Apple wants to make it easy for non-programmers to build iOS apps

245

Comments

  • filmantopiafilmantopia Posts: 86member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BoxMacCary View Post


    Fantastischer news!!



    Now, even a dope like me can get in on the App Store goldrush goodness!



    I call dibs on "Angry Farts" !



    I've been reading these forums for over five years and no comment has made me laugh like that one.
  • filmantopiafilmantopia Posts: 86member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by d-range View Post


    Dear god no, not another tool for 'non-programmers' to make applications. This idea has failed every.single.time anyone tried this, Google App Inventor being one of the last well-known examples. Apple should know better.



    The whole idea behind programming is that, since computers cannot think by themselves, you have to tell them exactly what to do. So unless you are 'programming' the umpteenth soundboard, or some picture of a monkey that starts making sounds if you shake the phone, you will have to figure everything out by yourself, and translate it into code.



    The list of things you can do by just tying together some pre-fab components and hook them up to UI events is limited to only the most useless of applications. If software development were as simple as that, you wouldn't need years of education and experience to get good at it. It's almost an insult to software engineers and programmers like myself, as if you could teach anyone to build bridges by just showing them how you can bolt some girders together.



    Yes, and we all know Apple's poor track record for succeeding where others have failed.
  • d-ranged-range Posts: 396member
    By the way, does anyone else see the irony in Apple developing something like this?



    I thought they Apple was big on iOS applications using all of the unique iOS features and capabilities (and rightfully so), and the only way you can do that is to invest in learning how to use the tools that allow you to do that, which means Objective-C, Cocoa, XCode. If this means the bar for entry is too high for people who don't know software development, than so be it.



    There's a reason most of the Flash content you will find on the web is utter crap, and it is not just because Flash as a development platform sucks.
  • d-ranged-range Posts: 396member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Filmantopia View Post


    Yes, and we all know Apple's poor track record for succeeding where others have failed. I mean, other that in personal computers, portable music players, smartphones, tablets, etc.



    Maybe you can elaborate this a little further, because I fail to see how any of Apple's previous success stories offer any insights about completely unrelated endeavors such as a programming language that basically writes programs for you.



    Are you implying that anything Apple tries is an automatic guarantee for success, just because they know how to build great MP3 players, phones, computers and tablets?
  • blitz1blitz1 Posts: 356member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MACT View Post


    Something on the order of HyperCard, in terms of programming complexity, would offer a nice intermediate approach that a lot of people could use without having learn too much about what is ?under the hood?



    Well, Hypercard is still alive and is now called Livecode aka Runrev.

    Incidentally, you can code against iOS, Android, W7.

    On top of it, the same code works on the 3 platforms...
  • jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,933member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by auxio View Post


    I think it makes more sense to create something like this for educational purposes, not commercial app development. Something like Smalltalk Scratch.



    I've never really understood the need for apps which are just repackaged versions of a company website. Just make a mobile version of your website.



    Technically, apps that repackage a web site probably shouldn't be made.



    I get annoyed at every site that asks me to download the app for their site.
  • filmantopiafilmantopia Posts: 86member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by d-range View Post


    Maybe you can elaborate this a little further, because I fail to see how any of Apple's previous success stories offer any insights about completely unrelated endeavors such as a programming language that basically writes programs for you.



    Are you implying that anything Apple tries is an automatic guarantee for success, just because they know how to build great MP3 players, phones, computers and tablets?



    I'm implying that it's a little silly to dismiss Apple's ability to create something successful in this area. Apple can't make a great filmmaker or musician out of the non-talented, but it can enable those who aren't technically advanced to do something pretty decent.



    I'm a filmmaker, and the idea of making an app that ties into my web series is a pretty exciting prospect. Doesnt seem like something that would require a ton of coding wizardry, just some moderate logistical and aesthetic control.
  • digitalclipsdigitalclips Posts: 15,320member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by scotty321 View Post


    And then they can discontinue it, like iWeb.





    I hear you. However, it does state this can be for an iOS app, webpage or advertisement, so maybe Apple isn't not abandon web creation totally.
  • ecsecs Posts: 307member
    I don't think this system can be used to develop apps others would pay for, unless you write code, of course. Making an interesting app without writing code isn't possible, because in that case you'll have to reuse modules developed by third-parties, and such third-party can develop the app better than you.



    Anyway, the thing I most dislike from this announcement is Java. Please don't force the iPhone to crawl and waste battery running Java libs. Android tried to drive into a world of everything-Java, and they failed (they had to release a native SDK, because that's what the world needs).



    Please Apple, if some developer wants to use Java, allow him to do so, but don't drive us into a Java platform. Please don't. We just want XCode and gcc.
  • tasslehawftasslehawf Posts: 75member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by knightlie View Post


    Last time I saw anthing like this it was a tool called Matrix Layout back in the 90s, and it was utter junk. If anyone can make this work Apple can, but as a programmer I've yet to be convinced that these types of tools can do much more than create photo albums and very simple, generic apps.



    I think that's exactly what they're going for. Simple apps. Though I'm not sure why they'd want to do this after the whole spat of 'native is superior to crappy compile flash apps'. It's kindof hurtful too, as a developer.



    But I could see how the frameworks that Apple has gone through the trouble of creating (i.e. table views, nav controller, tab bar, etc.) could be lightly modified to compile out a full application with no coding at all. Sortof where IB is almost already.
  • kasakkakasakka Posts: 55member
    Oh god no. People with no design experience should not be let anywhere near application development. Often neither should the people with no idea about programming.



    As a tool, this could be nice for quickly making iOS UIs but in the hands of users with no eye for design this will just result in the app store being flooded with subpar crap on top of the subpar crap already in it.



    Just look at MySpace and see what customization capability did to that.
  • auxioauxio Posts: 1,651member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    I get annoyed at every site that asks me to download the app for their site.



    I guess the upside is that if I downloaded every website app, I could just use Spotlight as my default search engine in Safari.
  • anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,558member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    Technically, apps that repackage a web site probably shouldn't be made.



    I get annoyed at every site that asks me to download the app for their site.



    That's not always a bad thing. The Yelp app, particularly on iPad, is much nicer than the Yelp web site, even though its mostly just repackaging the website content. The real problem, I think, are apps that are nothing more than a UIWebView displaying the web site... what's the point.
  • auxioauxio Posts: 1,651member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    That's not always a bad thing. The Yelp app, particularly on iPad, is much nicer than the Yelp web site, even though its mostly just repackaging the website content. The real problem, I think, are apps that are nothing more than a UIWebView displaying the web site... what's the point.



    If the app is going to add some extra functionality which is unique to iOS (but still pull it's content from the website), then I don't have a problem with it.



    The problem I have is when an app does exactly the same thing the website does, or just adds something generic (like location searching) which could easily be accomplished in HTML5. Just make a mobile version of the site, allow people to bookmark it to an app link if they want, and be done with it.
  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    That's not always a bad thing. The Yelp app, particularly on iPad, is much nicer than the Yelp web site, even though its mostly just repackaging the website content. The real problem, I think, are apps that are nothing more than a UIWebView displaying the web site... what's the point.



    i don't think he's arguing that a native app can't be more useful and refined than a web-based site, only that it's annoying that every time you access the site from iOS you get a JS layover that wants to tell you about their App Store app. I've already clicked the 'x' on the overlay once so it shouldn't be reminding me every... single... time I access that site.



    For example, I don't want to use the IMDb app to access IMDb. I don't even like their mobile version for my iPhone. Unfortunately it's become so annoying that I no longer frequent IMDb as much as i used to. Not just on my iPhone, but also on my Mac as a result of collateral damage.
  • z3r0z3r0 Posts: 228member
    How about moving away from objective c? It's a funky language. I wouldn't mind C# on LLVM/Clang with the Cocoa framework. The C# language is good but .Net is garbage.



    Dynamic languages like Perl 6, Python, PHP etc... that compile to LLVM byte code and can utilize Cocoa would be great too. Haxe is picking up steam too.
  • juandljuandl Posts: 226member
    I think this is great news. Probably most if not all the crowd here will considerate a joke.

    Borrowing part of a line from that Pixar Rat film, "Anyone can Cook".

    99% of us mortals will never be able to code, but a much bigger number can have decent ideas. This help from Apple will help those out with some type of idea that might have a chance of success. Not that it could be a finished product by any measure. BUT, what it could do. It would allow us non-doers to fiddle around with an idea. Anyone can have an Idea. What if they came up with something. The little app they create could serve as a brief or something to show off the idea or the intent of the app.

    It is very easy to come up with ideas (for some people). But it is not very easy to express that idea to somebody, especially people that speak a different language (code).

    Take myself as an example. I am full of ideas, in my mind most of the stuff i think of seems to be as good or better than some stuff on the app stores. But even though it is somewhat easy to find a programmer, it is more difficult to refine the idea.

    Maybe this can be of help to us those others.
  • majortom1981majortom1981 Posts: 305member
    I am gathering based on the comments none of you have heard of multimedia fusion. Its used to create games and apps without code(you can code a plugin if you want).



    Its very successfull and some popular flash and ios games have been created with it.



    Look it up its made by clickteam.



    Why not just buy click team and tailor multimedia fusion for ios devices?
  • freediverxfreediverx Posts: 1,340member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by icoco3 View Post


    This has been tried before...ultimately, to get a good and unique app, you will still need to get under the hood and do some coding.



    I'm not sure that Apple is designing this for would-be app developers. I think it's meant as a Flash substitute for designing animated/interactive ads and perhaps for small businesses who want to create simple apps without hiring a developer for tens of thousands of dollars or more... might be cool, if not for the potential flood of annoying animated ads.
  • jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,933member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by auxio View Post


    I guess the upside is that if I downloaded every website app, I could just use Spotlight as my default search engine in Safari.



    Wouldn't it just as easily search your bookmarks too?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    That's not always a bad thing. The Yelp app, particularly on iPad, is much nicer than the Yelp web site, even though its mostly just repackaging the website content. The real problem, I think, are apps that are nothing more than a UIWebView displaying the web site... what's the point.



    Does it do more or better as a native app than you would reasonably expect to see from a web app?
Sign In or Register to comment.