Google at work on major battery improvements with help from former Apple expert

Posted:
in General Discussion edited April 2015
A small Google team is at work on developing batteries to overcome some of the obstacles of modern devices, under the leadership of a former Apple expert, according to a recent report.




Sources told The Wall Street Journal that the team is being led by Dr. Ramesh Bhardwaj as part of the Google X research group, and is so far comprised of just four people. The project is said to have begun in 2012.

The Journal noted that in 2013, CEO Larry Page said that battery life in mobile devices was a major problem that could lead to "new and better experiences" if it was solved. Bhardwaj has reportedly told industry executives that Google has at least 20 battery-reliant projects. Some of these include its self-driving car prototypes and Google Glass.

Bhardwaj's team is said to be working not just on improving lithium-ion technology but developing solid-state batteries, which are less chemcially volatile and can be manufactured in thin, pliable layers, making them especially suitable for devices like wearables. The current obstacle is believed to be cheap mass production.

The sources add that separate Google teams are collaboarating with AllCell Technologies on batteries for four projects. Among these is Project Loon, Google's attempt to spread Internet access to remote regions using high-flying balloons.

Battery life is one of the most common complaints about all modern electronics, including those made by Apple. The issue might be especially critical for Apple's rumored electric car project, and indeed, a poaching war between Apple and Tesla may be connected. In February, a poaching lawsuit was directed against Apple by A123 Systems, known for its battery technology.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 20
    jm6032jm6032 Posts: 147member

    As I see it, for every incremental increase in battery capacity, we will see incremental increases in functionality of portable devices as in, "We just increased the battery capacity 20% in the same physical size! We can now power a display twice the resolution as before. Oh, and yes, you will still have to charge it overnight."

  • Reply 2 of 20
    mike1mike1 Posts: 3,275member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jm6032 View Post

     

    As I see it, for every incremental increase in battery capacity, we will see incremental increases in functionality of portable devices as in, "We just increased the battery capacity 20% in the same physical size! We can now power a display twice the resolution as before. Oh, and yes, you will still have to charge it overnight."




    I agree. The expectation of a full day's use for electronic devices has mostly been met by phones and exceeded by tablets - for most people, most of the time. Unless there is a significant breakthrough that somehow defies the laws of physics, no manufacturer is going to not improve performance or forgo features or improve design exclusively to provide more time between charges.

     

    That said, the automotive industry has not yet found or met the expectation for the general public. Charging a phone every day may be acceptable. Charging a car every day is probably not.

  • Reply 3 of 20
    jm6032 wrote: »
    As I see it, for every incremental increase in battery capacity, we will see incremental increases in functionality of portable devices as in, "We just increased the battery capacity 20% in the same physical size! We can now power a display twice the resolution as before. Oh, and yes, you will still have to charge it overnight."

    Yep.

    Smartphones get bigger batteries which make you think they will get longer battery life.

    But then they slap a pointless 2560x1440 screen on them... negating all that extra battery capacity.
  • Reply 4 of 20
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,043member
    You first have to ask why Dr. Ramesh Bhardwaj would leave Apple to work for Google who does not really make products. Apple is pushing the envelope of battery operate electronics or Tesla. I am thinking Dr. Ramesh Bhardwaj could not hack it at Apple so he ran to google. Individuals like Dr. Ramesh Bhardwaj would have it pretty easy at apple doing basic research. I Just find it interesting we I see people like this leaving a company especially Apple. Most time they stay for very long time since they are paid well and do not have to deal with normal company BS.
  • Reply 5 of 20
    maltamalta Posts: 78member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post



    You first have to ask why Dr. Ramesh Bhardwaj would leave Apple to work for Google who does not really make products. Apple is pushing the envelope of battery operate electronics or Tesla. I am thinking Dr. Ramesh Bhardwaj could not hack it at Apple so he ran to google. Individuals like Dr. Ramesh Bhardwaj would have it pretty easy at apple doing basic research. I Just find it interesting we I see people like this leaving a company especially Apple. Most time they stay for very long time since they are paid well and do not have to deal with normal company BS.

    Any number of reasons someone could choose to leave. Maybe it was having to be focused on the bottom line and ROI, deadline pressure, laser focused on a few products or problems, management, co-workers, pay, location, drunken mistake, etc. 

  • Reply 6 of 20
    msanttimsantti Posts: 1,377member
    So a search and advertising company are now battery experts.

    Okay.
  • Reply 7 of 20
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,092member

    "Former" Apple folks have pretty much failed outside of Apple so I don't have any high hopes on this, especially with Google involved.



    I can already see it.  While charging your battery, an ad would pop up to click so you can charge the batter in half the time.

  • Reply 8 of 20
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    msantti wrote: »
    So a search and advertising company are now battery experts.

    Okay.

    Nokia was originally a paper manufacturer, Tiffany was originally a stationary store, Coleco originally sold leather goods, and Hasbro was a school supplies manufacturer.
  • Reply 9 of 20
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by msantti View Post



    So a search and advertising company are now battery experts.



    Okay.



    The future of their kind of advertising is not good. I'd get out of it if I were them.

  • Reply 10 of 20
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    the industry needs to figure these aluminum-ion batteries out -- one-minute charging times for a smartphone.

    http://techcrunch.com/2015/04/07/aluminum-ion/
  • Reply 11 of 20
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

     

    "Former" Apple folks have pretty much failed outside of Apple so I don't have any high hopes on this, especially with Google involved.

     


     

    I really wonder what Scott Forstall is upto. He was hardly mentioned in the Becoming Steve Jobs book either.

  • Reply 12 of 20
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,382member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BestKeptSecret View Post

     

     

    I really wonder what Scott Forstall is upto. He was hardly mentioned in the Becoming Steve Jobs book either.


     

    I have been INSANELY curious as to what he's been doing. He basically became a ghost after he left, pretty amazing for someone of his stature. 

  • Reply 13 of 20
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by msantti View Post



    So a search and advertising company are now battery experts.



    Okay.

     

    Funny how everytime some random engineer working in some back office doing skunk work at Google, we hear about it, while Apple could have 5K engineers working round the clock for 5 years working on batteries and you'd only hear about it when they announced it being used in a product shipping 200M units a year....

  • Reply 14 of 20
    dasanman69 wrote: »
    Nokia was originally a paper manufacturer, Tiffany was originally a stationary store, Coleco originally sold leather goods, and Hasbro was a school supplies manufacturer.
    My favorite is Royal Doulton which early on produced salt glazed sewer pipes!
  • Reply 15 of 20
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member

    I am rather surprised Apple haven't approached the University of Limerick, here in Ireland.  They have developed a germanium nano-wire anode technology for Li-Ion batteries that more than doubles their capacity.  They can also potentially be recharged in less than a minute.

     

    I am wondering if these companies are doing it on their own, so to speak, in the hope they can make their own breakthroughs so they can patent the tech and have exclusivity over it, rather than pay royalties.

     

     

    image

     

    http://www.ul.ie/news-centre/news/researchers-make-breakthrough-in-battery-technology/

  • Reply 16 of 20
    revenantrevenant Posts: 621member

    it is to my understanding that batteries have trouble with the cathode corroding. after a certain number of discharges the capacity of charge drops continuously due to the cathode being eroded. new materials are great in charging it quicker, but are usually no better in cathode corrosion. 

     

    there are a few universities around the world that have found ways to increase the amount of potential energy and quicken the charge, but typically have the age old problem of the cathode.

  • Reply 17 of 20
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NolaMacGuy View Post



    the industry needs to figure these aluminum-ion batteries out -- one-minute charging times for a smartphone.



    http://techcrunch.com/2015/04/07/aluminum-ion/

     

    I find it hilarious that nobody has yet grasped that you can't improve charging times by 100x without supplying 100x more current. Good luck doing that with a tiny iPhone charger...

  • Reply 18 of 20
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    I find it hilarious that nobody has yet grasped that you can't improve charging times by 100x without supplying 100x more current. Good luck doing that with a tiny iPhone charger...

    if these actual engineers working on battery technology think it will be faster, then im going to take their word over some guy on the web with a 28-post history.
  • Reply 19 of 20
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NolaMacGuy View Post





    if these actual engineers working on battery technology think it will be faster, then im going to take their word over some guy on the web with a 28-post history.



    He is quite correct.  Usually researchers quote maximum capabilities under ideal conditions.  If a phone were to get a battery that could be charged that quickly the manufacturer could supply a charger capable of significantly more current, but that would significantly increase it's cost.  More likely you might see a compromise with a more capable charger but a charging time nowhere near the theoretical limit.

     

    The trouble with the Aluminium based battery is that it does not address the main problem, which is energy density/capacity.

     

    Samsung's S6 has a fast charging capability where a ten minute charge will give enough juice for 4 hours of use.

  • Reply 20 of 20
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    cnocbui wrote: »
    He is quite correct.

    let me now rephrase it -- if these actual engineers working on battery technology think it will be faster, then im going to take their word over some guy two guys on the web. especially a professional naysayer.
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