Apple Store will be back soon 1:42 AM

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
<a href="http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/020429/200204290322000111_3.html"; target="_blank">http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/020429/200204290322000111_3.html</a>;



What is this? WTF??? 1 GHz G4 in old iMac or something? What could warrant a $2000 price tag on an old form-factor iMac?



What's going on?



[ 04-29-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 19
    wormboywormboy Posts: 220member
    Well, it could include a software package for education (say Matlab?? ) and powerschool client? Still $2000 for an education machine seems high.
  • Reply 2 of 19
    I found another link with a reference to the new eMac.



    "Apple Computer is unveiling the eMac, its first PC designed exclusively for schools and universities, in a bid to defend its place in the education market."



    <a href="http://investor.cnet.com/investor/news/newsitem/0-9900-1028-9801037-0.html"; target="_blank">News.com/WSJ</a>



    -Snowster



    [ 04-29-2002: Message edited by: Snowster ]



    [ 04-29-2002: Message edited by: Snowster ]</p>
  • Reply 3 of 19
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member




    I suppose it's current hardware now.



    [ 04-29-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
  • Reply 4 of 19
    [quote]Originally posted by Eugene:

    <strong><a href="http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/020429/200204290322000111_3.html"; target="_blank">http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/020429/200204290322000111_3.html</a>;



    What is this? WTF??? 1 GHz G4 in old iMac or something? What could warrant a $2000 price tag on an old form-factor iMac?



    What's going on?



    Isn't it priced at $1199 for the most expensive?



    Wich seems pretty cheap compared to the new iMac.



    [ 04-29-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
  • Reply 5 of 19
    matsumatsu Posts: 6,558member
    WOOT???



    This is a gag right?
  • Reply 6 of 19
    matsumatsu Posts: 6,558member
    It's no gag. Murbot, break out the eBay and the plastic, we need some machine reviews.



    And look a decent looking PB spec!
  • Reply 7 of 19
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    Yeah, $1199...there's actually a 512 MB RAM model for around $1500 too, but I think Yahoo! or the WSJ made a typo in the link above.
  • Reply 8 of 19
    wormboywormboy Posts: 220member
    Too expensive! It's gotta be under a grand with a CRT. Perhaps Apple pries it high so that when a school comes to them to negotiate a bulk discount, they think that they are getting a better deal? Or maybe Apple wants to push them into ibooks??
  • Reply 9 of 19
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    Not too expensive, but the CRT iMac and eMac shouldn't coexist! get rid of the old iMacs, replace it with G3 eMacs...The old iMac is pretty much only selling in the .edu market anyway nowadays.



    .edu only...



    600 MHz G3 eMac

    128 MB RAM

    20 GB HDD

    CD-ROM Drive

    ~$750



    700 MHz G3 eMac

    256 MB RAM

    40 GB HDD

    CD-RW Drive

    ~$1000
  • Reply 10 of 19
    nonsuchnonsuch Posts: 293member
    [quote]Originally posted by Eugene:

    [QB]Not too expensive, but the CRT iMac and eMac shouldn't coexist! get rid of the old iMacs, replace it with G3 eMacs...The old iMac is pretty much only selling in the .edu market anyway nowadays.

    <hr></blockquote>



    Any machine coming bundled with OS X will benefit from having a G4 under the hood. Apple should be phasing out the G3, not phasing it back in. And while I don't remember the specifics, I don't think G4 chips are significantly more expensive than G3s at all.
  • Reply 11 of 19
    matsumatsu Posts: 6,558member
    You're right about the prices. People always talk about IBM like some kind of savior, but untill last year IBM was charging nearly G4 prices for it's fastest G3. The 700Mhz G3 was quite pricy. When Apple semi-retired the iMac CRT, you'll notice they dropped the 700 model. Mot's G4's are actually much more reasonably priced. The top G4 is about 60-65% the price of the top P4, that's probably why Apple has been able to (quite easily) offer numerous DP configs over the last couple of years.



    Mot has been SLOW compared to x86 progress, but their prices have been decent. IBM has been even Slower, and their prices for higher speed G3's have been/are too high.



    [ 04-29-2002: Message edited by: Matsu ]</p>
  • Reply 12 of 19
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    The prices are not 'close.' Jesus, Matsu, I swear you pull info out of your butt so often...do you have a high fiber diet?



    The 600 MHz PPC 750CXe was $140 in February 2001. Imagine how cheap it is now. How much do you think a 600 MHz MPC7450/7455 is right now? In August 2001, a 667 MHz MPC7450 was $340.
  • Reply 13 of 19
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    And I will say this again, OS X is hardly optimized. And even then, it's bundled iApps that are optimized and not the OS. The DVD Player has a bit of AltiVec assist. I have found no better Quartz performance in a 500 MHz G4 vs a 500 MHz G3. In fact, a 600 MHz G3 works much better than a 500 MHz G4 with window dragging and other 2D niceties.



    Eventually OS X may be AltiVec optimized out the wazoo, but right now the altivec branch of the Apple/gcc project is very lame indeed. And Apple is still more focused on getting things to work right, and not fast.
  • Reply 14 of 19
    matsumatsu Posts: 6,558member
    A 1Ghz G4 was $295 and an 800Mhz G4 was $125 US as of January 29th. Right now they can only be lower. I bet that no G3's over 500Mhz are currently availble from IBM are under 75USD, and that the 700 continues to carry a steep premium over the 600. Now since IBM doesn't have any G3 even close to 800Mhz G4 performance I think it safe to say that the chips in question(700Mhz G3 and 800Mhz G4) and the prices are comparable.



    I would not be surprised at all to find a 700Mhz G3 close in price to an 800Mhz G4.



    Here you go, <a href="http://www.macinfo.de/archiv/2002-01.html"; target="_blank">straight from my ass</a>



    Apple certainly didn't put a 300 dollar CPU in a machine over which they can't stop crying about margins.
  • Reply 15 of 19
    matsumatsu Posts: 6,558member
    Also, that means that a 600 and 733 can only be cheaper than the 800. That puts them in G3 territory. They ARE close, unless IBM is just giving away G3's. 600-700Mhz G4 is (price-wise) now a viable option for the iBook.
  • Reply 16 of 19
    dobbydobby Posts: 797member
    The apple store also shows an 800mhz TiBook
  • Reply 17 of 19
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    [quote]Originally posted by Matsu:

    <strong>A 1Ghz G4 was $295 and an 800Mhz G4 was $125 US as of January 29th. Right now they can only be lower. I bet that no G3's over 500Mhz are currently availble from IBM are under 75USD, and that the 700 continues to carry a steep premium over the 600. Now since IBM doesn't have any G3 even close to 800Mhz G4 performance I think it safe to say that the chips in question(700Mhz G3 and 800Mhz G4) and the prices are comparable.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I bet you a pretty penny that a 700 MHz PPC 750CX is around or under $70 in quantities of 10K.



    I bet you a 600 MHz is around $50.



    A 400 MHz IBM PPC 750CX was $57 in February 2001



    The 750CX and CXe series were designed to be exceptionally low-cost. And by taking away $50 in component pricing alone, that's quite an increase in sales margin. Plus consider you don't need to use such a large fan or perhaps no fan at all with a 700 MHz PPX 750 CXe since it runs at 6.5 watts typical instead of more 15 watts typical. You could probably use a lesser power supply too. You're looking at component savings of at least $100 if you combine a 600 MHz G3 with a CD-ROM instead of a CD-RW drive...that would translate into a decent price drop for the educator and Apple could stop selling the $699 and $899 iMacs, stop production of old iMacs completely.



    [ 04-30-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
  • Reply 18 of 19
    matsumatsu Posts: 6,558member
    The power consumption for the latest SOI G4's (which are the quoted models) is quite good considering. You have to think that a 600Mhz G4 is under 100, probably close to 700MhzG3, and will have still lower power consumption than the 800Mhz G4. It will pretty much go into any space a fast G3 would go. Apple has now dumped G3 in it's two latest major introductions. Why? Power and marketing I guess. But also, price. As I stated before "when the original CRT iMac was semi-retired", ie the debut of LCD iMac, the prices had become comparable between the fastest G3 and the 700-800Mhz G4. Cooling issues can be taken care of courtesy of a product redesign, and your not going to cut your budget on the price of fans (though every little bit helps).



    Fact remains Apple dropped the 700Mhz G3 iMac. Why wouldn't an already slow machine at least use the fastest chip available? Price. Apple couldn't get a really cheap iMacG3 using the 700. Maybe they still can't, or they just won't bother now, since every sign points to it's eminent death. Another reason to keep G3's around must have been the well publicized inability of Mot to supply G4's from the very beginning -- ie. the infamous speed dropped G4 350 -- now that they seem to be able to supply good quantities of G4, Apple no longer has to scrounge every available proc for it's most expensive machines and it isn't. They ship G4's in 2/3rds of their line and 3/4 of their main quadrant.



    Availabilty problems (from G4) kept the G3 around, not any particularly good pricing performance. Especially once Mot started to supply greater quantities (and drop prices in it's own right). Something must have been afoot in AIM during the time just before the G4 ramp-up, as IBM prices were not that cheap only shortly before. Sahara was talked about with an SIMD, and then SIMD discussion was dropped. IBM might have lost some supply bids once Apple figured it could get good yields, prices, and efficiency from upcoming Moto product.



    [ 04-30-2002: Message edited by: Matsu ]</p>
  • Reply 19 of 19
    thttht Posts: 5,421member
    <strong>Originally posted by Matsu:

    Something must have been afoot in AIM during the time just before the G4 ramp-up, as IBM prices were not that cheap only shortly before. Sahara was talked about with an SIMD, and then SIMD discussion was dropped. IBM might have lost some supply bids once Apple figured it could get good yields, prices, and efficiency from upcoming Moto product.</strong>



    As soon as Motorola redesigned the 4 stage pipeline 7400 based G4 to a 7 stage 7450 based G4, it was all over for IBM, even with the G3 being twice as small in die size as the G4. A 700 MHz G3 is a low yield high margin product for IBM at 0.18 micron. 700 MHz is pushing the MHz limits for the G3 at 0.18 micron. For Moto's 7450 based G4, 700 MHz chips are the dregs of the wafer. They could get 7450 based G4s to clock at 700 MHz with its eyes closed at 0.18 micron.



    Clock-wise it will only get worse for IBM when the playing field moves to 0.13 micron.
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