As legal spat with Apple continues, Qualcomm teases ultra-fast 1.2Gbps LTE mobile chips

AppleInsiderAppleInsider
Posted:
in iPhone
Apple supplier Qualcomm on Tuesday revealed a new LTE modem, the Snapdragon X20, which could push the limits of the cellular technology and theoretically appear in a 2018 iPhone --?if the chipmaker and Apple can get along.




Under ideal conditions the modem can hit downloads up to 1.2 gigabits per second, 20 percent faster than the X16, Qualcomm said. The speed boost was achieved with new carrier aggregation technology pulling in 12 data streams, each up to 100 megabits per second. Upload speeds are significantly slower, but still go up to 150 megabits per second.

Qualcomm is also promising high-quality calls on dual-SIM phones, and support for the 3.5-gigahertz band used by the Citizens Broadband Radio Service, in theory allowing use with private LTE networks.

The X20 is expected to ship in the first half of 2018, which could give Apple enough time to build it into iPhones shipping that fall -- if the company expects to continue business with Qualcomm.

Last month it filed a lawsuit against Qualcomm, accusing the latter of withholding almost $1 billion in payments as punishment for cooperating with an investigation by the Korean government, which ultimately led to an $854 million fine. Apple further suggested that Qualcomm is abusing its market position to charge high royalties on standards-essential patents.

Apple is using Intel modems in GSM versions of the iPhone 7 however, and could conceivably divert orders away from Qualcomm if Intel can produce a comparable GSM/CDMA chip.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 32
    dws-2dws-2 Posts: 276member
    I'm glad that it's 20% faster, but I wonder how much faster it will be in real-world conditions. For example, is it faster in weak signal areas? Is it faster when the network is congested?
    jbdragon
  • Reply 2 of 32
    JoeMurphyJrJoeMurphyJr Posts: 8member
    The speed boost was achieved with new carrier aggregation technology pulling in 12 data streams, each up to 100 megabits per second. Upload speeds are significantly slower, but still go up to 150 megabits per second.
    i don't see the urgency in Qualcomm and Apple settling some dispute to get their hands on an LTE modem that can only hit theoretical speeds in a controlled lab environment. 2-3 way carrier aggregation is a fairly new concept, let alone the idea of 12 carrier aggregation. You won't see anything close to 1.2 Gbps in the real world.

    The industry is more preoccupied with 5G as the new shiny technology to tout even faster (lab, not real world) speeds. Intel just came out a 5G capable modem, although it will be a couple years before we ever see it in a smart phone.
    jbdragonbrakken
  • Reply 3 of 32
    paul turnerpaul turner Posts: 222member
    Apple tries to force its suppliers to reduce prices, which is fine, but what is not fine is it charges so much for it stuff to us. Hypocrisy. Can dish it out, but can't be on recieving end of its own tactics. Good for QCOM
  • Reply 4 of 32
    paul turnerpaul turner Posts: 222member
    "Qualcomm is abusing its market position to charge high royalties on standards-essential patents"

    And Apple doesn't abuse it own market position of course!
    Roger_Fingas
  • Reply 5 of 32
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,808member
    paul turner said:
    Apple tries to force its suppliers to reduce prices, which is fine, but what is not fine is it charges so much for it stuff to us. Hypocrisy. Can dish it out, but can't be on recieving end of its own tactics. Good for QCOM
    Bullshit! When you buy say an iPhone, you're getting more than just an iPhone. You're also getting FREE iCloud accounts, FREE iOS updates, FREE iWork apps, FREE iMovie/Garageband, and Photo apps. Plus, you're getting pretty damn good service and a pretty damn good quality phone. If you want cheaper, go ahead and get it and you'll get exactly what you pay for. The same goes for a Mac. 
    fotoformatwilliamhmwhitelkruppStrangeDaysradarthekatjbdragondavenpscooter63brakken
  • Reply 6 of 32
    jack zahranjack zahran Posts: 35member
    It's important to note that Qualcomm is projecting this Modem for 2018 delivery. Intel's new 14NM Cat 16 LTE modem is for 2nd half of 2017 with theoretical 1Gb/s Down / 225Mb/s Up. Intel has already produced Silicon to test with. And, to take advantage of let's say T-Mobile's 300Mb/s down in NYC you would need a 4X4 MIMO antenna in your phone, and that really doesn't exist in that small form factor. An iPad would be a better target. So right now, 4X2 MIMO is really the best you can get on a mobile phone for 150Mb/s down. That's pretty great and realistic in and of itself. Be careful of the marketing wars going on right now.
    radarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 32
    charlesatlascharlesatlas Posts: 398member
    How long would one be able to use this kind of speed before the cell service providers start throttling you under the terms of their "unlimited" plans?
    radarthekattallest skilpscooter63watto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 8 of 32
    macseekermacseeker Posts: 545member
    I wish they would leave the 3.5 GHz band alone.  Especially from 3.4 to 3.7 GHz.  It's used in C-Band satellite transmissions.
  • Reply 9 of 32
    seankillseankill Posts: 566member
    sog35 said:
    paul turner said:
    Apple tries to force its suppliers to reduce prices, which is fine, but what is not fine is it charges so much for it stuff to us. Hypocrisy. Can dish it out, but can't be on recieving end of its own tactics. Good for QCOM
    No is forcing you or anyone to buy Apple products.

    I think his point is Apple is trying to force QCOM to sell to them, cheaper. No one is force Apple to buy QCOM modems would be the counter argument.......
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 32
    Jdmr1701Jdmr1701 Posts: 8unconfirmed, member
    sog35 said:
    paul turner said:
    Apple tries to force its suppliers to reduce prices, which is fine, but what is not fine is it charges so much for it stuff to us. Hypocrisy. Can dish it out, but can't be on recieving end of its own tactics. Good for QCOM
    No is forcing you or anyone to buy Apple products.
    ^^^Exactly^^^ Paul, not doubt Apple makes literally tons of money in profits every quarter. They use the money to boost stock prices with buy backs (whether that is good or bad) but also dumps countless dollars into data centers (which it is building themselves due in part to privacy concerns from governments), R&D, as well as design and parts. When iFixIt says the parts to build an iPhone only come out to lets say $250, for some reason everyone things it shouldn't cost more than say $300 for the phone. BUT in order for Apple to have some of the best engineers, designers, and coders they NEED to pay these people, otherwise they go to Google or Tesla, which happens. R&D of new tech and new products is NOT CHEAP. You often get what you pay for and on grand scale what Apple charges for their products is not outside the same price range of other manufacturers. Yes there are cheaper phones, and computers, but a person pays more for a BMW or Audi, Tesla, or "X" Luxury car because more goes into it, and you expect more out of it. A person could also buy a Toyota Yaris if they don't care, have the money for a BMW, or EVEN LIKES and PREFERS the Yaris. Full disclosure I drive a cheap Yaris. :)
    StrangeDaysradarthekatdoozydozenpscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 32
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    paul turner said:
    Apple tries to force its suppliers to reduce prices, which is fine, but what is not fine is it charges so much for it stuff to us. Hypocrisy. Can dish it out, but can't be on recieving end of its own tactics. Good for QCOM
    Oh just blow it out your... never mind.
    StrangeDaysmacxpresspscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 32
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,694member
    JoeMurphyJr said:
    The speed boost was achieved with new carrier aggregation technology pulling in 12 data streams, each up to 100 megabits per second. Upload speeds are significantly slower, but still go up to 150 megabits per second.
    i don't see the urgency in Qualcomm and Apple settling some dispute to get their hands on an LTE modem that can only hit theoretical speeds in a controlled lab environment. 2-3 way carrier aggregation is a fairly new concept, let alone the idea of 12 carrier aggregation. You won't see anything close to 1.2 Gbps in the real world.

    The industry is more preoccupied with 5G as the new shiny technology to tout even faster (lab, not real world) speeds. Intel just came out a 5G capable modem, although it will be a couple years before we ever see it in a smart phone.
    Agreed. Intel has been teasing 5G announcements for MWC next week. Expect Intel and Huawei to have something to show. Some collaborative work.
  • Reply 13 of 32
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,694member
    Jdmr1701 said:
    sog35 said:
    Apple tries to force its suppliers to reduce prices, which is fine, but what is not fine is it charges so much for it stuff to us. Hypocrisy. Can dish it out, but can't be on recieving end of its own tactics. Good for QCOM
    No is forcing you or anyone to buy Apple products.
    ^^^Exactly^^^ Paul, not doubt Apple makes literally tons of money in profits every quarter. They use the money to boost stock prices with buy backs (whether that is good or bad) but also dumps countless dollars into data centers (which it is building themselves due in part to privacy concerns from governments), R&D, as well as design and parts. When iFixIt says the parts to build an iPhone only come out to lets say $250, for some reason everyone things it shouldn't cost more than say $300 for the phone. BUT in order for Apple to have some of the best engineers, designers, and coders they NEED to pay these people, otherwise they go to Google or Tesla, which happens. R&D of new tech and new products is NOT CHEAP. You often get what you pay for and on grand scale what Apple charges for their products is not outside the same price range of other manufacturers. Yes there are cheaper phones, and computers, but a person pays more for a BMW or Audi, Tesla, or "X" Luxury car because more goes into it, and you expect more out of it. A person could also buy a Toyota Yaris if they don't care, have the money for a BMW, or EVEN LIKES and PREFERS the Yaris. Full disclosure I drive a cheap Yaris. :)
    Something wrong here. Yes. R&D is expensive. And wages. But Apple has somehow managed to amass around 250 billion dollars in cash in ten years. After taxes and wages and R&D. There seems to be plenty of room for lower prices.
    edited February 2017
  • Reply 14 of 32
    wood1208wood1208 Posts: 2,913member
    If your cellular network can't support faster speed due to congestion than what's point of faster speed ability on phone ? I have problem using current LTE speed especially in morning and evening.
    jbdragon
  • Reply 15 of 32
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,881member
    Apple tries to force its suppliers to reduce prices, which is fine, but what is not fine is it charges so much for it stuff to us. Hypocrisy. Can dish it out, but can't be on recieving end of its own tactics. Good for QCOM
    What in god's name are you talking about? The price of iPhones? They're the high-end devices in the market. Similar or same prices as high end Samsung and Google phones. There's nothing "hypocritical" about being priced in the high-end even while negotiating for lower component costs, and to balk at inappropriate licensing terms. That's just good business.
    edited February 2017 radarthekatjbdragonpscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 32
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,881member

    paul turner said:
    "Qualcomm is abusing its market position to charge high royalties on standards-essential patents"

    And Apple doesn't abuse it own market position of course!
    Before I write this off as nonsense trolling, can you explain your claim? How is Apple abusing its minority market share? Be specific. 
    radarthekatjbdragonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 32
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,881member

    seankill said:
    sog35 said:
    paul turner said:
    Apple tries to force its suppliers to reduce prices, which is fine, but what is not fine is it charges so much for it stuff to us. Hypocrisy. Can dish it out, but can't be on recieving end of its own tactics. Good for QCOM
    No is forcing you or anyone to buy Apple products.

    I think his point is Apple is trying to force QCOM to sell to them, cheaper. No one is force Apple to buy QCOM modems would be the counter argument.......
    That doesn't mean they shouldn't challenge what they believe should be FRAND licensing terms. As Cook said, it makes no sense for a furniture company to charge more for a sofa if it's going in a more expensive house than a less expensive one. As a business Apple should absolutely challenge this.
    radarthekatjbdragonpscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 32
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,881member
    avon b7 said:
    Jdmr1701 said:
    sog35 said:
    Apple tries to force its suppliers to reduce prices, which is fine, but what is not fine is it charges so much for it stuff to us. Hypocrisy. Can dish it out, but can't be on recieving end of its own tactics. Good for QCOM
    No is forcing you or anyone to buy Apple products.
    ^^^Exactly^^^ Paul, not doubt Apple makes literally tons of money in profits every quarter. They use the money to boost stock prices with buy backs (whether that is good or bad) but also dumps countless dollars into data centers (which it is building themselves due in part to privacy concerns from governments), R&D, as well as design and parts. When iFixIt says the parts to build an iPhone only come out to lets say $250, for some reason everyone things it shouldn't cost more than say $300 for the phone. BUT in order for Apple to have some of the best engineers, designers, and coders they NEED to pay these people, otherwise they go to Google or Tesla, which happens. R&D of new tech and new products is NOT CHEAP. You often get what you pay for and on grand scale what Apple charges for their products is not outside the same price range of other manufacturers. Yes there are cheaper phones, and computers, but a person pays more for a BMW or Audi, Tesla, or "X" Luxury car because more goes into it, and you expect more out of it. A person could also buy a Toyota Yaris if they don't care, have the money for a BMW, or EVEN LIKES and PREFERS the Yaris. Full disclosure I drive a cheap Yaris. :)
    Something wrong here. Yes. R&D is expensive. And wages. But Apple has somehow managed to amass around 250 billion dollars in cash in ten years. After taxes and wages and R&D. There seems to be plenty of room for lower prices.
    Something is "wrong" because Apple has a runaway hit and is successful? That's absurd. The iPhone is the most successful single product in human history -- why shouldn't their bank account get bigger? A product is worth what people will pay for it. iPhone and high-end Samsungs and Google phones all cost about the same. Is something wrong with them too? Or just Apple, because they're doing better?
    edited February 2017 radarthekatSolipscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 32
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    StrangeDays said:
    avon b7 said:
    Jdmr1701 said:
    sog35 said:
    Apple tries to force its suppliers to reduce prices, which is fine, but what is not fine is it charges so much for it stuff to us. Hypocrisy. Can dish it out, but can't be on recieving end of its own tactics. Good for QCOM
    No is forcing you or anyone to buy Apple products.
    ^^^Exactly^^^ Paul, not doubt Apple makes literally tons of money in profits every quarter. They use the money to boost stock prices with buy backs (whether that is good or bad) but also dumps countless dollars into data centers (which it is building themselves due in part to privacy concerns from governments), R&D, as well as design and parts. When iFixIt says the parts to build an iPhone only come out to lets say $250, for some reason everyone things it shouldn't cost more than say $300 for the phone. BUT in order for Apple to have some of the best engineers, designers, and coders they NEED to pay these people, otherwise they go to Google or Tesla, which happens. R&D of new tech and new products is NOT CHEAP. You often get what you pay for and on grand scale what Apple charges for their products is not outside the same price range of other manufacturers. Yes there are cheaper phones, and computers, but a person pays more for a BMW or Audi, Tesla, or "X" Luxury car because more goes into it, and you expect more out of it. A person could also buy a Toyota Yaris if they don't care, have the money for a BMW, or EVEN LIKES and PREFERS the Yaris. Full disclosure I drive a cheap Yaris. :)
    Something wrong here. Yes. R&D is expensive. And wages. But Apple has somehow managed to amass around 250 billion dollars in cash in ten years. After taxes and wages and R&D. There seems to be plenty of room for lower prices.
    Something is "wrong" because Apple has a runaway hit and is successful? That's absurd. The iPhone is the most successful single product in human history -- why shouldn't their bank account get bigger? A product is worth what people will pay for it. iPhone and high-end Samsungs and Google phones all cost about the same. Is something wrong with them too? Or just Apple, because they're doing better?
    People seem to assume Apple would have more clients if they only had their prices a bit lower... Well, hell no, they'd be leaving money on the table and likely gain very little in return in market share. This lower profit would starve them and allow the competition to gain on them eventually.
    radarthekatjbdragonpscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 32
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,694member
    StrangeDays said:
    avon b7 said:
    Jdmr1701 said:
    sog35 said:
    Apple tries to force its suppliers to reduce prices, which is fine, but what is not fine is it charges so much for it stuff to us. Hypocrisy. Can dish it out, but can't be on recieving end of its own tactics. Good for QCOM
    No is forcing you or anyone to buy Apple products.
    ^^^Exactly^^^ Paul, not doubt Apple makes literally tons of money in profits every quarter. They use the money to boost stock prices with buy backs (whether that is good or bad) but also dumps countless dollars into data centers (which it is building themselves due in part to privacy concerns from governments), R&D, as well as design and parts. When iFixIt says the parts to build an iPhone only come out to lets say $250, for some reason everyone things it shouldn't cost more than say $300 for the phone. BUT in order for Apple to have some of the best engineers, designers, and coders they NEED to pay these people, otherwise they go to Google or Tesla, which happens. R&D of new tech and new products is NOT CHEAP. You often get what you pay for and on grand scale what Apple charges for their products is not outside the same price range of other manufacturers. Yes there are cheaper phones, and computers, but a person pays more for a BMW or Audi, Tesla, or "X" Luxury car because more goes into it, and you expect more out of it. A person could also buy a Toyota Yaris if they don't care, have the money for a BMW, or EVEN LIKES and PREFERS the Yaris. Full disclosure I drive a cheap Yaris. :)
    Something wrong here. Yes. R&D is expensive. And wages. But Apple has somehow managed to amass around 250 billion dollars in cash in ten years. After taxes and wages and R&D. There seems to be plenty of room for lower prices.
    Something is "wrong" because Apple has a runaway hit and is successful? That's absurd. The iPhone is the most successful single product in human history -- why shouldn't their bank account get bigger? A product is worth what people will pay for it. iPhone and high-end Samsungs and Google phones all cost about the same. Is something wrong with them too? Or just Apple, because they're doing better?
    That wasn't the point in question. The point implied was that Apple couldn't lower prices because there were costs in developing the hardware and surrounding infrastructure (and of course some profit) but that doesn't ring true if, in spite of everything, you have been able to run up a cash hoard of 250 billion dollars.

    If this is reasonable, correct etc is another question but prices could be far lower and Apple could still be one of the most profitable companies on the planet.
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