All-new Mac Pro with modular design, Apple-branded pro displays coming in 2018

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  • Reply 41 of 210
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 1,584member



    As for an Apple-branded pro display, that announcement would appear to be an about-face for the company, after it suggested last year that it was permanently exiting the standalone monitor business
    No, they never suggested any such thing. It is an about-face for the tech media that drew its own (wrong) conclusions, as usual.
    But they allowed the notion they were out of the display business to linger on. I think had the LG display been better received Apple wouldn't be taking about new displays.
    avon b7dysamoria
  • Reply 42 of 210
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 1,584member
    linkman said:
    linkman said:
    If this refresh/update comes out in 2018, then it's what, only three years late?
    Never good enough for some people. How miserable.
    It was released on December 19, 2013. The next update of ANY kind was April 4, 2017. In the computer world, that's a long time. Waiting until *maybe* 2018 or later for a significant upgrade to what is supposed to be the professional workstation model with huge amounts of processing power is simply asking for some dissatisfied customers.
    I'm sorry but there's simply nothing that Apple could do that would have sirisfied some of the people who post on the blogs and rumor sites. Nothing. Also, the fact that Apple didn't just drop the Mac Pro when they said in the DF piece that it accounts for a single digit percentage of PRO users, (not overall users, not Mac users, but people who use a pro level app daily or at least once a week) is a very very good sign that all the whining about the doom of Apple and Tim Cook, yadda yadda, was a lot of wasted breath, typing, and energy.
    These people simply refused to see that there weren't any real upgrades to be had until recently. And to be frank, most of them wouldn't even have bought a new one. They would have found something else to complain about, because that's all they do. 
    This is quite unprecedented for Apple though. Says to me there was a sizeable chunk of their pro customers telling them they were ready to walk away from the Mac.
    dysamoria
  • Reply 43 of 210
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 2,704member
    I hope it's not back to the cheese-grater size again. That was a hefty machine that really didn't offer much upgradability for its size. The transition from that design to the compact cylindrical Mac Pro made sense as it was only a small reduction in upgradability.

    I also hope they do better with the displays, usb-c provides the opportunity to run a great deal of ports over to the display. It would be nice to have the audio jacks closer to the user, as well as a bit more freedom in how far the display is from the tower. Dual displays on the cheese-grater and cylinder are annoying cluttered.

    I disagree...I have a last gen 2012 MacPro tower and I've been able to upgrade nearly anything I've wanted to. I don't know where this didn't offer much for upgradability for its size came from. I have an NVIDIA GeForce 980 graphics card installed, USB 3, 16GB of RAM (capable of much more), 3 SSDs, and 2 1TB hard drives installed inside it. Sure, I can't put Thunderbolt or USB-C inside of it, but thats a product of the design of those technologies, not a design of the MacPro tower. Does it bother me in the end, not really. I get by just fine with my USB 3 PCi-e card that I installed. 

    I doubt you'll ever see a Mac where you can swap out your own CPU's so if you were looking for that, I wouldn't count on it. For everything else, the old MacPro tower did this very well. 

    I will agree it could be in a smaller package. I've always though they could engineer the old MacPro tower to be about the size of the PowerMac G4 towers. There's no reason why they can't. One thing we do have to remember is that some high end graphics cards are pretty large in size. So not only do you have to design something that fit that, but also to cool it and make it easily swappable. It most likely won't have an optical drive (pretty much guaranteed), so that would save about 3 or 4 inches alone as far as height of the tower. 
    edited April 4 williamlondonration alwatto_cobra
  • Reply 44 of 210
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 29,087member
    The fact that they announced so far ahead probably reflects the fact that Mac Pro sales are so bad that they want to assure Pro users that they know there's a problem and they are working on it. They're trying to head off losing those users to Windows PC's. 
    I wish they would breathe some life back into the mini while they're at it. 
    Elvis has left the Building in Video. The tragic combination of iMovie Pro X ( d.b.a. FCPX) and the trashcan sent the editing world away from Apple and rightly so. Apple, with the attention span of a housefly, abandoned Aperture and those customers. They also ruined Logic Pro in a similar manner.

    As someone with a real Mac Pro Tower, who bought and used Final Cut Pro, Aperture and Logic I was and am not amused. It did not have to be this way.

    Apple has more money than any other company on the earth and huge human resources to devote to multiple product lines simultaneously as it is not the starving company of 1997 trying to remain afloat. They should be able to keep the Mac current while wasting money and people on crap like Beats. And , if it comes down to Planet of the Apps or a new Mac Pro, tell Eddie Cue to have a nice day and find a new job.
    That's not really true, onLy a small percentage have left the building, and most of those are looking back. FCP is just dandy now. It took some time to get there,  but it has. There's nothing wrong with Logic either.

    i bitched about Aperture when it first came out, as I felt that Apple made a number of major mistakes with it. Some were fixed quickly, but others took some time, and a few were never resolved satisfactorily. If Adobe hadn't been working on Lightroom at the same time, Aperture might have survived. But the truth is that it was a much better product for the "real" working pro than Aperture was. 
    edited April 4 ration alwatto_cobrasennen
  • Reply 45 of 210
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 11,911member

    IMO, the operative word in the announcement is modular.

    That opens up many possibilities... Spanning all Apple products/services -- both current and future...

    GPU, GPU, Who's got the GPU???

    williamlondonrandominternetpersonanome
  • Reply 46 of 210
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 29,087member

    AI_lias said:
    Good news and bad news: the good news is that they are not abandoning it, and making it more practical, and getting back into the display bit-ness. The bad news is, well, we knew that all along: the Mac Pro design sucked. All looks, no practicality, both for users and Apple, who could not upgrade it easily. What if they try these outlandish designs in parallel? Let users decide, and see which one sells better... 
    I wonder what modular means here, any speculation?
    Well, I imagine that it means what it sounds like. PCI bus cards, drive drawers, slots, or whatever. Maybe another CPU card bay.
  • Reply 47 of 210
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 29,087member

    linkman said:
    linkman said:
    If this refresh/update comes out in 2018, then it's what, only three years late?
    Never good enough for some people. How miserable.
    It was released on December 19, 2013. The next update of ANY kind was April 4, 2017. In the computer world, that's a long time. Waiting until *maybe* 2018 or later for a significant upgrade to what is supposed to be the professional workstation model with huge amounts of processing power is simply asking for some dissatisfied customers.
    There will also be a large number of happy customers as well, such as myself. For most who have waited this long, another year will be hard, but doable.
    ration alwatto_cobradysamoria
  • Reply 48 of 210
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 11,911member
    melgross said:

    AI_lias said:
    Good news and bad news: the good news is that they are not abandoning it, and making it more practical, and getting back into the display bit-ness. The bad news is, well, we knew that all along: the Mac Pro design sucked. All looks, no practicality, both for users and Apple, who could not upgrade it easily. What if they try these outlandish designs in parallel? Let users decide, and see which one sells better... 
    I wonder what modular means here, any speculation?
    Well, I imagine that it means what it sounds like. PCI bus cards, drive drawers, slots, or whatever. Maybe another CPU card bay.
    Or, does it mean multiple boxes in addition to multiple bays (whatever) within a box?

    randominternetperson
  • Reply 49 of 210

    IMO, the operative word in the announcement is modular.

    That opens up many possibilities... Spanning all Apple products/services -- both current and future...

    GPU, GPU, Who's got the GPU???

    Wasn't there some discussion a few years ago about a future Mac mini being modular, sort of like stacking interlocking modules on one another for more or better functionality? Wonder if it's something like this?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 210
    pentaepentae Posts: 17member
    Hallelujah!

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 51 of 210
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,409member

    IMO, the operative word in the announcement is modular.

    That opens up many possibilities... Spanning all Apple products/services -- both current and future...

    Exactly. The Pro is a niche market and very different from IOS related products and consumer / prosumer OSX products. Professionals do not like upheavals and big changes as they have too much invested in current set-ups. This is the 'truck' business after all, and fancy looking new models is much less important than upgradability and performance. As such it makes perfect sense for Apple to break with tradition and announce intentions ahead of time, and communicate directly with its user base. It also makes sense to create a rock solid modular machine where literally everything can be updated and upgraded on a 'per need' basis. There is much less marketing value in a newly designed Pro enclosure than a new iPad, or even iMac. 
    edited April 4 watto_cobra
  • Reply 52 of 210
    sog35sog35 Posts: 12,367member
    sog35 said:
    So Apple is incapable of walking and chewing gun at the same time? How long does it take to design a tower that serves the market- we do not give a crap about styling. Take the Pre-Trashcan form factor and update it for the current market- that should take a small team little time.

    A company as big and well heeled as Apple should be able to serve a select small market and waste gobs of money on crap like Animated Balloons on Text Messages and Facebook integration. Serving specialty markets is common in business all the time- you do not have to make a killing on every product line. The line should have been kept up to date all along and the Black Trashcan was a tragic mistake.

    In Medicine, Hospitals and Clinics commonly offer necessary services that are break even at best because it is in the best interest of the customers. Mammography is a prime example- unless you do huge volume you will never make a dime providing the service, but it is done anyhow. Apple makes truckloads on iPhones and should be able to subsidize the high end pro market.
    Comparing Apple to a Hospital....................LOLOLOOLLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!
    I am comparing businesses. And BTW, one of the markets Apple abandoned was high end Radiology Workstations so you could have your Trashcan and Facebook integration. Pro Computers do more than edit video, compose complex music, or maintain large databases.

    Apple is a business, a Hospital is a business, an Airline is a business, a Car Company is a business. Now you might want to fix your keyboard because it is either sticking on L, O and ! or you might want to grow up.
    Again comparing Apple to a Hospital.......................LOLOLOLOOLOLOOOLOLOOOLOLLOLOLOOOLLLOOL!!!!

    I'm sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about if you think the business Apple runs is even comparable to a hospital.
  • Reply 53 of 210
    sevenfeetsevenfeet Posts: 343member
    Good news on the Mac Pro front and a rare admission from Apple that they screwed the pooch on this one.  Sometimes function does have to trump form when you are making design decisions.  The 2013 Mac Pro looked way cool but was hobbled by a design that you couldn't do much with.  2012 Mac Pros still have high resale because of it (I still use by 2008 Mac Pro as a primary machine).

    So why "not this year"?  Surely Apple can design and build a expandable Mac Pro in a reasonable time frame.  The reason is either that they just started this project (maybe) or the fact that one of the central core technologies for a new Mac Pro would be PCI-e 4.0, and that technology is late.  According to news reports, we might see it in high end PCs and servers late this year so it wouldn't be surprising if Apple was waiting to get chipsets for the new standard.  It would be like them to wait for such a core technology that will be the bedrock of a new Mac Pro for years to come.  The alternative would be to introduce a PCI 3.0 machine now only to have 4.0 come out soon after, pissing off power users again.

    I do think the new machine will have to support full size Nvidia/AMD graphics cards like their PC cousins.  I do not think Apple will make the design friendly to spinning hard disks with flash memory as cheap as it is now.  So the new machine will obviously be smaller then the popular cheese-grater monolith of old.  Everything else should be included...Thunderbolt 3/USB 3.1 and the ability to drive multiple 4K/5K and yes, 8K screens.  Like the 2013 Mac Pro, it needs to be quiet for editing suites (I recently visited the Youtube studios in Playa Vista, CA....2013 Mac Pros are everywhere there).  That's easier without spinning hard drives.  And I'd add dual 10 gigabit copper Ethernet while they are at it in the chassis.  Chipsets for this are coming down in price and maybe by the time the machine is released, the form factor will be smaller too for them.

    The other interesting news is doing an "iMac Pro" so to speak.  Frankly, I've always wondered why Apple didn't do this anyway years earlier.  The iMac can handle a lot of Pro applications and it just needs a few upgrades to make it really interesting.  Better, non-mobile graphics chipsets is the obvious upgrade along with TB3/USB 3.1 for I/O.  The 5K screen is getting mature and I'm sure that better versions are in supplier LG's pipeline.....how about HDR for video editing/playback?  And support for the next DisplayPort (post v1.4) standard would be nice for single cable 4K/5K/8K plus monitor support.
    patchythepiratewatto_cobra
  • Reply 54 of 210
    rfrmacrfrmac Posts: 76member
    Let me tell you what this shows me.  Apple has completely forgotten about the iMac, Mac Mini and Mac Pro lines for years.   When I read that something like this will not be ready until next year what else can one think?  We may get a new iMac in the Fall to Winter of this year.  Seeing is believing.  And announcements like this that are given just to try to hold the market.  But that has been it. What has Apple been doing for the last 3 now 4 years?  It certainly hasn't been doing desktop computers.  Tim? what have you been doing?  All we've heard from you is words when it comes to desktop computing.  You don't "love" the Mac.  The only reason you've started to do something now is because of competitive pressure and product linkage.  You've never really cared about the Mac users.  You're great at opening markets and distributor pipelines but you've failed miserable when it comes to computers.  The iPhone and things that hook to the iPhone are the only places I've seen an innovation in for years.  But who cares, I'm only one voice.  The  only reason many of us are still here is the operating system.  With all the billions and billions in the bank and you can't find any money for engineers and product people to really push the Mac to where it should be is a crying shame.
    edited April 4 aussiepauldysamoria
  • Reply 55 of 210

    IMO, the operative word in the announcement is modular.

    That opens up many possibilities... Spanning all Apple products/services -- both current and future...

    GPU, GPU, Who's got the GPU???


    I like your thinking and had the same idea when I read the AI article.  However, after reading the Daring Fireball piece, I have tempered my expectations.  Here's the quote from Phil Schiller: "As part of doing a new Mac Pro — it is, by definition, a modular system — we will be doing a pro display as well."  It's obvious from that context that "modular" simply means "separate CPU and monitor."  Yes, modular could mean other things as well, but their use of the term here is specific and limited.

    In fact they also point out that expecting pro users to expand their systems by adding on thunderbolt devices (i.e., having the computer itself be modular) didn't work out.

  • Reply 56 of 210
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 2,704member
    linkman said:
    linkman said:
    If this refresh/update comes out in 2018, then it's what, only three years late?
    Never good enough for some people. How miserable.
    It was released on December 19, 2013. The next update of ANY kind was April 4, 2017. In the computer world, that's a long time. Waiting until *maybe* 2018 or later for a significant upgrade to what is supposed to be the professional workstation model with huge amounts of processing power is simply asking for some dissatisfied customers.
    I'm sorry but there's simply nothing that Apple could do that would have sirisfied some of the people who post on the blogs and rumor sites. Nothing. Also, the fact that Apple didn't just drop the Mac Pro when they said in the DF piece that it accounts for a single digit percentage of PRO users, (not overall users, not Mac users, but people who use a pro level app daily or at least once a week) is a very very good sign that all the whining about the doom of Apple and Tim Cook, yadda yadda, was a lot of wasted breath, typing, and energy.
    These people simply refused to see that there weren't any real upgrades to be had until recently. And to be frank, most of them wouldn't even have bought a new one. They would have found something else to complain about, because that's all they do. 
    Yes, I've been saying this all along. In some ways, its not 100% Apple's fault. Yes, they could have done what they did today a while ago but that still wouldn't have made people happy. Little minuscule updates don't really do much in the end. Its just updating to say they've updated their product. It still pisses people off and they're still bitch and whine about it. 

    I will add that I think its safe to say the MacPro is a very niche product for Apple. Apple knows it, they pretty much admitted it. So it makes absolutely ZERO sense to put a ton of effort into something that about 1 or 2% of Mac customers buy. Like I think it was Phil who said a lot of "Pros" just get high end iMacs and I think Apple sees this and will design a new iMac to accommodate this customer base. 

    When this new MacPro appears people will be bitching up a storm about its design, specs, price, availability, etc. It doesn't matter what Apple does, there's always a small group of people that are never happy. Its always been this way and always will. I've participated in forums for well over 10yrs and its the same song and dance every time Apple releases something new (or just updates something). 
    thewhitefalconanomewatto_cobra
  • Reply 57 of 210
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 11,911member
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    So Apple is incapable of walking and chewing gun at the same time? How long does it take to design a tower that serves the market- we do not give a crap about styling. Take the Pre-Trashcan form factor and update it for the current market- that should take a small team little time.

    A company as big and well heeled as Apple should be able to serve a select small market and waste gobs of money on crap like Animated Balloons on Text Messages and Facebook integration. Serving specialty markets is common in business all the time- you do not have to make a killing on every product line. The line should have been kept up to date all along and the Black Trashcan was a tragic mistake.

    In Medicine, Hospitals and Clinics commonly offer necessary services that are break even at best because it is in the best interest of the customers. Mammography is a prime example- unless you do huge volume you will never make a dime providing the service, but it is done anyhow. Apple makes truckloads on iPhones and should be able to subsidize the high end pro market.
    Comparing Apple to a Hospital....................LOLOLOOLLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!
    I am comparing businesses. And BTW, one of the markets Apple abandoned was high end Radiology Workstations so you could have your Trashcan and Facebook integration. Pro Computers do more than edit video, compose complex music, or maintain large databases.

    Apple is a business, a Hospital is a business, an Airline is a business, a Car Company is a business. Now you might want to fix your keyboard because it is either sticking on L, O and ! or you might want to grow up.
    Again comparing Apple to a Hospital.......................LOLOLOLOOLOLOOOLOLOOOLOLLOLOLOOOLLLOOL!!!!

    I'm sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about if you think the business Apple runs is even comparable to a hospital.
    But Apple, IBM, etc. sell Macs and iDevices to hospitals, airlines... And apparently some Mac Pros and lots of maxed-out iMacs to IT in those businesses... if only for code development.

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 58 of 210
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 2,704member

    IMO, the operative word in the announcement is modular.

    That opens up many possibilities... Spanning all Apple products/services -- both current and future...

    GPU, GPU, Who's got the GPU???

    I would like to see Apple start offering both AMD and NVIDIA options. I've always liked NVIDIA, but I think its best to have both offered and let the customer choose what's best for their use. And it doesn't have to be just workstation class graphics. There's nothing wrong with offering something like the NVIDIA GeForce1080 (or whatever is out when the new MacPro is released). Not everyone needs workstation class graphics.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 59 of 210
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 11,911member

    Here ya' go...



    Now, where's my Centronics breakout box???

  • Reply 60 of 210
    sog35sog35 Posts: 12,367member
    rfrmac said:
    Let me tell you what this shows me.  Apple has completely forgotten about the iMac, Mac Mini and Mac Pro lines for years.   When I read that something like this will not be ready until next year what else can one think?  We may get a new iMac in the Fall to Winter of this year.  Seeing is believing.  And announcements like this that are given just to try to hold the market.  But that has been it. What has Apple been doing for the last 3 now 4 years?  It certainly hasn't been doing desktop computers.  Tim? what have you been doing?  All we've heard from you is words when it comes to desktop computing.  You don't "love" the Mac.  The only reason you've started to do something now is because of competitive pressure and product linkage.  You've never really cared about the Mac users.  You're great at opening markets and distributor pipelines but you've failed miserable when it comes to computers.  The iPhone and things that hook to the iPhone are the only places I've seen an innovation in for years.  But who cares, I'm only one voice.  The  only reason many of us are still here is the operating system.  With all the billions and billions in the bank and you can't find any money for engineers and product people to really push the Mac to where it should be is a crying shame.
    The Mac is a DYING and SHRINKING platform. PERIOD. 

    There is no way you can deny it.

    Has Cook let the Mac line rot? Yes. And he had a good reason. Because the Mac is not the future. iPad/iPhone/Wearables are the future. So don't expect Apple to put large resources into the Mac. It just isn't worth it.

    Its like investing big money into a cruise ship that is sinking. Facts are facts. Less and less people are using PC's everyday. 10 years from now PC use will be about half of what it was at peak PC. 

    Yes, Apple is updating some Macs the next 2 years. But the only reason they are doing that is to ease the transition from Mac to iOS. In 10 years its pretty much undisputable that the Mac will be just like the iPod today.
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