Apple loses mechanical engineer responsible for original MacBook Air enclosure to Tesla

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 52
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 1,457member
    The fact that Apple is losing employees to Tesla makes me think Project Titan has really been scaled back. 
    How do you know he was working on Titan?

    caliblastdoor
  • Reply 22 of 52

    lkrupp said:
    Once more commenters frantically looking for signs of Apple failure and extrapolating to apocalyptic proportions. Apple must fail, Apple must die, Steve is dead.
    What are you talking about? Nobody has said any such thing. Does your feed include posts that are missing from mine? If not, you may wanna get a brace for that knee... it seems to be jerking!
    Yesterday's comments very much beat the DOOM drum. As are the tweet discussions I've read and comments on The Loop.  And even on this thread one guy has already said he's selling his Apple stock.

    I agree with Spheric -- these guys were at Apple for a decade or more, change is normal. If you've ever left a job you know the jump you can make going to a different org is usually much bigger than you can make inside the same org. It's a fresh start and challenge. Change is good. These are just jobs, your family and life outside of work is what life is about, and you won't read about that online. 
    edited January 11 mark dodel
  • Reply 23 of 52
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 4,484member
    flaneur said:
    williamh said:

    Tesla CEO Elon Musk has dismissed reports of a brain-drain away from his company, and has called Apple the "Tesla Graveyard." Musk claims that Apple frequently hires engineers that "don't make it" an have been cast-off from the auto manufacturer.
    I'm afraid Musk may be right.  Jobs wasn't perfect but he was very competitive and took things personally. I think he'd try to hire the best Tesla people just to win. Musk isn't just trying to make money, he's playing to win.  Is Apple in the game? I love Apple stuff but I sold about 30% of my position yesterday. 
    "I'm afraid" is the operative phrase here.

    People who are habitually negative about post-Jobs Apple have a daddy complex. Losing their authority figures is a nagging anxiety wired in from childhood abandonment traumas. Note the shift to authority worship of Elon Musk on the part of these "Jobs would have" people.

    For details on this complex see The Mass Psychology of Fascism by Wilhelm Reich.
    So if any previous CEO is preferred in any company ever, this is an example of some kind of abandonment issues in childhood, and nascant fascist impulses?  Interesting theory. 
    holyoneNameo_
  • Reply 24 of 52
    I could see the appeal of wanting to join Tesla. A great case can be made for Tesla becoming very successful if you consider the synergy between EVs, powerwalls, and rooftoop solar installations. Like Apple, they're taking disparate technologies and businesses and making them work as one cohesive whole. The execution isn't exactly great, and the products not as refined as Apple's, but they still have a very compelling product portfolio.

    The typical acquisition targets people talk about for Apple are usually beyond absurd, but it may make a lot of sense for Apple to buy Tesla (assuming it's even an option). The places where Tesla is lacking is where Apple excels.
    baconstang
  • Reply 25 of 52
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 4,484member
    I could see the appeal of wanting to join Tesla. A great case can be made for Tesla becoming very successful if you consider the synergy between EVs, powerwalls, and rooftoop solar installations. Like Apple, they're taking disparate technologies and businesses and making them work as one cohesive whole. The execution isn't exactly great, and the products not as refined as Apple's, but they still have a very compelling product portfolio.

    The typical acquisition targets people talk about for Apple are usually beyond absurd, but it may make a lot of sense for Apple to buy Tesla (assuming it's even an option). The places where Tesla is lacking is where Apple excels.
    I think myself that Tesla is all hat and no cattle. 
    calicanukstormentropys
  • Reply 26 of 52
    coolfactorcoolfactor Posts: 1,006member
    flaneur said:

    People who are habitually negative about post-Jobs Apple have a daddy complex. Losing their authority figures is a nagging anxiety wired in from childhood abandonment traumas. Note the shift to authority worship of Elon Musk on the part of these "Jobs would have" people.

    For details on this complex see The Mass Psychology of Fascism by Wilhelm Reich.

    While I'm not saying your wrong, I think the problems with today's Apple go beyond this issue. Yes, Jobs is greatly admired, and Apple has tried to incorporate his values and principles to a great degree. But today's Apple has a certain arrogance about it that is very hard to ignore. They are making design decisions that fly in the face of common sense and practicality. Is it to push the envelope? Sure. But to castrate your main products, ignore others, and remove features that people actually use — all the while ignoring customer feedback, at least from the "small guy", it's really disheartening. This is the new Apple, and I don't like it.  It's not personable like it was under Jobs. It's a cold, corporate and money-seduced "machine". Maybe that will change when they reboot with their new campus.
    mainyehcavon b7farjamed
  • Reply 27 of 52
    flaneur said:
    williamh said:

    Tesla CEO Elon Musk has dismissed reports of a brain-drain away from his company, and has called Apple the "Tesla Graveyard." Musk claims that Apple frequently hires engineers that "don't make it" an have been cast-off from the auto manufacturer.
    I'm afraid Musk may be right.  Jobs wasn't perfect but he was very competitive and took things personally. I think he'd try to hire the best Tesla people just to win. Musk isn't just trying to make money, he's playing to win.  Is Apple in the game? I love Apple stuff but I sold about 30% of my position yesterday. 
    "I'm afraid" is the operative phrase here.

    People who are habitually negative about post-Jobs Apple have a daddy complex. Losing their authority figures is a nagging anxiety wired in from childhood abandonment traumas. Note the shift to authority worship of Elon Musk on the part of these "Jobs would have" people.

    For details on this complex see The Mass Psychology of Fascism by Wilhelm Reich.
    I'm not literally afraid.  Maybe concerned would be a better word.  Take your psycho-babble elsewhere. 
    Mikeymike
  • Reply 28 of 52
    williamh said:

    Tesla CEO Elon Musk has dismissed reports of a brain-drain away from his company, and has called Apple the "Tesla Graveyard." Musk claims that Apple frequently hires engineers that "don't make it" an have been cast-off from the auto manufacturer.
    I'm afraid Musk may be right.  Jobs wasn't perfect but he was very competitive and took things personally. I think he'd try to hire the best Tesla people just to win. Musk isn't just trying to make money, he's playing to win.  Is Apple in the game? I love Apple stuff but I sold about 30% of my position yesterday. 
    You can't win if you're not making money. Apple stock is a lot safer bet than Tesla's. 
    not buying Tesla stock. There are more than 2 to choose from. You're right that Apple is a safer bet. I had a large % of money in Apple and need to pare it down. It'll go up but other companies in other industries will go up more. 

    I bought Apple first in 1996. The best days were ahead.  Now they're behind.  There won't be 1000% gains in AAPL again. 
    edited January 11 avon b7baconstang
  • Reply 29 of 52
    lkrupp said:
    Once more commenters frantically looking for signs of Apple failure and extrapolating to apocalyptic proportions. Apple must fail, Apple must die, Steve is dead.

    What are you talking about? Nobody has said any such thing. Does your feed include posts that are missing from mine? If not, you may wanna get a brace for that knee... it seems to be jerking! ;)

    I certainly don't think Apple is failing but more like the fire is not really there. They make the best stuff and they'll continue to make great stuff.  But I ... am concerned... that they are not taking risks and we won't see great leaps forward. 
  • Reply 30 of 52
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 1,155member
    flaneur said:

    People who are habitually negative about post-Jobs Apple have a daddy complex. Losing their authority figures is a nagging anxiety wired in from childhood abandonment traumas. Note the shift to authority worship of Elon Musk on the part of these "Jobs would have" people.

    For details on this complex see The Mass Psychology of Fascism by Wilhelm Reich.

    While I'm not saying your wrong, I think the problems with today's Apple go beyond this issue. Yes, Jobs is greatly admired, and Apple has tried to incorporate his values and principles to a great degree. But today's Apple has a certain arrogance about it that is very hard to ignore. They are making design decisions that fly in the face of common sense and practicality. Is it to push the envelope? Sure. But to castrate your main products, ignore others, and remove features that people actually use — all the while ignoring customer feedback, at least from the "small guy", it's really disheartening. This is the new Apple, and I don't like it.  It's not personable like it was under Jobs. It's a cold, corporate and money-seduced "machine". Maybe that will change when they reboot with their new campus.
    "It's not personable like it was under Jobs."

    Actually, I find Tim's Apple more open and less secretive vs Steve Jobs Apple.
    roundaboutnowpalomine
  • Reply 31 of 52
    holyoneholyone Posts: 251member

    lkrupp said:
    Once more commenters frantically looking for signs of Apple failure and extrapolating to apocalyptic proportions. Apple must fail, Apple must die, Steve is dead.
    What are you talking about? Nobody has said any such thing. Does your feed include posts that are missing from mine? If not, you may wanna get a brace for that knee... it seems to be jerking!
    Yesterday's comments very much beat the DOOM drum. As are the tweet discussions I've read and comments on The Loop.  And even on this thread one guy has already said he's selling his Apple stock.

    I agree with Spheric -- these guys were at Apple for a decade or more, change is normal. If you've ever left a job you know the jump you can make going to a different org is usually much bigger than you can make inside the same org. It's a fresh start and challenge. Change is good. These are just jobs, your family and life outside of work is what life is about, and you won't read about that online. 
    Strange that people aren't as nonchalant and diss missive when the situation is reversed and Apple is the one poaching talent from other companies, I don't remember such a meh vibe when Tim gott Angela, or the numerous hires aimed at the current Apple rumor obsetion "Titan", but hey as long as Jony's still there, coz that, would break the Internet ;)
  • Reply 32 of 52
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 1,457member
    holyone said:

    lkrupp said:
    Once more commenters frantically looking for signs of Apple failure and extrapolating to apocalyptic proportions. Apple must fail, Apple must die, Steve is dead.
    What are you talking about? Nobody has said any such thing. Does your feed include posts that are missing from mine? If not, you may wanna get a brace for that knee... it seems to be jerking!
    Yesterday's comments very much beat the DOOM drum. As are the tweet discussions I've read and comments on The Loop.  And even on this thread one guy has already said he's selling his Apple stock.

    I agree with Spheric -- these guys were at Apple for a decade or more, change is normal. If you've ever left a job you know the jump you can make going to a different org is usually much bigger than you can make inside the same org. It's a fresh start and challenge. Change is good. These are just jobs, your family and life outside of work is what life is about, and you won't read about that online. 
    Strange that people aren't as nonchalant and diss missive when the situation is reversed and Apple is the one poaching talent from other companies, I don't remember such a meh vibe when Tim gott Angela, or the numerous hires aimed at the current Apple rumor obsetion "Titan", but hey as long as Jony's still there, coz that, would break the Internet ;)
    When Tim poached Angela, no one said Burberry was doomed. 


    baconstang
  • Reply 33 of 52
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 1,457member
    asdasd said:
    flaneur said:
    williamh said:

    Tesla CEO Elon Musk has dismissed reports of a brain-drain away from his company, and has called Apple the "Tesla Graveyard." Musk claims that Apple frequently hires engineers that "don't make it" an have been cast-off from the auto manufacturer.
    I'm afraid Musk may be right.  Jobs wasn't perfect but he was very competitive and took things personally. I think he'd try to hire the best Tesla people just to win. Musk isn't just trying to make money, he's playing to win.  Is Apple in the game? I love Apple stuff but I sold about 30% of my position yesterday. 
    "I'm afraid" is the operative phrase here.

    People who are habitually negative about post-Jobs Apple have a daddy complex. Losing their authority figures is a nagging anxiety wired in from childhood abandonment traumas. Note the shift to authority worship of Elon Musk on the part of these "Jobs would have" people.

    For details on this complex see The Mass Psychology of Fascism by Wilhelm Reich.
    So if any previous CEO is preferred in any company ever, this is an example of some kind of abandonment issues in childhood, and nascant fascist impulses?  Interesting theory. 
    Actually it makes perfect sense. Jobs is gone and these people simply hunt around and fixate on Musk  because he is more like Jobs than Cook is,  or wish Forstall would come back (probably because he went around dressed like Jobs). It's a cult of personalities. 

    It's the sad pathetic way they say 'Steve wouldn't have done that' or 'I miss Steve' like they actually knew the bloke. Pretending you know what he would do won't make you a bette person. 

    Yup, it makes perfect sense. 
    patchythepirate
  • Reply 34 of 52
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 656member

    flaneur said:
    williamh said:

    Tesla CEO Elon Musk has dismissed reports of a brain-drain away from his company, and has called Apple the "Tesla Graveyard." Musk claims that Apple frequently hires engineers that "don't make it" an have been cast-off from the auto manufacturer.
    I'm afraid Musk may be right.  Jobs wasn't perfect but he was very competitive and took things personally. I think he'd try to hire the best Tesla people just to win. Musk isn't just trying to make money, he's playing to win.  Is Apple in the game? I love Apple stuff but I sold about 30% of my position yesterday. 
    "I'm afraid" is the operative phrase here.

    People who are habitually negative about post-Jobs Apple have a daddy complex. Losing their authority figures is a nagging anxiety wired in from childhood abandonment traumas. Note the shift to authority worship of Elon Musk on the part of these "Jobs would have" people.

    For details on this complex see The Mass Psychology of Fascism by Wilhelm Reich.
    Very interesting hypothesis. I hadn't thought of that but it seems plausible. I find the hero worship of executives (and athletes and celebrities) pretty silly. They're just men and women and not super men. 
    Are you telling me Rob Halford isn't really God?

    baconstang
  • Reply 35 of 52
    This has nothing do to do with money or profit. This has nothing to do with whether product is incredible. 

    This has to do with competion and being at the innovative edge. 

    Rumors had it that Apple poached tesla employees, it's not important as to what for.  

    I also want to point out Amazon isn't profitable and neither is Facebook, so being profitable has nothing to do with it. Tesla in terms of software is pushing into a new frontier.  

    Apple on the other hand has started focusing on iPhones and iPads and Apple watches and stopped focusing on laptops and desktops and the software and such that goes with it as much 
  • Reply 36 of 52
    holyoneholyone Posts: 251member
    flaneur said:

    People who are habitually negative about post-Jobs Apple have a daddy complex. Losing their authority figures is a nagging anxiety wired in from childhood abandonment traumas. Note the shift to authority worship of Elon Musk on the part of these "Jobs would have" people.

    For details on this complex see The Mass Psychology of Fascism by Wilhelm Reich.

    While I'm not saying your wrong, I think the problems with today's Apple go beyond this issue. Yes, Jobs is greatly admired, and Apple has tried to incorporate his values and principles to a great degree. But today's Apple has a certain arrogance about it that is very hard to ignore. They are making design decisions that fly in the face of common sense and practicality. Is it to push the envelope? Sure. But to castrate your main products, ignore others, and remove features that people actually use — all the while ignoring customer feedback, at least from the "small guy", it's really disheartening. This is the new Apple, and I don't like it.  It's not personable like it was under Jobs. It's a cold, corporate and money-seduced "machine". Maybe that will change when they reboot with their new campus.
    It's the effects of being number one, it's really impossible for normal non special people (at Apple) not to be affected by the companies success, I mean if you were that rich how much crap would you really give ? As long as iPhone is making Apple all the money it needs there really is no need for change. Many people, especially companies, have been victims of their own success,including Apple, that it took one of the greatest visionaries of our time to bring it back from the brinks of extinction, he did so because he measured success independently to money, Apple has always measured a different kind of successes, one based on a simple but very challenging principle, the one responcible for us all conversing here like this, If you've been here long enough you would have noticed now how quick some are to bring up Apple cash machine to thwart any critism coz its gotten harder to just say "its Apple that means its the best coz it just works" befor you could say that without even having personally used the product and sadly many here fail to see that no amount of money can indefinitely shed Apple from arrogance and complacency, Apple faces zero threat from its current competion, but you'll never know what's around the conner, remember no one saw the iPhone coming, now many of those who didn't are extinct because they thought they were too big to fail. Just my 2c
    asdasd
  • Reply 37 of 52
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 4,536member
    flaneur said:

    People who are habitually negative about post-Jobs Apple have a daddy complex. Losing their authority figures is a nagging anxiety wired in from childhood abandonment traumas. Note the shift to authority worship of Elon Musk on the part of these "Jobs would have" people.

    For details on this complex see The Mass Psychology of Fascism by Wilhelm Reich.

    While I'm not saying your wrong, I think the problems with today's Apple go beyond this issue. Yes, Jobs is greatly admired, and Apple has tried to incorporate his values and principles to a great degree. But today's Apple has a certain arrogance about it that is very hard to ignore. They are making design decisions that fly in the face of common sense and practicality. Is it to push the envelope? Sure. But to castrate your main products, ignore others, and remove features that people actually use — all the while ignoring customer feedback, at least from the "small guy", it's really disheartening. This is the new Apple, and I don't like it.  It's not personable like it was under Jobs. It's a cold, corporate and money-seduced "machine". Maybe that will change when they reboot with their new campus.
    Oh baloney. 
  • Reply 38 of 52
    sog35 said:
    Tesla is the Apple graveyard.

    The place where washed up or failed Apple employees go to make their final big paycheck
    Chris Lattner wasn't failed or washed up. He was one of Apple's best and brightest. As for the other two that left in the last couple of days, I don't know enough about them.

    Chris' project had come to a state of maturity. The same with LLVM/Clang. For him to move on to new opportunities like the AI that he wasn't overseeing at Apple makes sense.

    New opportunities for him. Lest people forget, there was several Tesla employees who bailed and signed on with Apple the past 18 months.
    baconstangpatchythepirate
  • Reply 39 of 52

    While I'm not saying your wrong, I think the problems with today's Apple go beyond this issue. Yes, Jobs is greatly admired, and Apple has tried to incorporate his values and principles to a great degree. But today's Apple has a certain arrogance about it that is very hard to ignore. They are making design decisions that fly in the face of common sense and practicality. Is it to push the envelope? Sure. But to castrate your main products, ignore others, and remove features that people actually use — all the while ignoring customer feedback, at least from the "small guy", it's really disheartening. This is the new Apple, and I don't like it.  It's not personable like it was under Jobs. It's a cold, corporate and money-seduced "machine". Maybe that will change when they reboot with their new campus.
    May I remind you: jobs was the one to say people don't know what they want until you show if to them. Jobs was also the one to ditch floppy drives and disk drives and cd drives all legacy products people used when he made the choice.  Steve would have made the same decision with the 3.5" headphone jack. He would of just had a better marketing reason probably or maybe not even one at all.  

    Steve himself was arrogant, so to say Apple is more arrogant now is essentially not recognizing Steve was to begin with.  

    Stevw was brilliant at marketing.  Arrogant though 
    edited January 11
  • Reply 40 of 52
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 4,484member
    Rayz2016 said:
    asdasd said:
    flaneur said:
    williamh said:

    Tesla CEO Elon Musk has dismissed reports of a brain-drain away from his company, and has called Apple the "Tesla Graveyard." Musk claims that Apple frequently hires engineers that "don't make it" an have been cast-off from the auto manufacturer.
    I'm afraid Musk may be right.  Jobs wasn't perfect but he was very competitive and took things personally. I think he'd try to hire the best Tesla people just to win. Musk isn't just trying to make money, he's playing to win.  Is Apple in the game? I love Apple stuff but I sold about 30% of my position yesterday. 
    "I'm afraid" is the operative phrase here.

    People who are habitually negative about post-Jobs Apple have a daddy complex. Losing their authority figures is a nagging anxiety wired in from childhood abandonment traumas. Note the shift to authority worship of Elon Musk on the part of these "Jobs would have" people.

    For details on this complex see The Mass Psychology of Fascism by Wilhelm Reich.
    So if any previous CEO is preferred in any company ever, this is an example of some kind of abandonment issues in childhood, and nascant fascist impulses?  Interesting theory. 
    Actually it makes perfect sense. Jobs is gone and these people simply hunt around and fixate on Musk  because he is more like Jobs than Cook is,  or wish Forstall would come back (probably because he went around dressed like Jobs). It's a cult of personalities. 

    It's the sad pathetic way they say 'Steve wouldn't have done that' or 'I miss Steve' like they actually knew the bloke. Pretending you know what he would do won't make you a bette person. 

    Yup, it makes perfect sense. 
    It's nonsense. Basically you and Flaneur are accusing anybody criticising Cook or comparing him unfavourably to Jobs as fascists. Fascists with abandonment issues to boot. I've criticised jobs' Apple and Cook's Apple, and complimented both. 

    Funny enough I think it works the other way : there's an authoritarian ideology to opposing criticising the existing CEO similar to the way people reacted to the death of old communist leaders. New leader good. Old leader bad. 


    Scott Forstall seems to be in the position of Trotsky when he fell from grace.  Despised by the remaining faithful despite bring liked when he was in the company. And clearly he's been silenced so that's kind of an airbrushing of history, with new histories crediting Fadell with the iPhone (but his version was rejected). 
    holyoneentropys
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