Obama Politicizes Another Tragedy

Posted:
in PoliticalOutsider edited September 2015

http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-statement-on-charleston-shooting-2015-6

 

Quote:


We don't have all the facts, but we do know that once again, innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hand on a gun.

Now is the time for mourning and for healing. But let's be clear. At some point, we as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries. It doesn't happen in other places with this kind of frequency.



 

First, he's wrong (totally) on gun rights and what would actually reduce gun violence. Beyond better background checks and better mental health services, passing additional laws restricting law abiding citizens' rights is both unconstitutional and will be ineffective.  

 

Secondly, no...we're not the only advanced country where this kind of thing happens.  We are, however, one of the only nations to have a Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. 

 

But worst of all is this statement at this time.  I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.  The Great Divider is determined to stir up as much unrest and discord as possible.  It's right out of Saul Alinsky's playbook.  

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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 190
    rubaiyatrubaiyat Posts: 277member

    It wasn't Obama who politicised this, in fact he skirted around the bleeding' obvious which is only too well documented in the massive preponderance of US incidents in the link you gave.

     

    It is you (totally) with your usual mean partisan nastiness and callous indifference to the victims of this hate attack.

     

    But then they were only black. The president is black too isn't he? Maybe there's a connection.

  • Reply 2 of 190
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 16,556member
    rubaiyat wrote: »
    It wasn't Obama who politicised this, in fact he skirted around the bleeding' obvious which is only too well documented in the massive preponderance of US incidents in the link you gave.

    It is you (totally) with your usual mean partisan nastiness and callous indifference to the victims of this hate attack.

    But then they were only black. The president is black too isn't he? Maybe there's a connection.

    Let me get this straight: Obama politicizes the tragedy by talking about gun control the day after the shooting, and I'm the one who's blamed for making it political? I'm the one...some guy you don't know on the Internet. Not the President of the United States, who has a long history of such things...ME! This guy!

    Oh, and I'm a racist. You really are sickening. Typical "tolerant" leftist.
  • Reply 3 of 190
    rubaiyatrubaiyat Posts: 277member

    Isn't it the way. A group of innocent churchgoers are slaughtered by some nutter who practically has the gun put in his hands by revolting extremist right wingers and all you feel sorry for is the poor gun. Somebody might take it away!

  • Reply 4 of 190
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 16,556member

    Reported.  

  • Reply 5 of 190
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 41,328member
    Originally Posted by rubaiyat View Post

    ...some nutter who practically has the gun put in his hands by revolting extremist right wingers...

     

    Geez, you really are mentally ill. I thought it was just ignorance before, but you’re legitimately detached from sanity.

  • Reply 6 of 190
    omegaomega Posts: 427member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

     

    not the only advanced country


     

    Have you looked at the list in detail?  The last ten entries are 8-2 in the favour of the USA. The two non USA attacks are Paris (Charlie Hebdo) and Kenya (which was a terror attack).  Chalk.  Cheese.

     

    If anything your list is a good reason for gun control because it shows you just don't get it. But if you are happy with American's killing American's then thumbs up to you.

  • Reply 7 of 190
    crowleycrowley Posts: 5,166member
    How has he politicised it, in any untoward fashion? It happened, it's a tragedy, and as with all tragedies that happened you should be looking at why they happened and what you can do about not making them happen again. That isn't controversial, that's sensible.

    None of his words are partisan or inflammatory, unless you're partisanly predisposed to be inflamed by anything Obama says.
  • Reply 8 of 190
    rubaiyatrubaiyat Posts: 277member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Omega View Post

     

     

    Have you looked at the list in detail?  The last ten entries are 8-2 in the favour of the USA. The two non USA attacks are Paris (Charlie Hebdo) and Kenya (which was a terror attack).  Chalk.  Cheese.

     

    If anything your list is a good reason for gun control because it shows you just don't get it. But if you are happy with American's killing American's then thumbs up to you.


     

    If you are critical of even the most trivial of things about America, you are instantly accused of hating America.

     

    But as I like to point out nobody hates Americans as much as other Americans. Which is why the incessant over the top flag hugging and constant displays of jingoism, it is a losing battle to try and bind a nation divided against itself.

     

    This is just another of countless examples of racial hatred bubbling up to the surface, aided by the insane attitude to lethal weapons.

  • Reply 9 of 190
    brbr Posts: 8,320member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Crowley View Post



    How has he politicised it, in any untoward fashion? It happened, it's a tragedy, and as with all tragedies that happened you should be looking at why they happened and what you can do about not making them happen again. That isn't controversial, that's sensible.



    None of his words are partisan or inflammatory, unless you're partisanly predisposed to be inflamed by anything Obama says.

    Exactly.  In fact, President Obama didn't go far enough by avoiding calling this tragedy what it truly was--domestic terrorism.  Any time someone says "oh, don't talk about that problem now...that's not polite to the victims," it sure seems like that someone just doesn't like what those solutions might entail.  

     

    Interestingly, the same people who hate the gun talk after gun-related tragedies were the people after 9/11 that wanted to stifle discussion against going to war--you know, because 'Murica.  Whether or not the solutions are what they want, they just can't handle anyone else disagreeing.

  • Reply 10 of 190
    sammi josammi jo Posts: 4,634member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

     

    http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-statement-on-charleston-shooting-2015-6

     

     

    First, he's wrong (totally) on gun rights and what would actually reduce gun violence. Beyond better background checks and better mental health services, passing additional laws restricting law abiding citizens' rights is both unconstitutional and will be ineffective.  

     

    Secondly, no...we're not the only advanced country where this kind of thing happens.  We are, however, one of the only nations to have a Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. 

     

    But worst of all is this statement at this time.  I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.  The Great Divider is determined to stir up as much unrest and discord as possible.  It's right out of Saul Alinsky's playbook.  


     

    How do we do both the following two things at the same time?

     

    1. Keeling guns away from criminals, terrorists, unstable people (like this kid), and folks who are clearly unqualified to handle a firearm. I am sure that regardless of one's position on guns, most of us don't want to see more thugs and crazies armed to the teeth, at loose in society.....   while

     

    2. Maintaining the integrity of the Second Amendment, and the people's right to bear arms.

     

    No government dares mess with the 2nd Amendment - it would be political suicide. Secondly, no government wants to see shooting incidents skyrocketing on their watch - because people are going to demand something be done to halt the trend... as is happening right now.

     

    This seems like an intractable problem. 

     

    :(

  • Reply 11 of 190
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,357member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rubaiyat View Post

     

    It wasn't Obama who politicised this, in fact he skirted around the bleeding' obvious which is only too well documented in the massive preponderance of US incidents in the link you gave.

     

    It is you (totally) with your usual mean partisan nastiness and callous indifference to the victims of this hate attack.

     

    But then they were only black. The president is black too isn't he? Maybe there's a connection.


     

    Obama clearly used this for political attacks and he has done so in the past with other similar incidents. He doesn't call for gun control when this is gang related homicides which are 80% of all gun deaths every year. He doesn't call for gun control in these instances because the massive majority of these deaths are African-American deaths, often caused by other African-Americans in blue state urban zones where there is gun control and where the income disparity happens to be highest as well.

     

    People don't want to point out the problem when it is in their own backyard. The massive majority of gun murders are in a few high density urban centers. The top three are Los Angeles, Chicago and New York.

     

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rubaiyat View Post

     

    Isn't it the way. A group of innocent churchgoers are slaughtered by some nutter who practically has the gun put in his hands by revolting extremist right wingers and all you feel sorry for is the poor gun. Somebody might take it away!


     

    What needs to be taken away are the anti-depressants and other similar drugs that are strongly linked to all these shooting.

     

    When we have drunk drivers, we don't blame the cars, we blame the people drinking and perhaps blame the alcohol. We don't blame the car.

     

    Likewise when someone is declared mentally ill, there needs to be something done. Right now the OPPOSITE is being done. As a school teacher I can tell you that if a student is being violent and mentally unstable little is done about it. If he or she is of a certain ethnic persuasion they won't even suspend and will never expel such a student. We are talking about students who make threats, students who fight and students who are caught with minor weapons at or around school grounds. People shouldn't be shocked when the other shoe drops when a person gets to act this way for so long with nothing done.

     

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Crowley View Post



    How has he politicised it, in any untoward fashion? It happened, it's a tragedy, and as with all tragedies that happened you should be looking at why they happened and what you can do about not making them happen again. That isn't controversial, that's sensible.



    None of his words are partisan or inflammatory, unless you're partisanly predisposed to be inflamed by anything Obama says.


     

    Wrong. President Obama has not looked at the root causes. He hasn't convened a commission or asked for recommendations or studied the matter. He doesn't make the same recommendations or any recommendations at all for the thousands of gang deaths that occur yearly.

     

    http://homicides.suntimes.com/

     

    There is a list, updated almost daily that draws no comments, no study, no programs, no recommendations and no concern.

     

    When something needs to be done, it can involve something other than removal of rights. Can you think of another problem where the solution is removal of rights?

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BR View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Crowley View Post



    How has he politicised it, in any untoward fashion? It happened, it's a tragedy, and as with all tragedies that happened you should be looking at why they happened and what you can do about not making them happen again. That isn't controversial, that's sensible.



    None of his words are partisan or inflammatory, unless you're partisanly predisposed to be inflamed by anything Obama says.

    Exactly.  In fact, President Obama didn't go far enough by avoiding calling this tragedy what it truly was--domestic terrorism.  Any time someone says "oh, don't talk about that problem now...that's not polite to the victims," it sure seems like that someone just doesn't like what those solutions might entail.  

     

    Interestingly, the same people who hate the gun talk after gun-related tragedies were the people after 9/11 that wanted to stifle discussion against going to war--you know, because 'Murica.  Whether or not the solutions are what they want, they just can't handle anyone else disagreeing.


     

     

    Call it domestic terrorism. Then what do we call the unending and countless gang deaths that occur daily in the United States? There are thousands of them a year.

     

    Again show me another problem where the solution is take away the rights.

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

     

    http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-statement-on-charleston-shooting-2015-6

     

     

    First, he's wrong (totally) on gun rights and what would actually reduce gun violence. Beyond better background checks and better mental health services, passing additional laws restricting law abiding citizens' rights is both unconstitutional and will be ineffective.  

     

    Secondly, no...we're not the only advanced country where this kind of thing happens.  We are, however, one of the only nations to have a Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. 

     

    But worst of all is this statement at this time.  I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.  The Great Divider is determined to stir up as much unrest and discord as possible.  It's right out of Saul Alinsky's playbook.  


     

    How do we do both the following two things at the same time?

     

    1. Keeling guns away from criminals, terrorists, unstable people (like this kid), and folks who are clearly unqualified to handle a firearm. I am sure that regardless of one's position on guns, most of us don't want to see more thugs and crazies armed to the teeth, at loose in society.....   while

     

    2. Maintaining the integrity of the Second Amendment, and the people's right to bear arms.

     

    No government dares mess with the 2nd Amendment - it would be political suicide. Secondly, no government wants to see shooting incidents skyrocketing on their watch - because people are going to demand something be done to halt the trend... as is happening right now.

     

    This seems like an intractable problem. 

     

    :(


     

    This very unstable kid is more the outlier than the real problem. We will never be able to hit the smaller and harder aspects of the problem if we can't even address the low hanging fruit aka the 20% that equals 80% of the problem.

     

    The reason that isn't addressed? Pretty simple. It is an urban problem. It is a family-form problem. It is a problem where government programs already exist and actually end up feeding the problem. It is a problem that resides almost exclusively in blue states and in blue cities run by Democratic mayors. It is also a problem where the leadership often resembles the people having the problems and thus there is no political gain and no buck to pass.

  • Reply 12 of 190
    rubaiyatrubaiyat Posts: 277member



    The usual right wing rubbish, because they are all bound into together with the "They're out to get us, and we know who they are, one look and we know".

     

    Obama hasn't differentiated between gang or any other shootings, and you are attempting to slur what he says by saying so. You are trying to imply that at best he has a double standard and at worst he is all for gun violence if it is "gang" (i.e. black/latino) violence. He is against gun violence of any kind, and the fact that the gun manufacturers along with their easily manipulated supporters, who are only a minority even in the States, block every attempt to licence or even vet gun owners. So the mentally unstable (just an excuse, this guy was quite deliberate in his actions) can buy the weapon as readily as he buys chewing gum.

     

    America is never collectively rational at the best of times, and wears jingoism, paranoia and ignorance as its tricolour, locked in a personal arms race. Everyone trying to out gun everyone else. In the mad theory you are all Clint Eastwoods, fast on the draw, cool and born sharpshooters under pressure.

     

    What happened to the right to bear nuclear arms or nerve gas, or biological weapons. Logically if you all wandered around in a state of perpetual terror of the next man, who's having a bad day, you would be all nice to each other. Wasn't my observation of what was going on when I was in the States. I just saw, a not too repressed racism. Like the civil war has been going through a low level phoney war waiting for the next outbreak.

     

    Your police are not public servants they are a menacing presence. Certainly black people who are an unending target know exactly what that feels like, and as the police escalate their weaponry to war grade equipment, ex Iraq, the simmering trigger happy environment goes a little closer to the boil.

     

    The gun manufacturers who are behind all the minority blocking of reform are not out to protect you, they appreciate that the "gang" or any of the random violent individuals are not just their best customers, but drive sales like nobody else can, so are sacrosanct. Not to be touched under any circumstance. 

     

    Same deal as the cigarette companies, the petrochemical companies, the automotive industry, the pharmaceutical companies. This is all about the money, and stuff the community or individual who questions any of it.

  • Reply 13 of 190
    rubaiyatrubaiyat Posts: 277member

    I must say I was surprised you claim you are a school teacher.

     

    This is the internet so we don't know what to believe, especially considering your other posts e.g.:

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

     

     

    Increasingly intense hurricanes? How about no hurricanes making landfall for a decade in the U.S. I can post links to lists of failed predictions. You can excuse them or kill the messenger or what have you.

     


     

    If you are in fact a teacher, the evidence would seem you are very much part of the problem.
  • Reply 14 of 190
    sammi josammi jo Posts: 4,634member

    According to Rick Perry, the mass shooting was "an accident". (!) Does he think that the gun went off 9 or more times, in quick succession, as a result of mechanical failure? Or what?

     

    Uh, Trumptman - can you justify or explain Perry's statement? I'm struggling with it, kind of....  (!)

  • Reply 15 of 190
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,219member
    sammi jo wrote: »
    According to Rick Perry, the mass shooting was "an accident". (!) Does he think that the gun went off 9 or more times, in quick succession, as a result of mechanical failure? Or what?

    Uh, Trumptman - can you justify or explain Perry's statement? I'm struggling with it, kind of....  (!)

    Do not forget that each "accident victim" was shot multiple times. Roof "accidentally" reloaded his gun several times before he left the church.
  • Reply 16 of 190
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,357member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rubaiyat View Post

     



    The usual right wing rubbish, because they are all bound into together with the "They're out to get us, and we know who they are, one look and we know".


     

    Is that what you tell yourself when you don't want to address or even think about valid points that are being made? Call it rubbish, dismiss the messenger with bad motive and declare yourself right in a self-created vacuum.

     

    Quote:


     Obama hasn't differentiated between gang or any other shootings, and you are attempting to slur what he says by saying so. You are trying to imply that at best he has a double standard and at worst he is all for gun violence if it is "gang" (i.e. black/latino) violence. He is against gun violence of any kind, and the fact that the gun manufacturers along with their easily manipulated supporters, who are only a minority even in the States, block every attempt to licence or even vet gun owners. So the mentally unstable (just an excuse, this guy was quite deliberate in his actions) can buy the weapon as readily as he buys chewing gum.


     

    Differentiate would presume he has addressed the point. He hasn't addressed gang gun use in any meaningful manner. You might have a quote you can pull from some speech but the man has been elected for 6+ years. It hasn't been addressed. Are there people FOR gun violence? This reasoning is laughable. It's like saying people who want their right to free speech are engaging in hate speech. What is even more hilarious is you dismiss my post declaring it is rubbish like "they are out to get us" and then drone on about a conspiracy involving gun manufacturers, and a small minority of easily manipulated (read stupid) supporters who somehow magically defeat all the other corporations, the lawmakers, the smart people who can't be easily manipulated and of course the majority.

     

    That is quite the CONSPIRACY you have there of people OUT TO GET YOU.

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rubaiyat View Post

     

    I must say I was surprised you claim you are a school teacher.

     

    This is the internet so we don't know what to believe, especially considering your other posts e.g.:

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

     

     

    Increasingly intense hurricanes? How about no hurricanes making landfall for a decade in the U.S. I can post links to lists of failed predictions. You can excuse them or kill the messenger or what have you.

     


     

    If you are in fact a teacher, the evidence would seem you are very much part of the problem.


     

    Classic ad-hom. Please try harder.

  • Reply 17 of 190
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,357member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

     

    According to Rick Perry, the mass shooting was "an accident". (!) Does he think that the gun went off 9 or more times, in quick succession, as a result of mechanical failure? Or what?

     

    Uh, Trumptman - can you justify or explain Perry's statement? I'm struggling with it, kind of....  (!)


     

    Did you not read your own link?

     

    Addressing Wednesday's massacre at a South Carolina church, former Texas governor Rick Perry referred to it as an "accident." His campaign quickly clarified that he meant "incident," but not before the apparent slip of the tongue sparked a social media backlash, inviting inevitable comparisons to the so-called "oops" moment that defined Perry's last bid for the White House.

     

    All Democratic gaffes including knowing we have 57 states are allowed. All Republican gaffes including made up ones are proof they are all evil and idiots.

  • Reply 18 of 190
    rubaiyatrubaiyat Posts: 277member

    I pointed out your original quote in the other forum because it shows a clear lack of either knowledge, or even wanting to know, and a wilful disinterest in knowing if it at all clashes with your massive prejudices.

     

    America has so many problems which feed off each other, that it is hard to know which causes which but certainly I would put down the ignorance of the world, even the smaller part it occupies, and the refusal to learn from anyone else, due to national hubris as probably the core problem of them all.

     

    America is the stand out champion of gun violence amongst first world nations, you are only trumped by other, 3rd world, nations where there are also far too many guns and the notion that they are the solution to everything. Don't like someone, shoot them, don't like something shoot someone, having a bad day shoot someone. Why? Because you have guns. Guns in your supermarkets, guns in your bathrooms, guns in bedrooms, guns in your schools, churches, but mostly guns in your head.

     

    You also have the notion that the government is your enemy and you to need arm yourself against your own representative government! Fostered by the unresolved civil war conflict that stemmed from using those guns to enslave a large part of the population and after the civil war to keep them in crypto slavery.

     

    Just as the slave owners used violence as the answer to criticism of slavery, even attacking fellow members of Congress, they have maintained violence as the answer to criticism of everything else they hold dear since. It is hard to think of any of your political victims of gun violence or even other forms of violence who weren't liberals of one description or another, with a right wing perpetrator. Except for Reagan, who was not killed.

     

    It is hard to know how to debate people whose answer to lead poisoning is more lead.

  • Reply 19 of 190
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 26,173member
    sammi jo wrote: »
    How do we do both the following two things at the same time?

    1. Keeling guns away from criminals, terrorists, unstable people (like this kid), and folks who are clearly unqualified to handle a firearm. I am sure that regardless of one's position on guns, most of us don't want to see more thugs and crazies armed to the teeth, at loose in society.....   while

    2. Maintaining the integrity of the Second Amendment, and the people's right to bear arms.

    No government dares mess with the 2nd Amendment - it would be political suicide. Secondly, no government wants to see shooting incidents skyrocketing on their watch - because people are going to demand something be done to halt the trend... as is happening right now.

    This seems like an intractable problem. 

    :(

    It's not an intractable problem. It's a matter for the states and the people to decide. End of story. The Constitution restricts the Federal government from doing anything with regard to this issue.
  • Reply 20 of 190
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,357member

    Ruby you appear to be a classic internet troll. Please up your game if you want future responses.

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rubaiyat View Post

     

    I pointed out your original quote in the other forum because it shows a clear lack of either knowledge, or even wanting to know, and a wilful disinterest in knowing if it at all clashes with your massive prejudices.


     

    I can point to articles like this which clearly are the work of an evil minority of self-reinforcing, delusion right-wingers who wish the planet harm because...Merica or some crap like that.

     

    Your statement is a classic ad-hom attack. It is a logical fallacy. I suspect much of your reading and video enjoyment starts with titles like "Jon Steward Eviscerates _________" or "Colbert mocks _______________." Those two very rich clowns have taught an entire generation of progressives that mocking, jeering and rolling your eyes is critical thinking. You need to do and be better than that to make your point.

     

    Quote:


     America has so many problems which feed off each other, that it is hard to know which causes which but certainly I would put down the ignorance of the world, even the smaller part it occupies, and the refusal to learn from anyone else, due to national hubris as probably the core problem of them all.


     

    Clearly another country should lead the way per your reasoning. They just don't because of course their problems which also feed off each other lead to much more intractable problems. The EU is desperately trying to hold itself together. The Grexit is getting ready to happen because the socialists there can't borrow more of other people's money to spend. Spain, Italy and to some degree France isn't much better off. Germany is doing well but the demographics there and throughout most of the continent are terrible in terms of continuing a culture or even really a country. I could go on.

     

    China has had ghost statistics for ages now. Nothing they report is considered legitimate. They are going to be Japan 2.0 very soon.

     

    The U.S. is like the skinniest fat kid in the room. We may not be in great shape but the others aren't better off.

     

    Quote:


     America is the stand out champion of gun violence amongst first world nations, you are only trumped by other, 3rd world, nations where there are also far too many guns and the notion that they are the solution to everything. Don't like someone, shoot them, don't like something shoot someone, having a bad day shoot someone. Why? Because you have guns. Guns in your supermarkets, guns in your bathrooms, guns in bedrooms, guns in your schools, churches, but mostly guns in your head.

     

    You also have the notion that the government is your enemy and you to need arm yourself against your own representative government! Fostered by the unresolved civil war conflict that stemmed from using those guns to enslave a large part of the population and after the civil war to keep them in crypto slavery.



     

    America is authentic in how it reports numbers. Likewise you have to consider the starting and end points. The United States is a multiethnic country and is trying to be first and best in the world in terms of bringing that about. The Euro monocultures might have lower crime but they also don't breed anymore. They are dying out. The rapid immigration occurring is not problem free.

     

    What's funny in reading your statement though is just how cartoonish it happens to be. It's like you are calling the entire United State a cowboy western or something of that nature.

     

    Quote:


     It is hard to know how to debate people whose answer to lead poisoning is more lead.


     

    Clearly this isn't a debate. You are arguing with the caricatures, conspiracies and other assorted stereotypes in your head and have resolved to defeat them with mockery, and ridicule.

     

    Have a nice day!

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