Apple loses mechanical engineer responsible for original MacBook Air enclosure to Tesla

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 52
    asdasd said:
    I could see the appeal of wanting to join Tesla. A great case can be made for Tesla becoming very successful if you consider the synergy between EVs, powerwalls, and rooftoop solar installations. Like Apple, they're taking disparate technologies and businesses and making them work as one cohesive whole. The execution isn't exactly great, and the products not as refined as Apple's, but they still have a very compelling product portfolio.

    The typical acquisition targets people talk about for Apple are usually beyond absurd, but it may make a lot of sense for Apple to buy Tesla (assuming it's even an option). The places where Tesla is lacking is where Apple excels.
    I think myself that Tesla is all hat and no cattle. 
    That does seem to be the case right now, but that also seems like all the more reason for Apple to come in and beef up the herd, no? I'm sure there's a lot of factors that I'm not privy to, but a Tesla acquisition makes more sense to me than pretty much all the others I hear about.
    asdasdbaconstangpropod
  • Reply 42 of 52
    holyoneholyone Posts: 251member
    Rayz2016 said:
    holyone said:

    lkrupp said:
    Once more commenters frantically looking for signs of Apple failure and extrapolating to apocalyptic proportions. Apple must fail, Apple must die, Steve is dead.
    What are you talking about? Nobody has said any such thing. Does your feed include posts that are missing from mine? If not, you may wanna get a brace for that knee... it seems to be jerking!
    Yesterday's comments very much beat the DOOM drum. As are the tweet discussions I've read and comments on The Loop.  And even on this thread one guy has already said he's selling his Apple stock.

    I agree with Spheric -- these guys were at Apple for a decade or more, change is normal. If you've ever left a job you know the jump you can make going to a different org is usually much bigger than you can make inside the same org. It's a fresh start and challenge. Change is good. These are just jobs, your family and life outside of work is what life is about, and you won't read about that online. 
    Strange that people aren't as nonchalant and diss missive when the situation is reversed and Apple is the one poaching talent from other companies, I don't remember such a meh vibe when Tim gott Angela, or the numerous hires aimed at the current Apple rumor obsetion "Titan", but hey as long as Jony's still there, coz that, would break the Internet ;)
    When Tim poached Angela, no one said Burberry was doomed. 


    But was it never felt that she was a good snatch up ? As I'm sure this fellow is for Tesla, maybe he'd done all he could at Apple and it was just time or maybe there are deeper issues at Apple that made him leave, when Angela left Buberry she was moving up to a bigger and better opportunity, Apple shouldn't be loosing even cleaning staff to any company solely because they are best and the most rewarding working environment that challenges employees and brings out the best in them, everyone there should be excited to wake up in the morning, not because you're going to be having it easy but because yore going to have a tough time reaching for greatness you cant see but don't doubt for a second that its there, and that in the end it'll be a rewarding time coz that's what changing the world feels like, when you finally reach haven the last thing you think is " wonder if there's any place better ?" , the only reason any sane person would leave the most successful company is boredom any no challenge, to be honest I really dislike Musk but I cant deny the guy exudes excitement and wonder, like a young Jobs just with out all the humbling giftedness, but the drive is definitely there though, so can't fault the ship jumpers
  • Reply 43 of 52
    glynh said:
    Matt Casebolt, one of Apple's key hinge designers
    Fantastic...you just couldn't make up a name like that for a role like that! :)
    At work they called him "The King of Swing".
    holyone
  • Reply 44 of 52
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 646member
    If you take risks you will fail at some things and get lucky with others. If you can make people forget your failures and remember your successes you are on the right track. If your successes also happen at the right time, you get more points.

    However, in addition to the above you also have to surround yourself with the right people and risk and timing come into play again.

    Jobs had Avie, Jony, the two Freds etc and got lucky when it came to making people forget his failures.

    Personally, I think much of what came to be at Apple was down to Avie. If there is an unsung hero here, it is him. His work was fundamental in laying the foundation of what came later.
  • Reply 45 of 52
    holyoneholyone Posts: 251member
    asdasd said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    asdasd said:
    flaneur said:
    williamh said:

    Tesla CEO Elon Musk has dismissed reports of a brain-drain away from his company, and has called Apple the "Tesla Graveyard." Musk claims that Apple frequently hires engineers that "don't make it" an have been cast-off from the auto manufacturer.
    I'm afraid Musk may be right.  Jobs wasn't perfect but he was very competitive and took things personally. I think he'd try to hire the best Tesla people just to win. Musk isn't just trying to make money, he's playing to win.  Is Apple in the game? I love Apple stuff but I sold about 30% of my position yesterday. 
    "I'm afraid" is the operative phrase here.

    People who are habitually negative about post-Jobs Apple have a daddy complex. Losing their authority figures is a nagging anxiety wired in from childhood abandonment traumas. Note the shift to authority worship of Elon Musk on the part of these "Jobs would have" people.

    For details on this complex see The Mass Psychology of Fascism by Wilhelm Reich.
    So if any previous CEO is preferred in any company ever, this is an example of some kind of abandonment issues in childhood, and nascant fascist impulses?  Interesting theory. 
    Actually it makes perfect sense. Jobs is gone and these people simply hunt around and fixate on Musk  because he is more like Jobs than Cook is,  or wish Forstall would come back (probably because he went around dressed like Jobs). It's a cult of personalities. 

    It's the sad pathetic way they say 'Steve wouldn't have done that' or 'I miss Steve' like they actually knew the bloke. Pretending you know what he would do won't make you a bette person. 

    Yup, it makes perfect sense. 
    It's nonsense. Basically you and Flaneur are accusing anybody criticising Cook or comparing him unfavourably to Jobs as fascists. Fascists with abandonment issues to boot. I've criticised jobs' Apple and Cook's Apple, and complimented both. 

    Funny enough I think it works the other way : there's an authoritarian ideology to opposing criticising the existing CEO similar to the way people reacted to the death of old communist leaders. New leader good. Old leader bad. 


    Scott Forstall seems to be in the position of Trotsky when he fell from grace.  Despised by the remaining faithful despite bring liked when he was in the company. And clearly he's been silenced so that's kind of an airbrushing of history, with new histories crediting Fadell with the iPhone (but his version was rejected). 
    Very true Apple now to me feels like its ran by a group of very cheery holly-jolly friend going to camp trips and karaoke rather than the ensemble of the best in class most talented working people in SV, talent should always come befor personableness and should be retained or descarded based on results not frendship
  • Reply 46 of 52
    holyoneholyone Posts: 251member
    avon b7 said:
    If you take risks you will fail at some things and get lucky with others. If you can make people forget your failures and remember your successes you are on the right track. If your successes also happen at the right time, you get more points.

    However, in addition to the above you also have to surround yourself with the right people and risk and timing come into play again.

    Jobs had Avie, Jony, the two Freds etc and got lucky when it came to making people forget his failures.

    Personally, I think much of what came to be at Apple was down to Avie. If there is an unsung hero here, it is him. His work was fundamental in laying the foundation of what came later.
    Don't forget the distortion field, very important, talent with out the right leadership is wasted and eventually leaves for greener fields
    baconstang
  • Reply 47 of 52
    holyone said:
    asdasd said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    asdasd said:
    flaneur said:
    williamh said:

    Tesla CEO Elon Musk has dismissed reports of a brain-drain away from his company, and has called Apple the "Tesla Graveyard." Musk claims that Apple frequently hires engineers that "don't make it" an have been cast-off from the auto manufacturer.
    I'm afraid Musk may be right.  Jobs wasn't perfect but he was very competitive and took things personally. I think he'd try to hire the best Tesla people just to win. Musk isn't just trying to make money, he's playing to win.  Is Apple in the game? I love Apple stuff but I sold about 30% of my position yesterday. 
    "I'm afraid" is the operative phrase here.

    People who are habitually negative about post-Jobs Apple have a daddy complex. Losing their authority figures is a nagging anxiety wired in from childhood abandonment traumas. Note the shift to authority worship of Elon Musk on the part of these "Jobs would have" people.

    For details on this complex see The Mass Psychology of Fascism by Wilhelm Reich.
    So if any previous CEO is preferred in any company ever, this is an example of some kind of abandonment issues in childhood, and nascant fascist impulses?  Interesting theory. 
    Actually it makes perfect sense. Jobs is gone and these people simply hunt around and fixate on Musk  because he is more like Jobs than Cook is,  or wish Forstall would come back (probably because he went around dressed like Jobs). It's a cult of personalities. 

    It's the sad pathetic way they say 'Steve wouldn't have done that' or 'I miss Steve' like they actually knew the bloke. Pretending you know what he would do won't make you a bette person. 

    Yup, it makes perfect sense. 
    It's nonsense. Basically you and Flaneur are accusing anybody criticising Cook or comparing him unfavourably to Jobs as fascists. Fascists with abandonment issues to boot. I've criticised jobs' Apple and Cook's Apple, and complimented both. 

    Funny enough I think it works the other way : there's an authoritarian ideology to opposing criticising the existing CEO similar to the way people reacted to the death of old communist leaders. New leader good. Old leader bad. 


    Scott Forstall seems to be in the position of Trotsky when he fell from grace.  Despised by the remaining faithful despite bring liked when he was in the company. And clearly he's been silenced so that's kind of an airbrushing of history, with new histories crediting Fadell with the iPhone (but his version was rejected). 
    Very true Apple now to me feels like its ran by a group of very cheery holly-jolly friend going to camp trips and karaoke rather than the ensemble of the best in class most talented working people in SV, talent should always come befor personableness and should be retained or descarded based on results not frendship
    Everyone in executive leadership with the exception of Angel Ahrendts was there when Jobs was around. In fact most were put in leasership positions by Jobs.
  • Reply 48 of 52
    Yesterday's comments very much beat the DOOM drum.
    I honestly don't understand which of the five posts prior to @lkrupp's complaint are considered "doom" themed. I just went back and looked again, and I really don't see it. I think he may be seeing enemies where none exist.

    Or maybe my reading comprehension is poor. That's possible.


    As are the tweet discussions I've read and comments on The Loop. 
    Maybe that was what he meant, because the comments here, up to the point of his complaint, didn't strike me as doomy.


    And even on this thread one guy has already said he's selling his Apple stock.
    That comment came later in the thread, AFTER @lkrupp's remark. And he didn't say Apple is doomed, he said (1) he had a disproportionate amount of money invested there and (2) that he can realize greater growth elsewhere, so (3) he sold 30% of his Apple stock -- not all of it. One may hold the opinion that Apple is in a period of relative coasting or even decline without saying or meaning that it's time to board up the windows.

    The quality of the discussions here has really improved over the last few months. The pointless insults that contribute nothing and discourage critical evaluation are on the decline, and there's been a lot more actual information about user experience being shared. I'd like to see that continue and not slide back to the nyah nyah poopy head stuff, that's all.

    BTW, I consider you one of the good posters, even if/when I may not necessarily share your views.
    roundaboutnowavon b7
  • Reply 49 of 52
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 646member
    holyone said:
    avon b7 said:
    If you take risks you will fail at some things and get lucky with others. If you can make people forget your failures and remember your successes you are on the right track. If your successes also happen at the right time, you get more points.

    However, in addition to the above you also have to surround yourself with the right people and risk and timing come into play again.

    Jobs had Avie, Jony, the two Freds etc and got lucky when it came to making people forget his failures.

    Personally, I think much of what came to be at Apple was down to Avie. If there is an unsung hero here, it is him. His work was fundamental in laying the foundation of what came later.
    Don't forget the distortion field, very important, talent with out the right leadership is wasted and eventually leaves for greener fields
    Yep. I used to look forward to the keynotes. Now, as soon as I see Tim Cook or Jony Ive on camera, I have a Red Bull to stop me falling asleep and missing the rest.
  • Reply 50 of 52
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,317member
    asdasd said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    asdasd said:
    flaneur said:
    williamh said:

    Tesla CEO Elon Musk has dismissed reports of a brain-drain away from his company, and has called Apple the "Tesla Graveyard." Musk claims that Apple frequently hires engineers that "don't make it" an have been cast-off from the auto manufacturer.
    I'm afraid Musk may be right.  Jobs wasn't perfect but he was very competitive and took things personally. I think he'd try to hire the best Tesla people just to win. Musk isn't just trying to make money, he's playing to win.  Is Apple in the game? I love Apple stuff but I sold about 30% of my position yesterday. 
    "I'm afraid" is the operative phrase here.

    People who are habitually negative about post-Jobs Apple have a daddy complex. Losing their authority figures is a nagging anxiety wired in from childhood abandonment traumas. Note the shift to authority worship of Elon Musk on the part of these "Jobs would have" people.

    For details on this complex see The Mass Psychology of Fascism by Wilhelm Reich.
    So if any previous CEO is preferred in any company ever, this is an example of some kind of abandonment issues in childhood, and nascant fascist impulses?  Interesting theory. 
    Actually it makes perfect sense. Jobs is gone and these people simply hunt around and fixate on Musk  because he is more like Jobs than Cook is,  or wish Forstall would come back (probably because he went around dressed like Jobs). It's a cult of personalities. 

    It's the sad pathetic way they say 'Steve wouldn't have done that' or 'I miss Steve' like they actually knew the bloke. Pretending you know what he would do won't make you a bette person. 

    Yup, it makes perfect sense. 
    It's nonsense. Basically you and Flaneur are accusing anybody criticising Cook or comparing him unfavourably to Jobs as fascists. Fascists with abandonment issues to boot. I've criticised jobs' Apple and Cook's Apple, and complimented both. 

    Funny enough I think it works the other way : there's an authoritarian ideology to opposing criticising the existing CEO similar to the way people reacted to the death of old communist leaders. New leader good. Old leader bad. 


    Scott Forstall seems to be in the position of Trotsky when he fell from grace.  Despised by the remaining faithful despite bring liked when he was in the company. And clearly he's been silenced so that's kind of an airbrushing of history, with new histories crediting Fadell with the iPhone (but his version was rejected). 
    No, I mean that the irrational and constant refrain that Apple has lost its way without Jobs is a cult of personality, and Elon Musk attracts the same cultists. They worry that the loss of the leader will emasculate the enterprise, and so they can't recognize that the leader assembled a team that operates under a philosophy or ideology that can sustain the project of the enterprise as long as the ideas are held in focus. 

    The new MacBook Pros, the AirPods, the two-camera 7 Plus and its image processing are as good as anything Apple has ever done,, but the personality worshippers consistently fail to see this because they *a priori* believe that Tim Cook is not a product guy, therefore they doubt that Apple is producing as well as it was under Jobs. This is balony, as iKrupp says.

    The most extreme form of personality worship can be found in Fascist societies, which is why Wilhelm Reich is the best guide to the origin of this authority or personality worship. (As a German psychiatrist, he witnessed and diagnosed the rise of Hitler.) But it also shows up in weaker forms, like the quasi- or proto-fascist thing we're just now living through in the Western "democracies," as the rug is pulled out from the masses who depend on the old order for their sense of security and self-worth. This loss turns them toward "strong men," populists and hucksters, personalties who will lead them back to security, in the case of the US, to the return of security in "making America great again."

    The Steve Jobs or Elon Musk version of all this is a milder form of authority worship, but the origin is the same — people who can't see the power of ideas but instead place their faith in a leader. Reich found the roots of this character flaw in the authoritarian family.

    Here's a counter example that illustrates the flaw of personality thinking: Ferdinand Porsche designs a small car for the masses that incorporates many novel solutions for driveability, economy, manufacturability and, it so happens, lovability. Hitler recognizes all this and he co-opts the car and makes it into a peoples' car, the Volkswagen, as a prize to the masses for their obedience to the Reich.

    After the war, Hitler is dead and Porsche is imprisoned by the French as a war criminal. But the Volkswagen continues on under the British occupiers and then under Heinz Nordhoff, a former GM Opel executive. The car continues improving and it becomes the most popular car ever made across the world for 40 years, basically the same design. In other words, the ideas and the design were much more powerful than the leaders behind the inception of the car.

    The reason all this is so long is that I'm trying to work this puzzle out for myself. The post-Jobs doom scenario is the most irritating formula that we see floated in these discussions, in my and many others' opinions. I think Jobs's ideas are far more powerful than he was as a personality, and apparently Cook and crew know this, thus the company's continuing monumental success across the world.


    edited January 12 propod
  • Reply 51 of 52

    Does Apple gag new hires? Do we know how many people are jumping from Tesla to Apple? There was a story a year or so back right?

    Maybe Apple is pulling a "Microsoft" on Tesla. Get employees to join Tesla and then destroy it from the inside!!

  • Reply 52 of 52
    mazda 3s said:
    Maybe he can fix those Falcon Wing doors on the Model X :)
    The Falcon Wing Doors on my Model X work very well.  No fix required.  
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