EU will order Ireland to collect over $1B in back taxes from Apple - report

Posted:
in General Discussion
On Tuesday the European Commission will find against Ireland's tax arrangements with Apple, and ask the country to collect over 1 billion euros ($1.119 billion) in back taxes, a report claimed on Monday.




In fact the Commission will simply make a recommendation on the total it expects to be collected, leaving the Irish government to calculate the exact amount, one of two sources elaborated to CNBC. Some analyst estimates previously suggested that Apple could owe upwards of $8 billion.

The E.U. has been probing Apple's Irish tax arrangements since 2013, suggesting that the government extended preferential treatment -- and hence illegal state aid, under E.U. rules -- in order to attract the company's jobs and money. Exploiting various loopholes, the company managed to lower its tax rate on billions in international revenue to just 2 percent, far removed from the 12.5 percent it would usually owe.

Both Apple and the Irish government have denied any wrongdoing and promised to fight any unfavorable ruling, but precendent is not on their side. The Commission has already issued similar findings against the Netherlands and Luxembourg, for their respective tax deals with Starbucks and Fiat Chrysler.

The potential size of the Irish ruling has led Apple CEO Tim Cook and even U.S. Treasury Secretary Jack Lew to put pressure on the Commission. Last week, for instance, a white paper ordered by Lew claimed that the E.U.'s competition directorate is turning into a "supranational tax authority," and undermining "tax certainty."
«13456

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 102
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member
    Screw those new jobs that Apple was planning in that country!

    Apple should take its business elsewhere, there are plenty of other places to choose!


    equality72521
  • Reply 2 of 102
    singularitysingularity Posts: 1,328member
    apple ][ said:
    Screw those new jobs that Apple was planning in that country!

    Apple should take its business elsewhere, there are plenty of other places to choose!


    So where in the EU should they go? They still need an eu Base and would still have to pay the tax.
    edited August 2016 stanthemanaustriacusbaconstangronn[Deleted User]
  • Reply 3 of 102
    ALL:

    Perhaps this is yet another good reason (that of national sovereignty) to leave the EU!     If this realstionship and deal is good enough for Ireland the Apple then that should be the end of the matter.   The EU does not provide Ireland with 6,000 jobs like Apple does, so if I were Ireland I'd simply refuse to abide by their decision!  What the hell can they do?  Expel Ireland from the EU?  That would be a blessing and a death warrant to the lazy bureaucrats in the EU in Brussels.
    tallest skilequality72521ZooMigoJanNL
  • Reply 4 of 102
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    singularity said:
    So where in the EU should they go?
    Won’t be around much longer, so they could pick any country therein, really.
    equality72521
  • Reply 5 of 102
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member
    apple ][ said:
    Screw those new jobs that Apple was planning in that country!

    Apple should take its business elsewhere, there are plenty of other places to choose!


    So where in the EU should they go? They still need an eu Base and would still have to pay the tax.
    Good point! I suppose that they do need a EU base.

    In that case, Apple should raise the price of all products offered in the EU zone, to compensate for the illegal tax rape and to offset any loss of profits and income, because of the mob shake down.


    edited August 2016 equality72521
  • Reply 6 of 102
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member
    ALL:

    Perhaps this is yet another good reason (that of national sovereignty) to leave the EU!     If this realstionship and deal is good enough for Ireland the Apple then that should be the end of the matter.   The EU does not provide Ireland with 6,000 jobs like Apple does, so if I were Ireland I'd simply refuse to abide by their decision!  What the hell can they do?  Expel Ireland from the EU?  That would be a blessing and a death warrant to the lazy bureaucrats in the EU in Brussels.
    The EU will probably seek revenge and punitive measures against anybody who dares disobey them.

    Any country that is a part of the EU are basically slaves to the disgusting elite, and they should do what they're told, or else.

    The good news is that the EU has already begun to crumble. I don't give it that many more years, before they're dead 100%. That is so wonderful and long overdue. :#


    equality72521
  • Reply 7 of 102
    singularitysingularity Posts: 1,328member
    sog35 said:
    Apple will not pay anything close to $1 billion.

    This will go to appeal and be stuck for at least 3 years.
    Then the US government will pass a law to bring back the cash to the USA.
    There will be no cash in the EU for them to collect.

    Eventually they will settle for about $200 million.
    Apple could "send" all its money back to the US but if they failed on all its appeals it would still have to pay the back tax.
    ronn
  • Reply 8 of 102
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member
    Bullshit. Apple paid the taxes as legally required. The EU can't change the rules after the fact. 
    equality72521tallest skilanantksundarambaconstangpalomine
  • Reply 9 of 102
    singularitysingularity Posts: 1,328member
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    Apple will not pay anything close to $1 billion.

    This will go to appeal and be stuck for at least 3 years.
    Then the US government will pass a law to bring back the cash to the USA.
    There will be no cash in the EU for them to collect.

    Eventually they will settle for about $200 million.
    Apple could "send" all its money back to the US but if they failed on all its appeals it would still have to pay the back tax.
    EU won't waste their time. If there is no cash in the EU they have no leverage. Apple could play the waiting game for decades.

    EU will settle with Apple for a much lower amount. Bottom line is EU has very little leverage against the USA, Apple, and Ireland.

    Out of the four main figures (USA, EU, Apple, Ireland) the EU is the only one that is a parasite organization and may not even exist in 5 years.

    Apple and Ireland can appeal. The appeal will probably take 2 years at least. If they lose they can appeal to a higher court. Another 2 years. Then finally to the European Court of Justice that would take 3 years. 
    I wonder why Microsoft didn't use your wonderful plan when they got fined? All those well paid solicitors and all they had to do was consult with you!
    ronn
  • Reply 10 of 102
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    sog35 said:
    Apple will not pay anything close to $1 billion.

    This will go to appeal and be stuck for at least 3 years.
    Then the US government will pass a law to bring back the cash to the USA.
    There will be no cash in the EU for them to collect.

    Eventually they will settle for about $200 million.
    It will go to appeal but the money will have to be held in escrow.
    singularityronn
  • Reply 11 of 102
    ALL:

    Perhaps this is yet another good reason (that of national sovereignty) to leave the EU!     If this realstionship and deal is good enough for Ireland the Apple then that should be the end of the matter.   The EU does not provide Ireland with 6,000 jobs like Apple does, so if I were Ireland I'd simply refuse to abide by their decision!  What the hell can they do?  Expel Ireland from the EU?  That would be a blessing and a death warrant to the lazy bureaucrats in the EU in Brussels.
    This is not about sovereignty - like any member of the EU Ireland is obliged to play by the rules. They say that you cannot give a special deal to one organisation and not to others. The general tax rate of about 12 or so percent is already pretty low - tell me how much they would have to pay in the US? Apple with its highly paid lawyers must have known from the very beginning that they were breaking EU rules. Now they have to pay back the illegal tax subsidies
    singularityronn
  • Reply 12 of 102
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    jungmark said:
    Bullshit. Apple paid the taxes as legally required. The EU can't change the rules after the fact. 
    The EU is not changing any rules, this is all about enforcing rules that were broken.

    ronn
  • Reply 13 of 102
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member
    Apple should put some money into funding a revolution and the collapse of the EU. Call it an investment for the future. One that will save them lots of money.

    It is in Apple's best interest that the EU dies a quick death.
    JanNLmonstrosity
  • Reply 14 of 102
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    ALL:

    Perhaps this is yet another good reason (that of national sovereignty) to leave the EU!     If this realstionship and deal is good enough for Ireland the Apple then that should be the end of the matter.   The EU does not provide Ireland with 6,000 jobs like Apple does, so if I were Ireland I'd simply refuse to abide by their decision!  What the hell can they do?  Expel Ireland from the EU?  That would be a blessing and a death warrant to the lazy bureaucrats in the EU in Brussels.
    Ireland receives a lot of money from the EU in the form of payments for certain farm schemes, business assistance, research grants and so on.  If Ireland were to not comply with an EU directive, they would simply withhold payments to Ireland of the same value.

    If the EU expelled Ireland, Apple and all the other US companies located here would then be outside the EU.  Brilliant strategy you have there.
    edited August 2016 singularitygwydionronn
  • Reply 15 of 102
    sog35 said:
    Apple will not pay anything close to $1 billion.

    This will go to appeal and be stuck for at least 3 years.
    Then the US government will pass a law to bring back the cash to the USA.
    There will be no cash in the EU for them to collect.

    Eventually they will settle for about $200 million.
    Or nothing at all. The US government is taking this issue seriously with the EU, and this could end up becoming a major Trans-Atlantic spat. Lots of US companies are involved, not just Apple. This is far, far bigger than just one company.
    edited August 2016 baconstangpalomine
  • Reply 16 of 102
    singularitysingularity Posts: 1,328member
    sog35 said:
    cnocbui said:
    jungmark said:
    Bullshit. Apple paid the taxes as legally required. The EU can't change the rules after the fact. 
    The EU is not changing any rules, this is all about enforcing rules that were broken.

    No rules were broken. 
    Just Apple figured out a way to take advantage of those rules that no one else figured out.
    According to the story in the OP it looks like the EU says not.
    gwydionronn
  • Reply 17 of 102

    cnocbui said:
    jungmark said:
    Bullshit. Apple paid the taxes as legally required. The EU can't change the rules after the fact. 
    The EU is not changing any rules, this is all about enforcing rules that were broken.

    No. Rules they claim were broken. HUGE difference.
  • Reply 18 of 102

    apple ][ said:
    apple ][ said:
    Screw those new jobs that Apple was planning in that country!

    Apple should take its business elsewhere, there are plenty of other places to choose!


    So where in the EU should they go? They still need an eu Base and would still have to pay the tax.
    Good point! I suppose that they do need a EU base.

    In that case, Apple should raise the price of all products offered in the EU zone, to compensate for the illegal tax rape and to offset any loss of profits and income, because of the mob shake down.


    They probably will raise prices in the EU, if this were to come to pass. However, it's a long ways away, and affects many US companies (Amazon, Google, Starbucks, etc.) not just Apple.
  • Reply 19 of 102
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    Man, lots of unaffected little people getting butthurt and irate by damage to Apple, a multi billion dollar mega corporation, and making shit up about laws they don't understand.  

    The law was clear, Ireland and Apple violated, and now they have to backpay.  It's really that simple.  They got off lightly; the system is rigged in these cases so that the punishment is always less than the crime, Ireland and Apple's effective tax rate is still appallingly low.

    The EU is sticking around, no matter how many crazy alt-right yanks claim otherwise, and for the most part its laws are good ones.

    Good outcome.  The amount seems a little low, but I haven't done the math and I have no inclination to do so, so I'll trust it.
    big brother 84ronngiles
  • Reply 20 of 102
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member
    cnocbui said:

    If the EU expelled Ireland, Apple and all the other US companies located here would then be outside the EU.  Brilliant strategy you have there.
    That's ok.

    Who will suffer more?

    We don't need the EU.

    Let's see if the suits in Brussels are ready to play hardball. We sure are! Bring it on! We'll crush them all, like the little men that they are.
Sign In or Register to comment.