Apple's 'Project Titan' car faces manufacturing roadblocks, could necessitate partnership
With an internal goal of 2020 to begin building its own car, Apple faces a number of roadblocks in automotive manufacturing, which could lead it to partnering with another company in its vehicular venture, a source has indicated to AppleInsider.
Apple's undeveloped 43-acre plot in San Jose (red) sits across from the 101 Tech campus (blue), where it leases 300,000 square-feet of office space.
A person with knowledge of Apple's secretive "Project Titan" revealed to AppleInsider this week that the company is currently facing problems as it plans out a manufacturing site for the anticipated "Apple Car." They said the company's timeframe, in which it would like to begin manufacturing within five years, may result in Apple seeking out a partnership with another, already-established player in the automotive space.
Specifically, it was said that Apple is apparently eyeing new property it purchased in San Jose last month as a potential site for "Project Titan" development, and perhaps even eventual assembly. The company paid $138 million for a 43-acre building plot currently featuring nearly 2 million square feet of office space.
It was also suggested that the design and technology behind "Project Titan" remain very much in flux, with Apple reportedly still considering using BMW's i3 as the basis for its project. Apple and BMW have held talks about a potential partnership, though it's been said that the two parties are not close to an agreement.
Apple is said to have been particularly impressed that BMW "abandoned traditional approaches to car making" in developing the i3. Apple's top brass apparently indicated they are interested in taking a similar, fresh approach to the automobile with their own initiative.
BMW's i3 commuter car.
The new San Jose property owned by Apple certainly has the space for an automotive research facility, though the company's intent with the site has not yet been publicly revealed. Records with the City of San Jose show that industrial park planned development permits for the land are inactive, suggesting Apple has not yet pulled any such permits.
Rumors have persisted throughout 2015 suggesting that an "Apple Car" is the Cupertino company's next major new product category. It's been speculated that Apple is looking to develop a self-driving automobile to compete with other projects currently in the works from traditional automakers, as well as Tesla, Google, and even Uber.
AppleInsider exclusively reported earlier this week that Apple has been poaching Tesla workers to push its "Project Titan" forward. The hiring has apparently been so extensive that it has negatively affected Tesla's own internal product development.
For now, well before manufacturing could begin, Apple is said to be working on its project largely at a secretive facility in Sunnyvale, Calif., known by the code-name "SG5." AppleInsider uncovered evidence earlier this year suggesting that a shell company known as SixtyEight Research may be a cover for Apple to help conceal its true operations at the Sunnyvale garage.
Apple's undeveloped 43-acre plot in San Jose (red) sits across from the 101 Tech campus (blue), where it leases 300,000 square-feet of office space.
A person with knowledge of Apple's secretive "Project Titan" revealed to AppleInsider this week that the company is currently facing problems as it plans out a manufacturing site for the anticipated "Apple Car." They said the company's timeframe, in which it would like to begin manufacturing within five years, may result in Apple seeking out a partnership with another, already-established player in the automotive space.
Specifically, it was said that Apple is apparently eyeing new property it purchased in San Jose last month as a potential site for "Project Titan" development, and perhaps even eventual assembly. The company paid $138 million for a 43-acre building plot currently featuring nearly 2 million square feet of office space.
It was also suggested that the design and technology behind "Project Titan" remain very much in flux, with Apple reportedly still considering using BMW's i3 as the basis for its project. Apple and BMW have held talks about a potential partnership, though it's been said that the two parties are not close to an agreement.
Apple is said to have been particularly impressed that BMW "abandoned traditional approaches to car making" in developing the i3. Apple's top brass apparently indicated they are interested in taking a similar, fresh approach to the automobile with their own initiative.
BMW's i3 commuter car.
The new San Jose property owned by Apple certainly has the space for an automotive research facility, though the company's intent with the site has not yet been publicly revealed. Records with the City of San Jose show that industrial park planned development permits for the land are inactive, suggesting Apple has not yet pulled any such permits.
Rumors have persisted throughout 2015 suggesting that an "Apple Car" is the Cupertino company's next major new product category. It's been speculated that Apple is looking to develop a self-driving automobile to compete with other projects currently in the works from traditional automakers, as well as Tesla, Google, and even Uber.
AppleInsider exclusively reported earlier this week that Apple has been poaching Tesla workers to push its "Project Titan" forward. The hiring has apparently been so extensive that it has negatively affected Tesla's own internal product development.
For now, well before manufacturing could begin, Apple is said to be working on its project largely at a secretive facility in Sunnyvale, Calif., known by the code-name "SG5." AppleInsider uncovered evidence earlier this year suggesting that a shell company known as SixtyEight Research may be a cover for Apple to help conceal its true operations at the Sunnyvale garage.
Comments
Guess it's a good piece of writing.. on a something thats speculative.
Basic car startup assembly plant is $300-$600 million.. and thats w/o research into new tech.. Within 5 years? meh.. So we have a speculative vehicle with even more speculative delays that is not even in prototype yet? umm..
Guess it's a good piece of writing.. on a something thats speculative.
Basic car startup assembly plant cost is (in your mind) an archaic number based on how existing car manufacturers do things. Totally inefficient in my opinion. If Apple does move this direction (still nothing confirmed by Apple) then they will totally change the way cars are built. AND, how does anyone know that Apple doesn't have something in prototype yet?
I'm hoping for a liquid metal Apple Car with sapphire windows!!
:-)
Hasn't Tesla got a state-of-the-art factory?
They (Tesla) are basically toast when the classic car manufacturers release their Human Controlled Full Electric Cars at the turn of this decade. A partnership with Apple would be a smart 'move' for both.
Basic car startup assembly plant cost is (in your mind) an archaic number based on how existing car manufacturers do things. Totally inefficient in my opinion. If Apple does move this direction (still nothing confirmed by Apple) then they will totally change the way cars are built. AND, how does anyone know that Apple doesn't have something in prototype yet?
Right, so Apple won't use any of the tooling and jigs and conveyor systems that factories need. Plus being in California, they just ignore the need for air pollution permits for something as simple as using glue. (This is the state that regulates emissions from hair gel) They can shake things up by using dollar a day Chinese labor to carry and assemble the car by hand.
Basic car startup assembly plant cost is (in your mind) an archaic number based on how existing car manufacturers do things. Totally inefficient in my opinion. If Apple does move this direction (still nothing confirmed by Apple) then they will totally change the way cars are built. AND, how does anyone know that Apple doesn't have something in prototype yet?
I don't think Apple, as good as they are, will totally redefine how cars are made. Modern assembly lines for vehicles are probably quite similar to how Tim Cook manages supply chains for components. More likely they'll just use TPS (Toyota Production System) which is a highly refined just-in-time manufacturing process. An interesting fact is that the CEO of Hyundai did his thesis on the TPS. Later he adopted those methods at Hyundai. And look at Hyundai cars today vs their early years. Turned that company completely around.
I think what Apple will bring to cars is not so much a new way to build them, but a new way to interact with them and use them. Apple is obsessed with user experience, after all, and there's a LOT of room for improvement for that in automotive. That and they'll bring some amazing style I bet.
Hasn't Tesla got a state-of-the-art factory?
They (Tesla) are basically toast when the classic car manufacturers release their Human Controlled Full Electric Cars at the turn of this decade. A partnership with Apple would be a smart 'move' for both.
Tesla will need to do something. Nothing they have in their cars is proprietary and none of their tech is new. Any car company could build a Model S in short order if they wanted. They're happy right now to let Tesla spend money getting consumers used to the idea of electric vehicles and when the market (and battery technology) is ripe they'll jump in. Tesla will have nothing to separate them from the rest, except for being the first. And Tesla doesn't have nearly as much experience in the other 75% of the vehicle (that's not the powertrain) as other manufacturers.
This is why I love this site. So wonderful to be able to construct one's own reality (with a group of like-minded people) and live in it. 2020, he we come!
What gave Tesla a head start was their ability to buy the mothballed NUMMI factory in California for a song. I don't think there are any more like that available. Starting from scratch in this business won't be easy, especially as Apple has not had a great deal of direct manufacturing experience in the past decade (everything has been outsourced to the Foxconns of the world). Yes, they will most definitely need a partnership.
May I suggest Jaguar/Land Rover as Apple's potential partner? The company today is not what people think it is. The styling, quality, engineering, and marketing are quite remarkable compared to the JLR of yore. (In fact, I am pretty much moving in the direction of a 2016 XF as my next car, although there is some hesitancy because I am not sure if it has CarPlay yet). Moreover, given its relatively small size (~450,000 cars), Apple will perhaps find a more willing and flexible partner in JLR.
I don't see the appeal of a vehicle to Apple. If they didn't want to build a full blown TV because of the thin margins I wouldn't think they'd be comfortable building a car.
100% of projects have things happening every day that push things forward; and things every day that are obstacles to overcome. There are always plans and goals that shift.
So you can always say "faces roadblocks" about any effort.
5 years to manufacturing? Sounds very fast, even for first prototypes! If that plan is real, and doesn't shift, then obviously there must be tons of challenges to face. Roadblocks. I mean roadblocks.
Apple's undeveloped 43-acre plot in San Jose (red) sits across from the 101 Tech campus (blue), where it leases 300,000 square-feet of office space.
... it was said that Apple is apparently eyeing new property it purchased in San Jose last month as a potential site for "Project Titan" development, and perhaps even eventual assembly. The company paid $138 million for a 43-acre building plot currently featuring nearly 2 million square feet of office space.
Located conveniently just 20 minutes south of the Telsa factory...
Luxury cars are not low-margin.
Xioami makes a phone that is a ripoff of Apple's iPhone, yet Chinese customers continue to buy the iPhone. Why do you think that is?
Hubba-hubba!
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/14/porsche-mission-e-concept-tesla-model-s-competitor/
The thing that still hurts with electrics is the range and the charging time. A person in a rush won't want to spend 15 minutes recharging.
Hubba-hubba!
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/14/porsche-mission-e-concept-tesla-model-s-competitor/
The thing that still hurts with electrics is the range and the charging time. A person in a rush won't want to spend 15 minutes recharging.
Nice, but a tad over-styled. Utterly lacks subtlety. And, I think it'll end up costing $200,000.
This all feels like a bad idea to me. It's just a gut feeling, but it's such a low margin business, and seems so distant from core competencies and ecosystem market advantages that their computer products benefit from. I will be the first to celebrate if they prove me wrong, though.
Concur. I believe Apple feels that it has something to contribute to this large consumer market, but like you, I have a gut feeling a whole car isn't their current focus. Even if a whole car was under consideration, it would be a huge departure from prior behavior for them to produce anything other than an upper-high end product, certainly not under the $100k mark.