for the current and future market? It's not looking that way. It's looking like the Zune fiasco all over again. The Zune was a great product since version 2. It had refinements and features that made the iPod look antiquated but it was too late to make a difference and the focus had shifted to the smartphones. MS seems to be late with each attempt to enter the market.
October 2007 ? Steve Jobs releases open letter to developers announcing iPhone OS SDK.
March 2007 ? First iPhone OS SDK beta released and App Store announced.
July 2008 ? iPhone OS 2.0 and App Store go live.
So it's been over 4 years since developers could start writing apps with Apple's SDK.
It might be too late. It's more important to build well than to build quickly just to be first out of the gate but you also can't be too far behind and mostly follow in the leader's shoes. There has to be something that makes your product desirable to your customers.
With Android the customers are the carriers and HW vendors because they can add analytics, alter it and then lock it down as they see fit. Very few customers buy an Android-based device and say "I can't wait to install a custom ROM and then write drivers for the missing HW components."
MS has a good product in and of itself, but do they have a good enough product for the current and future market? It's not looking that way. It's looking like the Zune fiasco all over again. The Zune was a great product since version 2. It had refinements and features that made the iPod look antiquated but it was too late to make a difference and the focus had shifted to the smartphones. MS seems to be late with each attempt to enter the market.
OTA, over the air updates which was just introduced in 2011, it took Apple almost 5 years to come out with it, that's a pretty long time.
I sure hope Microsoft can do it, we need more successful competition not less. Just having two main platforms to choose from just sucks. RIM is pretty much dead so now more then ever we need a good corporate mobile phone and I really think MS is the way to go. Here's hoping they can pull off the impossible.
If he's not making an attempt at a cogent argument and instead is intentionally trying to roil the seas with personal attacks, insults or wild unsubstantiated claims then yeah I think he could be acting trollish.
^^ This is the point, nothing to do with being pro-Apple, it's about his posting manner.
OTA, over the air updates which was just introduced in 2011, it took Apple almost 5 years to come out with it, that's a pretty long time.
I sure hope Microsoft can do it, we need more successful competition not less. Just having two main platforms to choose from just sucks. RIM is pretty much dead so now more then ever we need a good corporate mobile phone and I really think MS is the way to go. Here's hoping they can pull off the impossible.
Mea culpa. Thought were you referring to the SDK and App Store.
Slightly over 4 years* is a long time in tech but consider what has to be done to make it safe and effective.
It's not just making sure the system can hold the image, but making sure that the update can't be hacked so it pushed a malware update to users. This would happen fast enough that it's unlikely Apple could resolve the issue before devices are compromised.
Another issue, and the one that I think Apple has taken for too long to get a handle on, is the size of the updates. You can't have 700MB updates being pushed to a device over an 802.11g network every time you have a tertiary (x.x.1) point update.
Are there benefits to Apple's previous method? Absolutely! It's more secure and has built in redundancy but it means it's slow and clunky in comparison. It's much like iDisk is to Dropbox. IOW, if you lose a connection to an iDisk download you lose the entire file and have to start all over, but with Dropbox you maintain the packages you've already receive, hidden from view until they can be put together.
There are still issues with Apple's OTA update service as of iOS 5.0.1. For instance, if you didn't have enough room on your device in your "user space" the IPSW couldn't load the files that it needed. Or maybe it could expand the files after it downloaded them. Either way, it was an issue that I'd think could be easily resolved by the system first getting the download (or expanded installer) size before it starts. If it's not enough it could then inform you of the issue. As of 5.0.1 it didn't offer any usable error message.
Finally, there is network congestion. I'm sure you haven't thought about this but when Apple issues an iOS update it goes to all their iOS devices at the same time. This means 3 years of iPhone releases, 3 years of iPad Touch releases and soon to be 3 years of iPad releases. Now consider how many of those iOS-based devices Apple has sold since 2009. With other mobile OSes you get 1) stepped OTA updates so that even if you have a device that is updatable you may not get it for more than a month if your device isn't chosen by the powers that be. I knew of no way to contact HTC of MS to get the update for a WinPh device last year when Mango arrived. And that's just one device model!
You can't simply say that since one company did x that Apple should have been able to do x, too, without considering all the factors. Even then you can't say that because Apple could have technically done x that it would have been smart to do x simply because it was technically possible. We've seen this year-after-year as some new Apple-killer comes to market with specs that are technically superior but poorly executed. Bottom line: Having something you check off on a spec sheet doesn't mean shit if it doesn't work.
* If you are going to round then round to the nearest year.
Personally I can't wait for google to release their own tablet. I have many friends how have ipads and they are wonderful tablets, but I just perfer andriod. Why all the hate? To each his own.
Comments
Apple][ easily crosses that line of being too pro-Apple. It's not that his pro-Apple it's that never seems to be objective about his reasoning. But that's beside the point, we do see a lot more anti-Apple posters who sign up just to incite the forum members. That's trolling.
How much of that side would we see, though, if there weren't so many anti-Apple trolls.
The too pro Apple irrational comments don't bother me so much but there are aspects of his posts that are deeply troubling... imho.
I think it would be fairly difficult to be too pro Apple on an Apple forum. The only people that would get really upset are the people who, for the most part, shouldn't be here in the first place.
I think the Android fans just want attention, since they don't have anything exciting to look forward to. They have to follow Apple to see what things Android is going to copy. If I were AppleInsider, I wouldn't post articles unless it was Apple related and wouldn't even post Android related articles.
How much of that side would we see, though, if there weren't so many anti-Apple trolls.
The pro Apple comments don't bother me so much but there are aspects of his posts that are deeply troubling... imho.
I pretty much agree with you too Island Hermit, except that I don't think it's impossible to be too pro-Apple on a pro-Apple site.
I also agree that there's a fair number of members attracted to AI for no other reason than to ridicule Apple owners when they see an opening, no efforts made to make a reasoned respectful post. IMHO AI deserves much of the blame for encouraging those comments, but I've discussed that in another thread previously so no need to throw this one off-topic any more than it already has.
I think the Android fans just want attention, since they don't have anything exciting to look forward to. They have to follow Apple to see what things Android is going to copy. If I were AppleInsider, I wouldn't post articles unless it was Apple related and wouldn't even post Android related articles.
That wouldn't keep the click count up, though.
I pretty much agree with you too Island Hermit, except that I don't think it's impossible to be too pro-Apple on a pro-Apple site.
As I've found out. The super duper fans have called me an Android troll and I've also been lambasted for straying slightly off the Apple party line.
The too pro Apple irrational comments don't bother me so much but there are aspects of his posts that are deeply troubling... imho.
They bother me. I'm bothered by any comment that puts the irrational before the rational, which include mine. I try to be consciousness of it but it does happen.
Am I as bothered, absolutely not, but that's because they aren't posts that are designed to derail the thread, they are just overzealous posters. In that same vain in a thread about a competing product it's perfectly reasonable if one defends the merits of other products because they think they are good. That should not mean people should call them a troll for defending a product in a thread that mentions them but it also shouldn't mean they should call others fanboys for not liking it.
You can have anecdotal stories and opinions about the pros and cons of all products while still remaining relatively objective*. I've stated that I think WinPh is great, and have been called a MS fanboy or something to that effect on this very forum, but I've also said that it's not great enough to make me switch OSes and ecosystems.
The other pro-Apple comments that bother me, and I think we're all guilty of, is the rumour mill spiraling out of control until we expect "magical" things from a technology company. Every week it's a dozen new rumours that are usually more fantastical than the last but rarely do they make sense. The ones that do make sense get comments such as "Duh!" and "In other news the sun will setting in the West." It's just not fun to dream logically, but that is what we should be doing if we are to accurate determine what will most likely transpire in the future.
* Objective isn't the most accurate term. Rational would probably be better.
Here is my take on the whole Android vs Apple vs Microsoft. Based on past history, when there are too many companies going after the same market and they use the same Operating System that eventually there becomes too many players and eventually the better run companies stand out and the others either go out of business or get bought up. This has happened in the Windows world until Dell and HP were the only two american computer makers stand out and now we have Microsoft clones coming out of Japan, China, and Korea that are around (to whatever extent). Now, we have Android repeating Microsoft's business model, but they don't sell their operating system and quite frankly, the direction is not very clear and most of their OEM customers also sell Microsoft products that compete. Well, I think that eventually these companies are either going to get bought up, go out of business or they are going to have to choose which OS they are going to support because the BIGGEST problem many of these companies do is to have too many products on their product list and that just creates a logistics nightmare and a support nightmare and these companies are now looking at Apple as guidance to how to run a company. In addition, NONE of these companies really control as much of their respective ecosystems as much as Apple, and that is a HUGE problem these companies have in order to have a viable solution. Samsung doesn't develop usable applications, they have to rely on third party developers. HP is buying software companies for the top end market, but not the desktop/tablet market. Dell is doing the same thing. The other companies like Acer, Lenovo, ASUS, etc., they just put out hardware. The Windows and Android markets are really just competing over price on hardware, which eventually creates low margins which will take them out of contention. Apple just has to continue making the products people want and reducing or eliminating various technical problems that crop up. None of the companies that compete with Apple have total control over their respective ecosystem and without that total control, they won't be in any better position to compete since they don't have as much control over the OS, development software, hardware design, support, content (apps, video, music, books, etc.) without that full ecosystem, they can't provide a complete solution. Apple knows that their customers would rather pay a little more for an easier to use, higher quality product rather than a ME TOO product that doesn't have the same level of customer service. One can have the best product in the world, but if they can't support very well, people will go elsewhere. I think Android has a MAJOR problem in the support area. Too fragmented, no real control by any of the vendors putting Android products on the market and eventually it will turn off customers. Where will the typical Android customer go, when they aren't satisfied? Apple or Microsoft? I personally think Apple since they have a better ecosystem than Microsoft since Microsoft has already proven with Windows 7 that they aren't making any dent in the Smartphone, Tablet, portable Media player markets and since Apple has been around for a while these top corporations need a company with a clear direction. As of now, there are almost 92% of the Fortune 500 that are either starting to purchase Apple products to replace WIndows, Android or some other brand that is failing, or is in serious evaluation mode.
You might as well have written that in machine code because that's not human readable.
...because they aren't posts that are designed to derail the thread, they are just overzealous posters.
... and that is why those type of posts don't bother me so much. Anyone being over zealous and/or irrational in a pro Apple way doesn't create a firestorm in the way that throwing an Android grenade into a thread does. An Android grenade, imo, does not include a well reasoned argument from an Apple fan who chose an Android product this time around... it does include, though, someone who goes out of their way to make it clear that Apple sucks at every level.
... and that is why those type of posts don't bother me so much. Anyone being over zealous and/or irrational in a pro Apple way doesn't create a firestorm in the way that throwing an Android grenade into a thread. An Android grenade, imo, does not include a well reasoned argument from an Apple chose an Android product this time around... it does include, though, someone who goes out of their way to make it clear that Apple sucks at every level.
I agree with that if you mean "Anyone being over zealous and/or irrational in a pro Apple way doesn't create a firestorm in the way that throwing an Android grenade into a thread [in an Apple-centric forum, and by that same token an over-zealous pro-Android user in an Android-centric forum doesn't create a firestorm the way someone would by going to an Android forum and throwing an Apple grenade.]
I think that's what you mean but I want to be crystal clear you are referring to the foundation of the contrarian v. advocator issue, not an Apple v. Android issue. Your comment is focused on AI so it can read as being the latter and not the former.
I agree with that if you mean "Anyone being over zealous and/or irrational in a pro Apple way doesn't create a firestorm in the way that throwing an Android grenade into a thread [in an Apple-centric forum, and by that same token an over-zealous pro-Android user in an Android-centric forum doesn't create a firestorm the way someone would by going to an Android forum and throwing an Apple grenade.]
I think that's what you mean but I want to be crystal clear you are referring to the foundation of the contrarian v. advocator issue, not an Apple v. Android issue. Your comment is focused on AI so it can read as being the latter and not the former.
contrarian v. advocator
I was trying to clarify by giving an example of my definition of an Android grenade.
(ie. I have a Samsung 23" monitor hooked to my iMac. It was cheaper than the Apple monitor and it does the intended job to my satisfaction.)
as opposed to:
(ie. I have a Samsung 23" monitor hooked to my Dell. It's way cheaper than any Apple monitor and besides, Apple monitors suck balls!)
contrarian v. advocator
Does that work? I scoured a thesaurus looking for what I thought was the most appropriate terminology.
I was trying to clarify by giving an example of my definition of an Android grenade.
(ie. I have a Samsung 23" monitor hooked to my iMac. It was cheaper than the Apple monitor and it does the intended job to my satisfaction.)
as opposed to:
(ie. I have a Samsung 23" monitor hooked to my Dell. It's way cheaper than any Apple monitor and besides, Apple monitors suck balls!)
I figured that's what you meant. Just wanted to be clear so people don't jump on tye nouns in your example instead of the actual meaning.
Does that work? I scoured a thesaurus looking for what I thought was the most appropriate terminology.
Not sure if it works (just because I don't know)... but I understood what you meant.
Not sure if it works (just because I don't know)... but I understood what you meant.
I think it comes down to a overly positive or negative lack of objectivity. Neither one helps a rational and thoughtful discussion.
You can have anecdotal stories and opinions about the pros and cons of all products while still remaining relatively objective*. I've stated that I think WinPh is great, and have been called a MS fanboy or something to that effect on this very forum, but I've also said that it's not great enough to make me switch OSes and ecosystems.
Oh my gosh and I thought you were this hardcore Apple guy that refused to own anything that didn't have a Apple on the back. Just kidding, I also really like Microsoft's new mobile OS. I think it's slowly becoming my favorite OS but it is still missing a few things to make it perfect. The first being decent apps, MS is in some desperate need of some quality apps. OTA, it took Apple forever to finally release this on their OS so I guess I can be patient but I really do not like updating the phone with Zune.
I don't want to write up a drawn out review of what I think of Mango so I'll some it up; it's extremely fast, simple but elegant, some of the best integration of social networking applications to date, superb e-mail client and a first rate browser. MS Mobile is vastly becoming a decent business phone, I think by the time version 8 is released I might give serious thought of migrating over that is if they can sort out their app shortage problem.
The first being decent apps, MS is in some desperate need of some quality apps. OTA, it took Apple forever to finally release this on their OS...
That's not true.
- June 2007 — iPhone released.
- October 2007 — Steve Jobs releases open letter to developers announcing iPhone OS SDK.
- March 2007 — First iPhone OS SDK beta released and App Store announced.
- July 2008 — iPhone OS 2.0 and App Store go live.
So it's been over 4 years since developers could start writing apps with Apple's SDK.I don't want to write up a drawn out review of what I think of Mango so I'll some it up; it's extremely fast, simple but elegant, some of the best integration of social networking applications to date, superb e-mail client and a first rate browser. MS Mobile is vastly becoming a decent business phone, I think by the time version 8 is released I might give serious thought of migrating over that is if they can sort out their app shortage problem.
It might be too late. It's more important to build well than to build quickly just to be first out of the gate but you also can't be too far behind and mostly follow in the leader's shoes. There has to be something that makes your product desirable to your customers.
With Android the customers are the carriers and HW vendors because they can add analytics, alter it and then lock it down as they see fit. Very few customers buy an Android-based device and say "I can't wait to install a custom ROM and then write drivers for the missing HW components."
MS has a good product in and of itself, but do they have a good enough product for the current and future market? It's not looking that way. It's looking like the Zune fiasco all over again. The Zune was a great product since version 2. It had refinements and features that made the iPod look antiquated but it was too late to make a difference and the focus had shifted to the smartphones. MS seems to be late with each attempt to enter the market.
That's not true.
- June 2007 ? iPhone released.
- October 2007 ? Steve Jobs releases open letter to developers announcing iPhone OS SDK.
- March 2007 ? First iPhone OS SDK beta released and App Store announced.
- July 2008 ? iPhone OS 2.0 and App Store go live.
So it's been over 4 years since developers could start writing apps with Apple's SDK.It might be too late. It's more important to build well than to build quickly just to be first out of the gate but you also can't be too far behind and mostly follow in the leader's shoes. There has to be something that makes your product desirable to your customers.
With Android the customers are the carriers and HW vendors because they can add analytics, alter it and then lock it down as they see fit. Very few customers buy an Android-based device and say "I can't wait to install a custom ROM and then write drivers for the missing HW components."
MS has a good product in and of itself, but do they have a good enough product for the current and future market? It's not looking that way. It's looking like the Zune fiasco all over again. The Zune was a great product since version 2. It had refinements and features that made the iPod look antiquated but it was too late to make a difference and the focus had shifted to the smartphones. MS seems to be late with each attempt to enter the market.
OTA, over the air updates which was just introduced in 2011, it took Apple almost 5 years to come out with it, that's a pretty long time.
I sure hope Microsoft can do it, we need more successful competition not less. Just having two main platforms to choose from just sucks. RIM is pretty much dead so now more then ever we need a good corporate mobile phone and I really think MS is the way to go. Here's hoping they can pull off the impossible.
If he's not making an attempt at a cogent argument and instead is intentionally trying to roil the seas with personal attacks, insults or wild unsubstantiated claims then yeah I think he could be acting trollish.
^^ This is the point, nothing to do with being pro-Apple, it's about his posting manner.
OTA, over the air updates which was just introduced in 2011, it took Apple almost 5 years to come out with it, that's a pretty long time.
I sure hope Microsoft can do it, we need more successful competition not less. Just having two main platforms to choose from just sucks. RIM is pretty much dead so now more then ever we need a good corporate mobile phone and I really think MS is the way to go. Here's hoping they can pull off the impossible.
Mea culpa. Thought were you referring to the SDK and App Store.
Slightly over 4 years* is a long time in tech but consider what has to be done to make it safe and effective.
It's not just making sure the system can hold the image, but making sure that the update can't be hacked so it pushed a malware update to users. This would happen fast enough that it's unlikely Apple could resolve the issue before devices are compromised.
Another issue, and the one that I think Apple has taken for too long to get a handle on, is the size of the updates. You can't have 700MB updates being pushed to a device over an 802.11g network every time you have a tertiary (x.x.1) point update.
Are there benefits to Apple's previous method? Absolutely! It's more secure and has built in redundancy but it means it's slow and clunky in comparison. It's much like iDisk is to Dropbox. IOW, if you lose a connection to an iDisk download you lose the entire file and have to start all over, but with Dropbox you maintain the packages you've already receive, hidden from view until they can be put together.
There are still issues with Apple's OTA update service as of iOS 5.0.1. For instance, if you didn't have enough room on your device in your "user space" the IPSW couldn't load the files that it needed. Or maybe it could expand the files after it downloaded them. Either way, it was an issue that I'd think could be easily resolved by the system first getting the download (or expanded installer) size before it starts. If it's not enough it could then inform you of the issue. As of 5.0.1 it didn't offer any usable error message.
Finally, there is network congestion. I'm sure you haven't thought about this but when Apple issues an iOS update it goes to all their iOS devices at the same time. This means 3 years of iPhone releases, 3 years of iPad Touch releases and soon to be 3 years of iPad releases. Now consider how many of those iOS-based devices Apple has sold since 2009. With other mobile OSes you get 1) stepped OTA updates so that even if you have a device that is updatable you may not get it for more than a month if your device isn't chosen by the powers that be. I knew of no way to contact HTC of MS to get the update for a WinPh device last year when Mango arrived. And that's just one device model!
You can't simply say that since one company did x that Apple should have been able to do x, too, without considering all the factors. Even then you can't say that because Apple could have technically done x that it would have been smart to do x simply because it was technically possible. We've seen this year-after-year as some new Apple-killer comes to market with specs that are technically superior but poorly executed. Bottom line: Having something you check off on a spec sheet doesn't mean shit if it doesn't work.
* If you are going to round then round to the nearest year.
Biased much?
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