can Macs (running MacOS or OSX) be exploited over a dialup?
Maybe this has been answered before, but is it possible for someone to initiate programs and see/manipulate/send to trash files on your HD from over a dialup internet connection (aside from running software specifically made to do this) like they can do in Windows? Is it just a matter of no one would bother to try to hack a Mac (can they tell if a terminal on the other end of a phone line is a Windows or a Mac?), or it just cannot be done? I know my computer can be crashed if you send it some bad java imbedded on a webpage, but are there exploits that can be passed to a Mac just by loading up a web page?
Comments
<strong>Maybe this has been answered before, but is it possible for someone to initiate programs and see/manipulate/send to trash files on your HD from over a dialup internet connection (aside from running software specifically made to do this) like they can do in Windows?</strong><hr></blockquote>
they? if your computer is compromised then yes anything is possible.
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Is it just a matter of no one would bother to try to hack a Mac (can they tell if a terminal on the other end of a phone line is a Windows or a Mac?), or it just cannot be done?
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well of course you can tell what kind of computer is on the other end - but there's no magical hack button, of course your computer can be compromised but as is out of the box with a firewall you're fairly well protected from a remote attack
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I know my computer can be crashed if you send it some bad java imbedded on a webpage, but are there exploits that can be passed to a Mac just by loading up a web page?</strong><hr></blockquote>
none that i know of, however these exploits are browser based - i.e. you'll get them with IE
[ 05-26-2002: Message edited by: janitor ]</p>
<strong>you'll get them with IE
This gets to the cruxt to my question. Are there Mac equivalents to these very things, or would the exploits be completely different between different platforms? What about those executables that turn your machine into a spam zombie? Can this be done to a Mac in a similar manner?
How similar to VBScript is AppleScript? At all?
Seems to be a question that no one really cares to think about.
<strong>
This gets to the cruxt to my question. Are there Mac equivalents to these very things, or would the exploits be completely different between different platforms? What about those executables that turn your machine into a spam zombie? Can this be done to a Mac in a similar manner?</strong><hr></blockquote>
yes. if someone cares to, weedo ported the original smurf over from unix for dos attacks - essentialy a zombied machine, that was years ago though, and it was something you executed yourself. you have to realize that you're running unix, haven't you noticed the security updates? some were for IE, and some were for the version of ssh running in os x; there are now many components of os x not controlled by apple directly working in the background - if that software has holes it's up to apple to get on it and release fixes.
honestly, you should worry more about the next itunes update wipeing your drives than being hacked - if security really is a major concern for you then you should look into some serious hardware, or getting off the internet
1) Mail doesn't auto-execute attachments;
2) The double-extension trick doesn't work, and;
2) double-clicking an AppleScript document doesn't execute it; it opens it in Script Editor, where the code is right there for all to see.
Now, it's true that AppleScript is not foolproof. The AS team has admitted that the launch-in-Script-Editor feature is pretty much the only security measure taken, and it doesn't handle all cases. They're working on security. In the meantime, despite the fact that in theory a hostile AppleScript could wipe files, or turn your machine into a DDOS or spamming zombie, or any number of other things, there are a few safeguards in the way that make it a much less likely vector than, say, Word macro viruses.
The mere fact that Outlook and Word auto-execute .VBS and similar files, as a "feature," is what makes them so popular and so effective as virus vectors. The last time Apple offered a similar feature, we were promptly afflicted with the QuickTime autostart worm.
[ 05-26-2002: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>
your cell phone, gsm phone, wireless and lan ethernet can be monitored too - there is no security for an active mind.
*However, a vulnerability is the Word macro virus. These are cross platform and can come in any Word document. My general philosophy is to presume that any Word file given to me by anyone could have one. That's why I avoid Word as much as possible. If you use a lot of Word files and exchange them with others, get virus protection.
Most of the exploits around come in the form of Windows trojan horses and Windows filesharing exploits. (In the infinite stupidity or purposeful malfeasance of MS, WAN Windows filesharing is automatically turned on and very easily hacked.)
As to Internet vulnerability, the Mac has always been pretty secure out of the box, although nothing is absolute. Classic Mac OS wasn't designed with the Internet in mind, rather, it was bolted on, so there are few exploits that can be used against it. If security is very important, one can run a firewall such as Norton Personal Firewall or NetBarrier.
OS X is based on a pretty secure foundation, but, again, nothing is absolute. Don't run FTP or Remote Login (telnet) services on your box if you care about security, because these are inherently insecure. A previous poster stated that OS X relies on a number of technologies outside Apple's control. That's not all that true - most all of Darwin (the underlying core of OS X) is in Apple's control. The things not handled directly by Apple, such as SSH, are pretty stable and secure, so one shouldn't worry all that much in that regard. A firewall (either hardware or software based) is a good idea for the security conscious. Remember there is a built-in firewall in OS X; in addition to free apps currently available, Jaguar will provide built-in graphical configuration of that tool.
The Mac is not military-grade secure, but it is much better off than Windows. That's due to both good engineering and relative platform obscurity. Don't run needless services; don't use MS when possible; do use a firewall; perhaps use virus protection.
[ 05-28-2002: Message edited by: Big Mac ]</p>
[ 05-28-2002: Message edited by: LowB-ing ]</p>
1. You unknowingly download and run the malicious code yourself. Either from the net or from removable media, like cd-rom. Who do you trust?
Protection: anti-virus software
2 By opening an "evil" webpage that exploits some vulnerability in your browser.
Protection: updated browser, anti-virus s/w and a firewall _might_ also do you some good.
3 By mail, through an attatchment that exploits some vulnerability in your mail client. Beware of outlook.
Protection:anti-virus s/w, webmail
4. Someone scans your part of the net (using special, automatic tools) for some vulnerability that your system has (actually, he scans for ports that suggest the vuln _might_ be there). this is much harder for the cracker if you're on dialup, cause you're not connected for too long at a time, and you usually get a new IP every time you reconnect. This means the cracker won't see you unless you're online when the scan is done. He also needs to start working on you right away, instead of saving your IP for later (and you'll probably be one of many on his results list so this is a bit unlkely). He also has to work fast, and he probably won't get a second shot at you. It can still be done, though, and in fact it has been! but its not common. Broadband connections and the likes, are much more vulnerable in this respect. The cracker also needs to either be good at the OS in question and/or have a ready made exploit script/program, most of which attack windows. So chances are he'll give up if it's not a wintel, but he might persue a unix box, including OSX.
Protection: firewall, disable all remote control services (think they're off by default in OSX, and 9 shouldn't have any unless you installed them. go check) like rlogin (not safe). ssh is a bit better (for the moment!), but if you don't need it...
a firewall wont do you one bit of good unless it's configured. programs like brick wall helps you configure the built in fw in OSX. for 9, you need a separate fw.
5. Stolen passwords, only if you have some remote control service active. the cracker lets a "sniffer" program listen to all traffic to/from your IP adress. if he overhears a password, he can simply log in with it. ssh is encrypted to make this harder (rlogin is not AFAIK). not likely to happen on a dialup either.
There's very little malicious code written for OS9, wich is fortunate since it's not a very secure system. Most stuff done for unix will probably affect OSX though, if it gets in, wich it hopefully won't, since X is failry secure. 99% is for windows users, but you might unknowingly pass stuff on to them without getting "symptoms" on your system. this is especially true of macros. On your system they might only be able to damage files asociated with the app they were written for, or none at all. Pass the wrong document on to your windows using friend, and he gets his whole system nuked.
Trojans have to be written for your type of system in order to work. Good for macusers
To answer your question:
If you worry about getting your mac cracked over the dialup, not to damn likely (but never say never...). However, there are other ways to "aquire" trojans, like downloading them. Then it doesn't really matter what type of connection you use.
[ 05-28-2002: Message edited by: LowB-ing ]</p>
So that really makes me wonder because I do tend to leave my computer online for hours on end on the weekends, even though I am not using it. So I wonder if that is long enough for someone to crack my computer (or do they eventually realize it's a Mac and just move on). So when you say MacOS9 is not exactly secure, does that mean there are a half-dozen ports just waiting to be violated like in Windows or not quite the same situation?
[ 05-29-2002: Message edited by: Randycat99 ]</p>
<strong>Thanks for all of the effort to type that info. Much appreciated!
So that really makes me wonder because I do tend to leave my computer online for hours on end on the weekends, even though I am not using it. So I wonder if that is long enough for someone to crack my computer (or do they eventually realize it's a Mac and just move on). So when you say MacOS9 is not exactly secure, does that mean there are a half-dozen ports just waiting to be violated like in Windows or not quite the same situation?
[ 05-29-2002: Message edited by: Randycat99 ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, OS 9 is much more secure out of the box than Windows. It's not infallible; as I said before, macro viruses are the main thing to think about if you use Word.
If you would like to see what ports you have open, an easy way to do so is to request a free probe from <a href="http://www.dslreports.com/"; target="_blank">DSL Reports.</a> Click on the DSLR Tools link and then look for "Port Scan." It may report that you have some ports listening, but you shouldn't have any open ports. If you want to close everything up, you can get one of the aforementioned firewall tools.
[ 05-29-2002: Message edited by: Big Mac ]</p>