Australian government, Apple can't reach deal on branding of 4G LTE iPad

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Comments

  • jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tm.smile View Post


    The LTE that telstra offers is as fast, if not faster than many other networks around the world that are also called '4G'. I mean, even AT&T brands HSDPA+ as 4G! Its about time someone sorted the terminology out....



    They did. There's an international standard used almost everywhere but Australia which says that HSPA+ is 4G.
  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    However (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipodes):



    Here is an interesting webpage I've used before. Unfortunately with the world being mostly covered with water it was hard to find any place I'd ever been to that was antipodal to another land mass.
  • geoadmgeoadm Posts: 81member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    How about "iPad 4G everywhere that uses standard international definitions of '4G', but not in Australia where they make up their own definitions"?



    i think its like they all around the world as there is no 'standard'
  • drobforeverdrobforever Posts: 400member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    They did. There's an international standard used almost everywhere but Australia which says that HSPA+ is 4G.



    I don't blame Australia for not accepting this crappy definition of '4G'. The thing is, Apple is free not to sell their '4G' iPads in Australia, but Australia is also free to not accept this name. I think that's fair for both sides.
  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post


    Source? I don't believe that ever occurred, and the Largest 3G campaign you mentioned started in 09 isn't that old and the entire network was already 3G by that point. AT&T took issue with the campaign for how VZ portrayed THEIR network as misleading and tried to sue and dropped it; admitting VZ indeed was larger just not always the fastest...but that had nothing to do with 1X.



    1) There old maps showed 3G coverage which then included 1x. I know because I remarked on it years ago. I might have posted screenshots but I probably just linked to the Verizon coverage map.



    2) As you can see from this Qualcomm page they state pre-EV-DO tech as being 3G. It's perfectly acceptable which is why AT&T had no platform to make a solid case. They had more of a case with T-Mobile but instead we saw them cave on that, too.



    Bottom line: Calling anything under he CDMA2000 umbrella 3G is perfectly acceptable, even if it is slower than competing technologies labeled as 2G.
  • nagrommenagromme Posts: 2,834member
    It seems simple to me. However ?4G? is legally defined in a given market, follow that definition!



    ?4G? does not always equal ?LTE,? but if it does in Australia, then Apple either needs a new name or extremely clear warnings.



    The refund option is important, because I?m sure many people would choose the WiFi version instead. Now they can change their mind and swap for a cheaper iPad. It?s not that they don?t like their iPad, it?s that they bought a more expensive one than they might have.



    P.S. I think the most useful definition of 4G is to throw the term out. Second most useful: use it for whatever ?4th gen? standard has the widest coverage area; not the fastest speeds in certain spots. We already have the terms ?LTE? and ?WiMax? so why make the term ?4G? become identical? ?4G? didn?t meant ?LTE? to begin with. Toss it out or let it keep its meaning of ?4th generation.? Remember AT&T vs. Verizon ?3G?? Verizon ?3G? was almost the same in speed and capability as AT&T?s 2nd-gen EDGE! Yet technically it was ?3rd generation.? Throw these generation terms out.
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mightymike View Post


    What about cars that are advertised to go 100+ mph when you can't drive that fast?





    Which car ads say that a car can go 100+ MPH?



    I have never seen any car ad that says anything like that.
  • aderutteraderutter Posts: 223member
    Personally I don't think Apple have done anything wrong.



    I could buy a 3g phone without a contract and then choose to use it on a 3g network or a 2g network. Either way the device is still 3g capable so calling it a 3g phone shouldn't be a problem.



    Just because Australia don't have the networks shouldn't stop Apple selling/naming the tech/devices. Btw, we don't have 4g here in the UK either and we don't seem to be confused.
  • solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aderutter View Post


    Just because Australia don't have the networks shouldn't stop Apple selling/naming the tech/devices. Btw, we don't have 4g here in the UK either and we don't seem to be confused.



    This is where it gets sticky. Australia does have 4G LTE, it's just that it's not compatible with the LTE power amps in the iPad (3).
  • paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,290member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mightymike View Post


    What about cars that are advertised to go 100+ mph when you can't drive that fast? Do cars come with a disclaimer?



    Its not a good comparison. I would argue that 4g is a major feature which implies speed. Data speed is important to people. The day that there is a speed limit - say 300mbps, and a device maker advertises or lists as a feature that their device is capable of twice that, then the whole issue would be mute. Nobody would care.
  • anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,558member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    Here is an interesting webpage I've used before. Unfortunately with the world being mostly covered with water it was hard to find any place I'd ever been to that was antipodal to another land mass.



    That's why it's important to own a boat.
  • paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,290member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aderutter View Post


    Personally I don't think Apple have done anything wrong.



    I could buy a 3g phone without a contract and then choose to use it on a 3g network or a 2g network. Either way the device is still 3g capable so calling it a 3g phone shouldn't be a problem.



    Just because Australia don't have the networks shouldn't stop Apple selling/naming the tech/devices. Btw, we don't have 4g here in the UK either and we don't seem to be confused.



    well you seem to be - If you bought you 3g device only to find that the 3g in the UK is different than the 3g in the US and now your phone will only work on 2g, which is what you already had, you might be a wee bit peeved. And Australia does have the network, as does the UK. It is called 4g but it happens not to be the right kind of 4g network. Consumer shouldn't need to know this.
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon Posts: 483member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    How about "iPad 4G everywhere that uses standard international definitions of '4G', but not in Australia where they make up their own definitions"?



    Everybody makes up their own definitions. Screw technology. Marketing Rules!
  • paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,290member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    That's why it's important to own a boat.



  • kent909kent909 Posts: 656member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by paxman View Post


    Apple is being uncool about this. It is clearly misleading and everybody knows it. For all but Norh Americans, 4g should be removed from the marketing.



    This is silly. I live in the U.S. in a small town. We barely have 3G. We may never have 4G and even if I go to a city that does have 4G, technically it isn't 4G. Show me anywhere that has 100mb down. I don't think it is Apple that is being misleading I think it is the telcos that are misleading far more people. Apple offered to take any unit back that the person felt they were misled. I always think it is admirable when a company gives you your money back even when it is your own ignorance that created the issue.
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by paxman View Post


    It is called 4g but it happens not to be the right kind of 4g network. Consumer shouldn't need to know this.



    It is a perfectly OK network. The iPad does not have the right kind of chip.
  • aderutteraderutter Posts: 223member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by paxman View Post


    well you seem to be - If you bought you 3g device only to find that the 3g in the UK is different than the 3g in the US and now your phone will only work on 2g, which is what you already had, you might be a wee bit peeved.



    I'm not that dumb that I'd expect tech to work the same in all countries. My experience of PAL/NTSC/SECAM would tell me to research.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by paxman View Post


    And Australia does have the network, as does the UK. It is called 4g but it happens not to be the right kind of 4g network. Consumer shouldn't need to know this.



    UK doesn't - it might be in trial in a few small select areas but that's not the same as being able to go into a shop in any city in the UK and buy. I live in the UK and have no access to 4g anywhere I live or work. I can't even get 3g in my house or at work.



    Consumers should not have to be treated like idiots. I despise this constant dumbing down "on my behalf".



    I guess in the end as has been pointed out the outcome will depend upon the legal definitions of "4g".
  • irnchrizirnchriz Posts: 1,451member
    The iPad itself isn't branded wifi or wifi+4G it just says iPad. Why not just remove 4G references from the Australian website??
  • paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,290member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kent909 View Post


    This is silly. I live in the U.S. in a small town. We barely have 3G. We may never have 4G and even if I go to a city that does have 4G, technically it isn't 4G. Show me anywhere that has 100mb down. I don't think it is Apple that is being misleading I think it is the telcos that are misleading far more people. Apple offered to take any unit back that the person felt they were misled. I always think it is admirable when a company gives you your money back even when it is your own ignorance that created the issue.



    I agree that to offer to take back the device from dissatisfied customers is good and I am the first to sing Apple's praises in 99% of cases. But just not this one.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aderutter View Post


    Consumers should not have to be treated like idiots. I despise this constant dumbing down "on my behalf".



    I guess in the end as has been pointed out the outcome will depend upon the legal definitions of "4g".



    Its not 'dumbing down' nor is it treating people like idiots. It is about making a misleading claim - which was totally unnecessary in the first place. Apple is all about 'it just works' and 'no manual' which has nothing to do with dumbing down.



    You may be right that the outcome may depend on a legal definition - but it shouldn't have to. That doesn't serve anybody well. Least of all Apple.
  • therbotherbo Posts: 70member
    This is an American company trying to force false terminology onto countries where the right terminology exist.



    In the UK we don't consider HSPA+ to be 4G, we don't even consider DC-HSPA 3G despite the fact it gets near-same-speeds as LTE.



    Some of us don't consider LTE to be 4G, and it isn't 4G. I only consider LTE-Advanced to be true 4G. I know in the UK the ONLY phone I know of that ever mentioned what speeds it could connect to is the iPhone 3G, we don't call phones or tablets here by what connectivity they have, because we know it will just work on whatever network we wish.



    as long as it isn't an American product.
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