the fact that it does not have a single USB-A in the back is an indication that we really need those dongles even at our desks.
No you don't. If you're going to buy a new Mac and new display that only supports USB-C then spend another $5 on a cable that is USB-C. But this is all irrelevant because anyone who is bitching about USB-C coming into vogue is not going to be wanting a new Mac or display that supports only USB-C. This was never intended for people like you.
If there's any issue to take, it's that the USB-hub in the back is USB 2.0 speeds.
You're missing the point or intentionally overlooking it. It's not about the extra money, it's the lack of consideration that is leading to inconveniences
If it's inconvenient to buy that monitor that doesn't support your legacy devices then why would you buy it? Nearly every fucking option out there is for USB-A, but you're complaining about this future-forward option that is just now shipping in the 4K model and still not shipping with the 5K model, because it's not supporting your legacy devices.
I'm shocked that you believe every device have to be designed around what is convenient for you. Do you the same thing for every other facet of your life? The Bugatti Chiron costs too much for you so they shouldn't have made it? Electric vehicles are inconvenient for you because you live in a rural area? Monday Night Football is insensitive to your needs because you have to work that night? I can't even wrap my head around this notion that LG lacked consideration for your needs.
If all you can get out of the ports in the back is USB 2, why in the world are the connectors type C. Oh yah, to sell dongles.
Although the monitor designs look like crap, for the price, I wouldn't mind picking up some of the 5k monitors. Unfortunate, even a new state of the art $10 000.00 Mac Pro can't use them and with no idea when or if Apple will update them, we've got to pass.
The entire point of the 2016 MacBook Pro & LG monitor announcement is to push people towards USB-C. Either you commit 100% to USB-C.. or you dont. The moment you go halfway on USB-C.. is the moment you open the door to people to revert back to older versions of USB-C.
I don't know why people still think that Apple has "committed" to USB C when their latest iPhone is USB A and their upcoming (2017) Beats headphones will also be USB A.
If all you can get out of the ports in the back is USB 2, why in the world are the connectors type C. Oh yah, to sell dongles.
Although the monitor designs look like crap, for the price, I wouldn't mind picking up some of the 5k monitors. Unfortunate, even a new state of the art $10 000.00 Mac Pro can't use them and with no idea when or if Apple will update them, we've got to pass.
The entire point of the 2016 MacBook Pro & LG monitor announcement is to push people towards USB-C. Either you commit 100% to USB-C.. or you dont. The moment you go halfway on USB-C.. is the moment you open the door to people to revert back to older versions of USB-C. While I agree the 2016 MacBook Pro does have some shortcomings, the 2017 and 2018 models should only improve on this initial new design.. and the price should drop significantly. And we all know many laptop, phone and tablet manufacturers simply copy what Apple offers.. which should mean a few years from now, there should a ton of USB-C devices on the market. All thanks to Apple being the first major company to push USB-C adoption 100%.
And I'm not sure if anyone has every told you this, since you seem so mind-bent on Apple selling dongles (as-if they even needed that revenue stream). But USB-C is an entirely OPEN USB standard. Meaning ANYONE can make a USB-C cable, adapter, hub, monitor, etc. I dont know where you get this idea from that only Apple sells 'dongles'. In fact it goes a bit further than that.. this marks the first time in history that the ENTIRE MacBook line of computers from Apple is now absolutely free of any PROPRIETARY Apple ports. So buy your 2016 MacBook from Apple.. and buy ANY future cables.. from ANY manufacturer you choose.. as long as they follow the USB-C spec. As much as I loved Magsafe, you know what I love even more? No longer needing to purchase additional Magsafe chargers @ $99 a piece.
But please dont let these facts about the open end, standardized, next generation USB-C spec cloud your insane judgement that somehow Apple only moved to USB-C.. because they need to sell dongles to survive lmao. I bet you are still angry that Apple once upon a time also dropped the PS/2, Serial, Parallel, Floppy & Optical Disc drives from the MacBook lineup.. and somehow forced you to buy an "Apple dongled" USB external disc drive lol!!
You are completely misunderstanding my point. I agree with you 100% that once you switch to USB C, you should be going all in. If you re-read the article and my post, you will notice one big thing. The ports on the 4K monitor are not USB C. They are not even USB 3. They are USB 2 with a USB C connector. So when you buy your new all in (eg. scanner) that requires USB C or USB 3, it won't work even though you are able to physically plug it in.
My point was, if all you can get out of these is USB 2 then it's a legacy type port and all legacy USB 2 devices have a type A connector. So unless your new USB devices are so low level that it can cut down to USB 2 speeds and power requirements, you will require a dongle on these ports. To me this is mis-representation of the USB C port and will eventually lead to confusion and disappointment when grandma plugs in her new USB C scanner 2 years down the road from now.
This does not apply to the 5k monitor which is utilizing the USB c ports in the correct manor. That's why I said I would consider getting the 5k monitors.
In your exact scenario how does a scanner using a USB-C connection.. over a USB2 speeds (480mb/sec) not work for Grandma. Or for anyone in that matter?
While I understand that not using Thunderbolt3 on the smaller, cheaper 21.5" monitor is frustrating. The article specifically states that the 21.5" monitor was designed to be used with the 12" MacBook that does NOT support Thunderbolt3.
Furthermore as an owner of a launch day 2015 12" MacBook Retina (okay.. It technically belongs to my wife lol) who is still looking for a USB-C input monitor.. I can tell you with 1st hand knowledge that these two announcements from LG are not the be all, end all, of USB-C input monitors on the market. If you dont agree with LG's decision to make an all-USB-C port monitor. Then you have plenty of other options.. including other options from LG. I've had my eye on the USB-C input LG 27UD88-W for almost a year now (https://www.amazon.com/LG-Electronics-27UD88-W-LED-Lit-Monitor/dp/B01CDYB0QS). And yes.. it supports USB3.0 connections. Its street price is $699.. but its been as cheap as $459. There are other USB-C input monitors available from Lenovo, Asus, Acer and lesser names. I hope Dell will be announcing a USB-C input monitor soon.
Re-read my spiel about USB-C being an **OPEN** standard and how more manufacturers will be joining into USB-C thanks to Apples 100% effort. A year from now I'd imagine every monitor maker will have some sort of USB-C input monitor for sale. Hell CES is in just a few weeks.. I would expect quite a few to get announced there. There is no reason at all to believe that the LG 4K and 5K Ultrafine displays will be the last USB-C input monitors ever to get announced. Plenty more are on the way. And they should include features like USB-A ports, Webcams, speakers, mics, built-in USB 3.0 hubs.
Woe dude. Not really sure what you are arguing. Where did I say "don't switch to USB c" or that"no other monitor has USB C ports". I said quite the opposite. In fact, I went out of my way to say the 5k LG version does have real USB C ports and is great deal if you don't care about looks.
in my grandma scenario if you can't understand that devices place stickers on the box that have minimum requirements. Today, Min USB 2 is common, a few years from now those minimums move up to USB 3 and USB C and more then likely these new devices will get power from the USB C port directly. To grandma that's fine because she has USB c ports right?
If you are okay buying USB 2 ports disguised as USB C and feel you are all in on USB C because of it, good on you. That's where our opinions differ and there is no right/wrong answer. We agree on this though, a cutting edge monitor with a hub that maxes out at USB 2 speeds in the year 2017 is not for me, nor is it something I could recommend with a straight face.
the fact that it does not have a single USB-A in the back is an indication that we really need those dongles even at our desks.
No you don't. If you're going to buy a new Mac and new display that only supports USB-C then spend another $5 on a cable that is USB-C. But this is all irrelevant because anyone who is bitching about USB-C coming into vogue is not going to be wanting a new Mac or display that supports only USB-C. This was never intended for people like you.
If there's any issue to take, it's that the USB-hub in the back is USB 2.0 speeds.
You're missing the point or intentionally overlooking it. It's not about the extra money, it's the lack of consideration that is leading to inconveniences
If it's inconvenient to buy that monitor that doesn't support your legacy devices then why would you buy it? Nearly every fucking option out there is for USB-A, but you're complaining about this future-forward option that is just now shipping in the 4K model and still not shipping with the 5K model, because it's not supporting your legacy devices.
I'm shocked that you believe every device have to be designed around what is convenient for you. Do you the same thing for every other facet of your life? The Bugatti Chiron costs too much for you so they shouldn't have made it? Electric vehicles are inconvenient for you because you live in a rural area? Monday Night Football is insensitive to your needs because you have to work that night? I can't even wrap my head around this notion that LG lacked consideration for your needs.
According to Apple's line of accessories USB-A is not Legacy. Look at their latest iPad, iPad Pro, iPhone, Apple Watch, and current as well as future Beats headphones. So why not give us a single USB-A so we don't have to dangle crap from our displays and laptops?! How hard would it have been to include a USB-A ports as part of the monitor so we can plug in Apple's own USB devices?
I've got a question for the "I hate dongles" crowd. If adapters bug you so much, what's preventing you from just swapping the cable with one of these?
or is this really just about USB thumb drives?
(I assume I'm the only person left alive who prefers wired mice and keyboards; I can't think of much else with non-replaceable cords)
It's not really about the dongle itself. In the case of the 5k monitor, getting a dongle or a new cable is an acceptable transition method because you are gaining all the new functionality of USB C and future proofing yourself with device compatibility later on.
In in the case of this 4K monitor, you are being fooled into believing you are getting USB C when in reality you are only getting USB 2 which is 2 generations back. Why should people have to go out and buy dongles and new cables when all that works with them is old or low specked devices.
One thing that made the Apple Thunderbolt display easier to justify the expense was the extra hardware that was built into the display.
The only mention of speakers on this display in the reviewer are that there simply are some. (??) The Thunderbolt display had great speakers for a monitor. Does this LG? This review leaves us guessing as to the quality to the speakers. I'm guessing they're pretty average if they didn't get reviewed?
And how are you supposed to FaceTime on a connected MacBook in desktop mode without a FaceTime camera?
Sure this display is cheaper than the Thunderbolt display but its also far less functional.
Apple, where is replacement for your now discontinued Thunderbolt display? This isn't it, despite your assertions.
If all you can get out of the ports in the back is USB 2, why in the world are the connectors type C. Oh yah, to sell dongles.
Although the monitor designs look like crap, for the price, I wouldn't mind picking up some of the 5k monitors. Unfortunate, even a new state of the art $10 000.00 Mac Pro can't use them and with no idea when or if Apple will update them, we've got to pass.
The entire point of the 2016 MacBook Pro & LG monitor announcement is to push people towards USB-C. Either you commit 100% to USB-C.. or you dont. The moment you go halfway on USB-C.. is the moment you open the door to people to revert back to older versions of USB-C. While I agree the 2016 MacBook Pro does have some shortcomings, the 2017 and 2018 models should only improve on this initial new design.. and the price should drop significantly. And we all know many laptop, phone and tablet manufacturers simply copy what Apple offers.. which should mean a few years from now, there should a ton of USB-C devices on the market. All thanks to Apple being the first major company to push USB-C adoption 100%.
And I'm not sure if anyone has every told you this, since you seem so mind-bent on Apple selling dongles (as-if they even needed that revenue stream). But USB-C is an entirely OPEN USB standard. Meaning ANYONE can make a USB-C cable, adapter, hub, monitor, etc. I dont know where you get this idea from that only Apple sells 'dongles'. In fact it goes a bit further than that.. this marks the first time in history that the ENTIRE MacBook line of computers from Apple is now absolutely free of any PROPRIETARY Apple ports. So buy your 2016 MacBook from Apple.. and buy ANY future cables.. from ANY manufacturer you choose.. as long as they follow the USB-C spec. As much as I loved Magsafe, you know what I love even more? No longer needing to purchase additional Magsafe chargers @ $99 a piece.
But please dont let these facts about the open end, standardized, next generation USB-C spec cloud your insane judgement that somehow Apple only moved to USB-C.. because they need to sell dongles to survive lmao. I bet you are still angry that Apple once upon a time also dropped the PS/2, Serial, Parallel, Floppy & Optical Disc drives from the MacBook lineup.. and somehow forced you to buy an "Apple dongled" USB external disc drive lol!!
You are completely misunderstanding my point. I agree with you 100% that once you switch to USB C, you should be going all in. If you re-read the article and my post, you will notice one big thing. The ports on the 4K monitor are not USB C. They are not even USB 3. They are USB 2 with a USB C connector. So when you buy your new all in (eg. scanner) that requires USB C or USB 3, it won't work even though you are able to physically plug it in.
My point was, if all you can get out of these is USB 2 then it's a legacy type port and all legacy USB 2 devices have a type A connector. So unless your new USB devices are so low level that it can cut down to USB 2 speeds and power requirements, you will require a dongle on these ports. To me this is mis-representation of the USB C port and will eventually lead to confusion and disappointment when grandma plugs in her new USB C scanner 2 years down the road from now.
This does not apply to the 5k monitor which is utilizing the USB c ports in the correct manor. That's why I said I would consider getting the 5k monitors.
USB-C is the connector. USB 1/2/3/3.1 gen1/2 are protocols. They're not interchangeable. A USB-C connector doesn't even technically have to support USB data at all. If a scanner requires a 5Gbps USB 3.0 connection then that's one thing but are you talking about a real product or making up this grandma scenario?
If all you can get out of the ports in the back is USB 2, why in the world are the connectors type C. Oh yah, to sell dongles.
Although the monitor designs look like crap, for the price, I wouldn't mind picking up some of the 5k monitors. Unfortunate, even a new state of the art $10 000.00 Mac Pro can't use them and with no idea when or if Apple will update them, we've got to pass.
The entire point of the 2016 MacBook Pro & LG monitor announcement is to push people towards USB-C. Either you commit 100% to USB-C.. or you dont. The moment you go halfway on USB-C.. is the moment you open the door to people to revert back to older versions of USB-C. While I agree the 2016 MacBook Pro does have some shortcomings, the 2017 and 2018 models should only improve on this initial new design.. and the price should drop significantly. And we all know many laptop, phone and tablet manufacturers simply copy what Apple offers.. which should mean a few years from now, there should a ton of USB-C devices on the market. All thanks to Apple being the first major company to push USB-C adoption 100%.
And I'm not sure if anyone has every told you this, since you seem so mind-bent on Apple selling dongles (as-if they even needed that revenue stream). But USB-C is an entirely OPEN USB standard. Meaning ANYONE can make a USB-C cable, adapter, hub, monitor, etc. I dont know where you get this idea from that only Apple sells 'dongles'. In fact it goes a bit further than that.. this marks the first time in history that the ENTIRE MacBook line of computers from Apple is now absolutely free of any PROPRIETARY Apple ports. So buy your 2016 MacBook from Apple.. and buy ANY future cables.. from ANY manufacturer you choose.. as long as they follow the USB-C spec. As much as I loved Magsafe, you know what I love even more? No longer needing to purchase additional Magsafe chargers @ $99 a piece.
But please dont let these facts about the open end, standardized, next generation USB-C spec cloud your insane judgement that somehow Apple only moved to USB-C.. because they need to sell dongles to survive lmao. I bet you are still angry that Apple once upon a time also dropped the PS/2, Serial, Parallel, Floppy & Optical Disc drives from the MacBook lineup.. and somehow forced you to buy an "Apple dongled" USB external disc drive lol!!
You are completely misunderstanding my point. I agree with you 100% that once you switch to USB C, you should be going all in. If you re-read the article and my post, you will notice one big thing. The ports on the 4K monitor are not USB C. They are not even USB 3. They are USB 2 with a USB C connector. So when you buy your new all in (eg. scanner) that requires USB C or USB 3, it won't work even though you are able to physically plug it in.
My point was, if all you can get out of these is USB 2 then it's a legacy type port and all legacy USB 2 devices have a type A connector. So unless your new USB devices are so low level that it can cut down to USB 2 speeds and power requirements, you will require a dongle on these ports. To me this is mis-representation of the USB C port and will eventually lead to confusion and disappointment when grandma plugs in her new USB C scanner 2 years down the road from now.
This does not apply to the 5k monitor which is utilizing the USB c ports in the correct manor. That's why I said I would consider getting the 5k monitors.
USB-C is the connector. USB 1/2/3/3.1 gen1/2 are protocols. They're not interchangeable. A USB-C connector doesn't even technically have to support USB data at all. If a scanner requires a 5Gbps USB 3.0 connection then that's one thing but are you talking about a real product or making up this grandma scenario?
I said the grandma scenario was an example so of course it's hypothetical.
If you can't see devices such as hard drives taking advantage of power over USB C to power the drive itself or that new devices will eventually state a USB 3 port as a minimum spec, I can't argue my point. I have no proof that this will happen other than past experience.
I completely understand the position some of you are stating but I feel my argument is also valid. So I'm not sure why people are attacking me or calling me "wrong" for my opinion. If you are okay with buying an expensive USB 2 hub and then buying dongles to run your old USB 2 devices and also believe near future devices won't lock you out, go for it. It's great deal. It's just not something I'm interested in dealing with on a brand new monitor and I'd spend a little more to get the 5k or look at a different brand completely.
"By transmitting video and data over USB-C, and not Thunderbolt 3, this does limit the capabilities of the 4K display somewhat. With less bandwidth available, the USB-C ports on the back of the monitor operate at USB 2.0 speeds --?slower than even the full-size USB 3.0 ports on Apple's 2015 MacBook Pro."
Only the three auxiliary ports are USB 2.0. The main input port is not. Here are the specs from Apple's page:
Display Size: 21.5-inch (diagonal) 4K display with IPS technology
Resolution: 4096-by-2304 with support for millions of colors
Brightness: 500 cd/m²
Color Gamut: P3 wide color gamut
Ports: One USB-C (input), three USB-C (USB 2, 480 Mbps)
"Around the borders, the LG monitor has a matte black look that's simple. The screen itself is glossy, which helps colors to pop, but may not be ideal for those who use it in a bright environment."
In a concession made presumably to allow the 21.5-inch LG monitor to work with Apple's ultraportable 12-inch MacBook, the UltraFine 4K Display transmits over the USB-C protocol, and not Thunderbolt 3.
This means that if you use this display with Apple's latest MacBook Pro lineup, you won't be tapping into the full potential of the Thunderbolt 3 USB-C ports on your machine. Apple's MacBook Pro with a USB-C to USB-C cable, and includes four USB-C ports on the back. There are no full-size USB ports or any other types of inputs on the monitor.
And, as we mentioned before, these ports run at the slower USB 2.0 speed, despite featuring USB-C connectivity. This means that devices connected to the MacBook through the monitor will be slower than if they were connected directly to the MacBook
Be careful what you wish for. The big problem I see with Thunderbolt 3 are the very short cable lengths allowed while running at maximum speed. Most cables are only .5 meter. 1 meter cables are claimed to work, but anything longer and the speed drops in half, unless you run optical cables, if anyone makes them for USB-C.
I am a big fan of this display. Typically I have two ethernet connections, now both connected to the display, plus an outboard hard drive for Time Machine. I use one network bridged to Windows under VMware, the other to the Mac, plus Wifi. My older machine could do that, but with four extra cables hung off both sides of the MBP. Now the computer is smaller, and runs with just one cable carrying all those interfaces, AND power. Yes, USB 2.0 makes my gigabit ethernet adapter, and USB 3 hard drive top out at around 350 Mbps. But the convenience is just awesome! If that isn't enough, VMware allows Windows sound to be separately directed to the external display. Now if could just have the keyboard and mouse connections isolated as well. Oh well...
the fact that it does not have a single USB-A in the back is an indication that we really need those dongles even at our desks.
No you don't. If you're going to buy a new Mac and new display that only supports USB-C then spend another $5 on a cable that is USB-C. But this is all irrelevant because anyone who is bitching about USB-C coming into vogue is not going to be wanting a new Mac or display that supports only USB-C. This was never intended for people like you.
If there's any issue to take, it's that the USB-hub in the back is USB 2.0 speeds.
You're missing the point or intentionally overlooking it. It's not about the extra money, it's the lack of consideration that is leading to inconveniences
Incorrect. They considered it. They decided to go where the puck is going rather than where it is, which is evidently what you'd prefer instead.
Comments
I'm shocked that you believe every device have to be designed around what is convenient for you. Do you the same thing for every other facet of your life? The Bugatti Chiron costs too much for you so they shouldn't have made it? Electric vehicles are inconvenient for you because you live in a rural area? Monday Night Football is insensitive to your needs because you have to work that night? I can't even wrap my head around this notion that LG lacked consideration for your needs.
in my grandma scenario if you can't understand that devices place stickers on the box that have minimum requirements. Today, Min USB 2 is common, a few years from now those minimums move up to USB 3 and USB C and more then likely these new devices will get power from the USB C port directly. To grandma that's fine because she has USB c ports right?
If you are okay buying USB 2 ports disguised as USB C and feel you are all in on USB C because of it, good on you. That's where our opinions differ and there is no right/wrong answer. We agree on this though, a cutting edge monitor with a hub that maxes out at USB 2 speeds in the year 2017 is not for me, nor is it something I could recommend with a straight face.
How hard would it have been to include a USB-A ports as part of the monitor so we can plug in Apple's own USB devices?
or is this really just about USB thumb drives?
(I assume I'm the only person left alive who prefers wired mice and keyboards; I can't think of much else with non-replaceable cords)
In in the case of this 4K monitor, you are being fooled into believing you are getting USB C when in reality you are only getting USB 2 which is 2 generations back. Why should people have to go out and buy dongles and new cables when all that works with them is old or low specked devices.
The only mention of speakers on this display in the reviewer are that there simply are some. (??) The Thunderbolt display had great speakers for a monitor. Does this LG? This review leaves us guessing as to the quality to the speakers. I'm guessing they're pretty average if they didn't get reviewed?
And how are you supposed to FaceTime on a connected MacBook in desktop mode without a FaceTime camera?
Sure this display is cheaper than the Thunderbolt display but its also far less functional.
Apple, where is replacement for your now discontinued Thunderbolt display? This isn't it, despite your assertions.
If you can't see devices such as hard drives taking advantage of power over USB C to power the drive itself or that new devices will eventually state a USB 3 port as a minimum spec, I can't argue my point. I have no proof that this will happen other than past experience.
I completely understand the position some of you are stating but I feel my argument is also valid. So I'm not sure why people are attacking me or calling me "wrong" for my opinion. If you are okay with buying an expensive USB 2 hub and then buying dongles to run your old USB 2 devices and also believe near future devices won't lock you out, go for it. It's great deal. It's just not something I'm interested in dealing with on a brand new monitor and I'd spend a little more to get the 5k or look at a different brand completely.
"By transmitting video and data over USB-C, and not Thunderbolt 3, this does limit the capabilities of the 4K display somewhat. With less bandwidth available, the USB-C ports on the back of the monitor operate at USB 2.0 speeds --?slower than even the full-size USB 3.0 ports on Apple's 2015 MacBook Pro."
Only the three auxiliary ports are USB 2.0. The main input port is not. Here are the specs from Apple's page:
Display Size: 21.5-inch (diagonal) 4K display with IPS technology
Resolution: 4096-by-2304 with support for millions of colors
Brightness: 500 cd/m²
Color Gamut: P3 wide color gamut
Ports: One USB-C (input), three USB-C (USB 2, 480 Mbps)
http://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-38UC99-W-ultrawide-monitor
http://download.p4c.philips.com/files/b/bdm4350uc_27/bdm4350uc_27_pss_aenus.pdf
Be careful what you wish for. The big problem I see with Thunderbolt 3 are the very short cable lengths allowed while running at maximum speed. Most cables are only .5 meter. 1 meter cables are claimed to work, but anything longer and the speed drops in half, unless you run optical cables, if anyone makes them for USB-C.
I am a big fan of this display. Typically I have two ethernet connections, now both connected to the display, plus an outboard hard drive for Time Machine. I use one network bridged to Windows under VMware, the other to the Mac, plus Wifi. My older machine could do that, but with four extra cables hung off both sides of the MBP. Now the computer is smaller, and runs with just one cable carrying all those interfaces, AND power. Yes, USB 2.0 makes my gigabit ethernet adapter, and USB 3 hard drive top out at around 350 Mbps. But the convenience is just awesome! If that isn't enough, VMware allows Windows sound to be separately directed to the external display. Now if could just have the keyboard and mouse connections isolated as well. Oh well...