Apple allegedly working on Siri stand-alone speaker with HomeKit integration

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited September 2016
Apple appears to be stepping up efforts to combat Amazon's suite of Alexa voice recognition devices, with a Siri-based home voice assistant reportedly in the works.




According to a Bloomberg report, a two-year project implementing Siri directly in an Apple TV-sized device has reached the prototype phase. Allegedly, the prototypes "control appliances, locks, lights and curtains via voice activation" according to sources, suggesting a HomeKit controller.

The prototypes are said to include facial recognition sensors for user identification, plus advanced microphone and speaker technology to combat perceived shortfalls of Amazon's Alexa voice recognition family.

Early efforts at home Siri integration reportedly included speakers in the fourth generation Apple TV itself, with the company ultimately deciding to include a microphone in the remote instead. A second effort is said to have included "proprietary surround sound technology" but what that specifically defines is not clear.

The stage for a Siri whole-home integration device has been set



A possibility for simple Siri speaker configuration is Apple's new W1 chip, as implemented in the AirPods recently unveiled by Apple. Utilization of the W1 could result in a "one-click" setup through compatible devices, with addition of the device to an existing network with the same ease as pairing the AirPods with an iPhone 7 by opening up the charging case.

Apple's Siri at the core of the device has been given a boost in capabilities and accuracy since release. Siri shifted to a "deep neural network" to improve the product in 2014, according to Apple executives when interviewed in August.

The Bloomberg report suggests that new Siri speaker prototypes are being tested in engineers' homes. Depending on the developmental stage, the prototypes may require U.S. Federal Communications Commission approval, and a device spotted working its way through the system on Thursday matches suggestions that the device may be similar in size to the Apple TV.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 33
    Too bad Apple didn't have a dedicated, always-on Siri appliance before I bought my three Amazon Echo devices. I've grown quite fond of them.


    freshmaker
  • Reply 2 of 33
    Apple do appear to been rather slow with this kind of device. Hopefully they will catch up the likes of Amazon.

    I think Apple need to do more to engage with hardware manufacturers. I have a Tado heating control system and LIFX lights. The manufacturers have already embraced Amazon Echo first and only Tado has announced that it will be providing access to Apple Home. Unfortunately this requires replacement of the recently introduced Tado internet bridge version 2 with version 3. The v 2 bridge works with Amazon Echo without needing replacement .

    l plan to try controlling my Tado heating using first Amazon Echo and in a month with Apple Home to compare how well each works. 

    macgui
  • Reply 3 of 33
    sog35 said:
    zroger73 said:
    Too bad Apple didn't have a dedicated, always-on Siri appliance before I bought my three Amazon Echo devices. I've grown quite fond of them.


    I still don't understand the benefit of an Echo.

    Could you not do the same thing with your phone? I don't see the point of having something plugged into a wall, instead of your phone or watch.

    IMO, the Echo seems like a move backwards
    Echo doesn't require you to look at a screen. I still don't completely get the need but Apple makes most of its money selling hardware so I guess they feel they need another new hardware product to sell?
  • Reply 4 of 33
    dachar said:
    Apple do appear to been rather slow with this kind of device. Hopefully they will catch up the likes of Amazon.

    I think Apple need to do more to engage with hardware manufacturers. I have a Tado heating control system and LIFX lights. The manufacturers have already embraced Amazon Echo first and only Tado has announced that it will be providing access to Apple Home. Unfortunately this requires replacement of the recently introduced Tado internet bridge version 2 with version 3. The v 2 bridge works with Amazon Echo without needing replacement .

    l plan to try controlling my Tado heating using first Amazon Echo and in a month with Apple Home to compare how well each works. 

    Same view here. Today (at least for me) it has already become a problem that too many devices listen. I have an Apple Watch and an iPad, which is in the kitchen most of the time. Recently I adressed my watch "Hey Siri, call ..." and both the watch and the iPad would respond. First i was wondering where the voice came from, since only the iPad talked back to me.
  • Reply 5 of 33
    Siri will have to get drastically better for a product like this to be successful. This is embarrassing: image Just this morning I asked Siri "when is the World Series" and Siri replied "sorry I couldn't find any games or schedules matching your request". For a device like this to be useful and successful voice assistant has to be top notch. Siri has a long way to go.
    edited September 2016 calisingularityjbdragon
  • Reply 6 of 33
    sog35 said:
    Siri will have to get drastically better for a product like this to be successful. This is embarrassing:

    <a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=9huebo" target="_blank"><img src="http://i67.tinypic.com/9huebo.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>

    Just this morning I asked Siri "when is the World Series" and Siri replied "sorry I couldn't find any games or schedules matching your request". For a device like this to be useful and successful voice assistant has to be top notch. Siri has a long way to go.
    Does Echo give you the right answer?
    I don't have an Echo so I wouldn't know. But Google Now does give the right answer. 
    dasanman69
  • Reply 7 of 33
    I'm all for it IF they support the grand I have invested in GE Smart light switches which I found to be much better than bulbs, as they are connected to power, they "just simply work", but are based on Z-Wave / Wink hub(s). 
    Show me a light switch that Apple supports instead of a gigantic dongle on the AC?
  • Reply 8 of 33
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    yes, do it. do it now
  • Reply 9 of 33
    calicali Posts: 3,494member
    "To be announced at WWDC 2016"

    "To be announced at Apples September event"

    Eh. I don't get the point of it either unless it's Siri added to Apple TV or Beats Pill.

    Siri will have to get drastically better for a product like this to be successful. This is embarrassing: image Just this morning I asked Siri "when is the World Series" and Siri replied "sorry I couldn't find any games or schedules matching your request". For a device like this to be useful and successful voice assistant has to be top notch. Siri has a long way to go.
    Siri is almost useless and even more stupid on Apple TV. I've asked "when does the sun go down?" And Siri replied "The Suns game is Thursday..." I even had it once give me a string of random characters as an answer and Siri tried to pronounce it!!

    I wish Apple would purchase will.i.ams tech company. His AneedA tech is so far ahead of Siri and allows 3rd party knowledge to be downloaded. Which I thought was iOS 10s intention but so far it only alllows you to CONTROL 3rd party apps. Big difference.

    It seems strange will.i.am has been hanging around Apple though.
  • Reply 10 of 33
    hagarhagar Posts: 130member
    Why Apple thinks Siri is already great and ready for this kind of expansion is beyond me. With the iOS 10 update I decided to use it again and it just doesn't work.

    While Siri understands me better than before, it fails to correctly interpret my commands. I now switched to the Dutch version and it's even more stupid than I remember. Creating reminders or appointments, asking driving directions, playing a song, ... it just doesn't work. You ask for one thing and it does something completely different and unrelated. it's even a mystery on why it would do a particular thing based on what I asked.
  • Reply 11 of 33

    The prototypes are said to include facial recognition sensors for user identification, plus advanced microphone and speaker technology to combat perceived shortfalls of Amazon's Alexa voice recognition family.

    w 1The Bloomberg report suggests that new Siri speaker prototypes are being tested in engineers' homes. Depending on the developmental stage, the prototypes may require U.S. Federal Communications Commission approval, and a device spotted working its way through the system on Thursday matches suggestions that the device may be similar in size to the Apple TV.

    The device mentioned in the other thread, had NFC * and RS-485 ** circuitry.  Don't know why either of these, along with facial recognition would be needed in a remote speaker.

    *

    Near-field communication (NFC) is a set of communication protocols that enable two electronic devices, one of which is usually a portable device such as a smartphone, to establish communication by bringing them within about 4 cm (2 in) of each other.[1]

    Like other "proximity card" technologies, NFC employs electromagnetic induction between two loop antennae when NFC devices—for example a smartphone and a "smartposter"—exchange information, operating within the globally available unlicensed radio frequency ISM band of 13.56 MHz on ISO/IEC 18000-3 air interface at 

    rates ranging from 106 to 424 kbit/s.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_field_communication


    ** 

    RS-485 enables the configuration of inexpensive local networks and multidrop communications links.

     It offers data transmission speeds of 35 Mbit/s for distances up to 10 m and 100 kbit/s up to 1200 m. 

    Since it uses a differential balanced line over twisted pair (like RS-422), it can span relatively large distances up to 1,200 m (4,000 ft). A rule of thumb is that the speed in bit/s multiplied by the length in meters should not exceed 108. Thus a 50 meter cable should not signal faster than 2 Mbit/s.[2]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-485



    For comparison, Apple's Airport Extreme and latest AppleTV support 802.11ac WiFi:

    IEEE 802.11ac is a wireless networking standard in the 802.11 family (which is marketed under the brand name Wi-Fi), developed in the IEEE Standards Association process,[1] providing high-throughput wireless local area networks (WLANs) on the 5 GHz band.[1] The standard was developed from 2011 through 2013 and approved in January 2014.[1][2]

    The specification has multi-station throughput of

    at least 1 gigabit per second and single-link throughput of at least 500 megabits per second (500 Mbit/s). 

    This is accomplished by extending the air-interface concepts embraced by 802.11n: wider RF bandwidth (up to 160 MHz), more MIMO spatial streams (up to eight), downlink multi-user MIMO (up to four clients), and high-density modulation (up to 256-QAM).[3][4]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11ac


    And, back in the day (1980-1989) we sold hundreds of these -- including 7 different networks at Apple HQ:

    Corvus's Omninet ran at one megabit per second,

    used twisted pair cables and had a simple add-in card for each computer. The card cost $400 and could be installed by the end user.[citation needed] Cards and operating software were produced for both the Apple II and the IBM PC and XT. At the time, many networking experts said that twisted pair could never work because "the bits would leak off"[citation needed], but it eventually became the de facto standard for wired LANs.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvus_Systems

    There was an Omninet adapter for the Mac that retailed for $100.  I was told by Mark Hahn, co-founder of Corvus, that Apple could include Omninet in every Mac for a cost of $10.

    And this gem:

    AppleTalk[edit]

    Just prior to its release in early 1985, AppleBus was renamed AppleTalk

    The system had a number of limitations, including a speed of only 230.4 kbit/s, a maximum distance of 1000 feet from end to end, and only 32 nodes per LAN.[12] 

    But as the basic hardware was built into the Mac, adding nodes only cost about $50 for the adaptor box. In comparison, Ethernet or Token Ring cards cost hundreds or thousands of dollars. Additionally, the entire networking stack required only about 6 kB of RAM, allowing it to run on any Mac.[13]



    All this for an always-on Hey Siri???  Been there, Done that!

    edited September 2016
  • Reply 12 of 33
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    zroger73 said:
    Too bad Apple didn't have a dedicated, always-on Siri appliance before I bought my three Amazon Echo devices. I've grown quite fond of them.


    I still don't understand the benefit of an Echo.

    Could you not do the same thing with your phone? I don't see the point of having something plugged into a wall, instead of your phone or watch.

    IMO, the Echo seems like a move backwards
    Echo doesn't require you to look at a screen. I still don't completely get the need but Apple makes most of its money selling hardware so I guess they feel they need another new hardware product to sell?
    Can't you use Hey Siri without looking at the screen?

    You can do everything with an iPhone and a bluetooth speaker that Echo does.

    I don't get the point of Echo. Its a step backwards. A bulky, wired solution in a mobile and wireless world.
    I have an iPhone 6, so no "Hey Siri" unless I'm plugged in. Still...

    Siri can't set the temperature on my Nest thermostat. Echo does.

    Siri can't operate my LIFX bulbs. Echo does.

    Echo hears me from the next room. Siri doesn't.

    Echo doesn't require me to pair to a Bluetooth speaker to get much better sound quality than the tiny speakers in an iDevice.

    Don't get me wrong - I'm a loyal Apple fan, but Siri currently doesn't do many of the things Echo does and vice-versa.

    Not everything needs to be, should be, or can be "mobile and wireless". Wireless deep freezers? Mobile recliner? Wireless ceiling fans? Mobile wood-burning fireplace?

    One of my Echos lives in my kitchen/living area. It's always there and always on. It doesn't need to be charged. I can't lose it or drop it. It's there to listen to the daily news summary when I come home from work. It's there to add items to my shopping list. It's there to play background music when I have guests without having to locate, turn on, and pair a Bluetooth speaker. Another Echo in a bedroom is there to read me a bedtime story. It's there to turn off the lights and lower the temperature when my iPhone is plugged in to charge in another room where Siri can't hear me. Being fixed devices, I never have to worry about carrying them with me - they're always right where they belong.
    freshmaker
  • Reply 13 of 33
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,799member
    sog35 said:

    I don't get the point of Echo. 
    The purpose is to enhance the Amazon ecosystem and add value for its customers. It also has an up sell marketing component because you can order anything from Amazon and several other services with just your voice.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 14 of 33
    zroger73 said:

    Not everything needs to be, should be, or can be "mobile and wireless". Wireless deep freezers? Mobile recliner? Wireless ceiling fans? Mobile wood-burning fireplace?


    Guess you've never had a freezer fail, wasting several thousand $ of food -- not to mention the mess and inconvenience.

    Here's what we use:

    http://www.sensorpush.com

    edited September 2016
  • Reply 15 of 33
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,799member
    sog35 said:


    i can see how Echo can be beneficial for a very small portion of the population who has smart home features
    And the MILLIONS of people with an Amazon Prime account. "Wake...Reorder dog food."
    edited September 2016 williamlondon
  • Reply 16 of 33
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,799member
    sog35 said:
    I'm a prime member.

    no way would i order stuff or allow stuff to be ordered with voice.
    Whatever. Returns are free.
  • Reply 17 of 33
    ben20ben20 Posts: 126member
    Good luck with that. Alexa is years ahead of Siri. Apple problems starts with the microphones, Echo has much cooler features than Siri, like reading a book to the kids, checking my commute and best of all, play free music from iHeartradio and it understands what you say.
  • Reply 18 of 33
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    Siri will have to get drastically better for a product like this to be successful. This is embarrassing:

    <a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=9huebo" target="_blank"><img src="http://i67.tinypic.com/9huebo.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>

    Just this morning I asked Siri "when is the World Series" and Siri replied "sorry I couldn't find any games or schedules matching your request". For a device like this to be useful and successful voice assistant has to be top notch. Siri has a long way to go.
    Does Echo give you the right answer?
    I don't have an Echo so I wouldn't know. But Google Now does give the right answer. 
    All voice assistants have gaps. Questions they don't understand or can't answer. Maybe the type of questions you ask fits Google Now's algo's better. 

    But to say Siri is miles behind Google now or Echo is silly. Just one comparison of many:

    http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/09/this-is-what-happens-when-you-try-siri-google-now-cortana-and-s-voice-at-once.html

    And now that Siri is opened to 3rd parties it will only get better.
    Siri should be so much better than it is. We give it a pass because, Apple.  But if this was someone else's voice assistant we'd be bagging on it for being so bad.
    volcan
  • Reply 19 of 33
    zroger73 said:
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    zroger73 said:
    Too bad Apple didn't have a dedicated, always-on Siri appliance before I bought my three Amazon Echo devices. I've grown quite fond of them.


    I still don't understand the benefit of an Echo.

    Could you not do the same thing with your phone? I don't see the point of having something plugged into a wall, instead of your phone or watch.

    IMO, the Echo seems like a move backwards
    Echo doesn't require you to look at a screen. I still don't completely get the need but Apple makes most of its money selling hardware so I guess they feel they need another new hardware product to sell?
    Can't you use Hey Siri without looking at the screen?

    You can do everything with an iPhone and a bluetooth speaker that Echo does.

    I don't get the point of Echo. Its a step backwards. A bulky, wired solution in a mobile and wireless world.
    I have an iPhone 6, so no "Hey Siri" unless I'm plugged in. Still...

    Siri can't set the temperature on my Nest thermostat. Echo does.

    Siri can't operate my LIFX bulbs. Echo does.

    Echo hears me from the next room. Siri doesn't.

    Echo doesn't require me to pair to a Bluetooth speaker to get much better sound quality than the tiny speakers in an iDevice.

    Don't get me wrong - I'm a loyal Apple fan, but Siri currently doesn't do many of the things Echo does and vice-versa.

    Not everything needs to be, should be, or can be "mobile and wireless". Wireless deep freezers? Mobile recliner? Wireless ceiling fans? Mobile wood-burning fireplace?

    One of my Echos lives in my kitchen/living area. It's always there and always on. It doesn't need to be charged. I can't lose it or drop it. It's there to listen to the daily news summary when I come home from work. It's there to add items to my shopping list. It's there to play background music when I have guests without having to locate, turn on, and pair a Bluetooth speaker. Another Echo in a bedroom is there to read me a bedtime story. It's there to turn off the lights and lower the temperature when my iPhone is plugged in to charge in another room where Siri can't hear me. Being fixed devices, I never have to worry about carrying them with me - they're always right where they belong.
    LIFX will support HomeKit soon. You can't knock Siri for that when it has nothing to do with Apple. I have an Echo as well and I think it's a good prodcut. I love being able to reorder things from Amazon. One thing I find really annoying is it picks up sounds while I watch TV almost on a daily basis. Echo randomly says something about not understanding what I said or if I can repeat it. Do you have that issue with yours? 
  • Reply 20 of 33
    Siri will have to get drastically better for a product like this to be successful. This is embarrassing: image Just this morning I asked Siri "when is the World Series" and Siri replied "sorry I couldn't find any games or schedules matching your request". For a device like this to be useful and successful voice assistant has to be top notch. Siri has a long way to go.
    if theres something siri doesn't know then i try "google when is the world series" came up with web result of my answer. the fact that siri doesn't know everything isn't a deal breaker to me, since there are alternative queries that give me my answer. sure some people are into baseball or pro sports but I'm not. guaranteed there are queries I'm interested in that siri will never be programmed for.
    williamlondon
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