All-new Mac Pro with modular design, Apple-branded pro displays coming in 2018

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 210
    sog35sog35 Posts: 12,367member
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    So Apple is incapable of walking and chewing gun at the same time? How long does it take to design a tower that serves the market- we do not give a crap about styling. Take the Pre-Trashcan form factor and update it for the current market- that should take a small team little time.

    A company as big and well heeled as Apple should be able to serve a select small market and waste gobs of money on crap like Animated Balloons on Text Messages and Facebook integration. Serving specialty markets is common in business all the time- you do not have to make a killing on every product line. The line should have been kept up to date all along and the Black Trashcan was a tragic mistake.

    In Medicine, Hospitals and Clinics commonly offer necessary services that are break even at best because it is in the best interest of the customers. Mammography is a prime example- unless you do huge volume you will never make a dime providing the service, but it is done anyhow. Apple makes truckloads on iPhones and should be able to subsidize the high end pro market.
    Comparing Apple to a Hospital....................LOLOLOOLLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!
    I am comparing businesses. And BTW, one of the markets Apple abandoned was high end Radiology Workstations so you could have your Trashcan and Facebook integration. Pro Computers do more than edit video, compose complex music, or maintain large databases.

    Apple is a business, a Hospital is a business, an Airline is a business, a Car Company is a business. Now you might want to fix your keyboard because it is either sticking on L, O and ! or you might want to grow up.
    Again comparing Apple to a Hospital.......................LOLOLOLOOLOLOOOLOLOOOLOLLOLOLOOOLLLOOL!!!!

    I'm sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about if you think the business Apple runs is even comparable to a hospital.
    But Apple, IBM, etc. sell Macs and iDevices to hospitals, airlines... And apparently some Mac Pros and lots of maxed-out iMacs to IT in those businesses... if only for code development.

    That wasn't the point. DavidAlGreogory's point is that Apple should run there BUSINESS like a hospital. Which is totally and utterly ridiculous and ignorant.

    He said Hospitals run machinery that loses them money to serve a niche customer group and he expects Apple to do the same. He expects Apple to run its business like St Mary's Hospital. Ridiculous.
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 62 of 210
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 1,609member
    I think this is positive. They've admitted they made a mistake and they've committed to fixing it. 

    The downside is the length of time they are taking to fix it. I don't see why their stopgap couldn't be to bring back the old big aluminum tower with some Broadwell Xeons. They could do that with commodity parts. In essence, make their own Hackintosh. 

    But whatevs. It's a big deal for them to admit a mistake, it's a big deal for them to forecast a new product far in advance. These are important steps on the road to being a company that maybe, just maybe, finally figures out how to sell to professional users. 
    aaaashypatchythepiratewatto_cobradysamoria
  • Reply 63 of 210
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 11,911member
    sog35 said:
    rfrmac said:
    Let me tell you what this shows me.  Apple has completely forgotten about the iMac, Mac Mini and Mac Pro lines for years.   When I read that something like this will not be ready until next year what else can one think?  We may get a new iMac in the Fall to Winter of this year.  Seeing is believing.  And announcements like this that are given just to try to hold the market.  But that has been it. What has Apple been doing for the last 3 now 4 years?  It certainly hasn't been doing desktop computers.  Tim? what have you been doing?  All we've heard from you is words when it comes to desktop computing.  You don't "love" the Mac.  The only reason you've started to do something now is because of competitive pressure and product linkage.  You've never really cared about the Mac users.  You're great at opening markets and distributor pipelines but you've failed miserable when it comes to computers.  The iPhone and things that hook to the iPhone are the only places I've seen an innovation in for years.  But who cares, I'm only one voice.  The  only reason many of us are still here is the operating system.  With all the billions and billions in the bank and you can't find any money for engineers and product people to really push the Mac to where it should be is a crying shame.
    The Mac is a DYING and SHRINKING platform. PERIOD. 

    There is no way you can deny it.

    Has Cook let the Mac line rot? Yes. And he had a good reason. Because the Mac is not the future. iPad/iPhone/Wearables are the future. So don't expect Apple to put large resources into the Mac. It just isn't worth it.

    Its like investing big money into a cruise ship that is sinking. Facts are facts. Less and less people are using PC's everyday. 10 years from now PC use will be about half of what it was at peak PC. 

    Yes, Apple is updating some Macs the next 2 years. But the only reason they are doing that is to ease the transition from Mac to iOS. In 10 years its pretty much undisputable that the Mac will be just like the iPod today.

    The Mac sure has a funny way of dying and shrinking-- increasing sales every year, even without major updates...


    http://www.asymco.com

    edited April 4 StrangeDaysroundaboutnowration alwatto_cobradysamoria
  • Reply 64 of 210
    tmaytmay Posts: 1,716member
    macxpress said:
    linkman said:
    linkman said:
    If this refresh/update comes out in 2018, then it's what, only three years late?
    Never good enough for some people. How miserable.
    It was released on December 19, 2013. The next update of ANY kind was April 4, 2017. In the computer world, that's a long time. Waiting until *maybe* 2018 or later for a significant upgrade to what is supposed to be the professional workstation model with huge amounts of processing power is simply asking for some dissatisfied customers.
    I'm sorry but there's simply nothing that Apple could do that would have sirisfied some of the people who post on the blogs and rumor sites. Nothing. Also, the fact that Apple didn't just drop the Mac Pro when they said in the DF piece that it accounts for a single digit percentage of PRO users, (not overall users, not Mac users, but people who use a pro level app daily or at least once a week) is a very very good sign that all the whining about the doom of Apple and Tim Cook, yadda yadda, was a lot of wasted breath, typing, and energy.
    These people simply refused to see that there weren't any real upgrades to be had until recently. And to be frank, most of them wouldn't even have bought a new one. They would have found something else to complain about, because that's all they do. 
    Yes, I've been saying this all along. In some ways, its not 100% Apple's fault. Yes, they could have done what they did today a while ago but that still wouldn't have made people happy. Little minuscule updates don't really do much in the end. Its just updating to say they've updated their product. It still pisses people off and they're still bitch and whine about it. 

    I will add that I think its safe to say the MacPro is a very niche product for Apple. Apple knows it, they pretty much admitted it. So it makes absolutely ZERO sense to put a ton of effort into something that about 1 or 2% of Mac customers buy. Like I think it was Phil who said a lot of "Pros" just get high end iMacs and I think Apple sees this and will design a new iMac to accommodate this customer base. 

    When this new MacPro appears people will be bitching up a storm about its design, specs, price, availability, etc. It doesn't matter what Apple does, there's always a small group of people that are never happy. Its always been this way and always will. I've participated in forums for well over 10yrs and its the same song and dance every time Apple releases something new (or just updates something). 
    I'm complaining early.

    I want a tower with no more than two spinning disks, and those can be 2 1/2 inch SATA drives there just to backup the system and applications that reside on solid state memory. Everything else should be devoted to DDR5, solid state memory modules, and PCIe slots. Plus, of course, six TB3 / type C connectors; two front, four in the back. For this model, a single Core I7 would be fine. I"m guessing people would want a BD or DVD drive, and an SD slot, so that would have to fit in somewhere, but keep the package small enough, and quiet enough, for a desktop. I'm thinking of a large toaster sized device.

    A more traditional workstation would give you five or seven SATA slots for 3 1/2 inch drives, dual Xeon processors, and lots of PCIe slots. Maybe that's what the market want's, but it seems out of step with all but a small fraction of the potential users.
  • Reply 65 of 210
    brucemcbrucemc Posts: 1,006member
    rfrmac said:
    Let me tell you what this shows me.  Apple has completely forgotten about the iMac, Mac Mini and Mac Pro lines for years.   When I read that something like this will not be ready until next year what else can one think?  We may get a new iMac in the Fall to Winter of this year.  Seeing is believing.  And announcements like this that are given just to try to hold the market.  But that has been it. What has Apple been doing for the last 3 now 4 years?  It certainly hasn't been doing desktop computers.  Tim? what have you been doing?  All we've heard from you is words when it comes to desktop computing.  You don't "love" the Mac.  The only reason you've started to do something now is because of competitive pressure and product linkage.  You've never really cared about the Mac users.  You're great at opening markets and distributor pipelines but you've failed miserable when it comes to computers.  The iPhone and things that hook to the iPhone are the only places I've seen an innovation in for years.  But who cares, I'm only one voice.  The  only reason many of us are still here is the operating system.  With all the billions and billions in the bank and you can't find any money for engineers and product people to really push the Mac to where it should be is a crying shame.
    The iMac line had a substantial update in 2014 (27" 5K) and 2015 (21.5" 4K).

    The Mac Mini in the last few years has become a *very* niche product.  Only 20% of Mac's sold are desktops, and iMac makes up the large majority.  Remainder is Mini and Pro.  I can understand the strong feelings for the Pro, given some professionals who have been with Apple for a long time rely on these machines.  The Mini seems like a hobby device for many - media servers, small business servers.  Niche, hobby devices don't get updated that often.
    StrangeDaysration al
  • Reply 66 of 210
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 1,361member

    As for an Apple-branded pro display, that announcement would appear to be an about-face for the company, after it suggested last year that it was permanently exiting the standalone monitor business. It instead partnered with LG Display for a pair of new ultra-high-resolution displays that connect over USB-C and Thunderbolt 3.
    Actually no, AI -- Apple never said they were leaving the monitor business. That was a "rumor", put forth by Verge's Nilay Patel, a prime anti-apple troll. No release, no announcement. 

    Just like how they have not said theyre leaving the wifi business, despite the rumors and your own articles and supposed sources.
    williamlondonsuddenly newtonration alwatto_cobra
  • Reply 67 of 210
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 513member
    rfrmac said:
     What has Apple been doing for the last 3 now 4 years?  It certainly hasn't been doing desktop computers.  
    What do you call the 5K iMac? 
    StrangeDaysration alwatto_cobra
  • Reply 68 of 210
    sog35sog35 Posts: 12,367member
    sog35 said:
    rfrmac said:
    Let me tell you what this shows me.  Apple has completely forgotten about the iMac, Mac Mini and Mac Pro lines for years.   When I read that something like this will not be ready until next year what else can one think?  We may get a new iMac in the Fall to Winter of this year.  Seeing is believing.  And announcements like this that are given just to try to hold the market.  But that has been it. What has Apple been doing for the last 3 now 4 years?  It certainly hasn't been doing desktop computers.  Tim? what have you been doing?  All we've heard from you is words when it comes to desktop computing.  You don't "love" the Mac.  The only reason you've started to do something now is because of competitive pressure and product linkage.  You've never really cared about the Mac users.  You're great at opening markets and distributor pipelines but you've failed miserable when it comes to computers.  The iPhone and things that hook to the iPhone are the only places I've seen an innovation in for years.  But who cares, I'm only one voice.  The  only reason many of us are still here is the operating system.  With all the billions and billions in the bank and you can't find any money for engineers and product people to really push the Mac to where it should be is a crying shame.
    The Mac is a DYING and SHRINKING platform. PERIOD. 

    There is no way you can deny it.

    Has Cook let the Mac line rot? Yes. And he had a good reason. Because the Mac is not the future. iPad/iPhone/Wearables are the future. So don't expect Apple to put large resources into the Mac. It just isn't worth it.

    Its like investing big money into a cruise ship that is sinking. Facts are facts. Less and less people are using PC's everyday. 10 years from now PC use will be about half of what it was at peak PC. 

    Yes, Apple is updating some Macs the next 2 years. But the only reason they are doing that is to ease the transition from Mac to iOS. In 10 years its pretty much undisputable that the Mac will be just like the iPod today.

    The Mac sure has a funny way of dying and shrinking-- increasing sales every year, even without major updates...


    http://www.asymco.com

    The last 5 years have been basically flat unit growth for Mac. Most of it is new iPhone/iPad users switching to Mac from Windoze

    Once the iPad gains productivity the Mac will flatline or decline. 

    Stop trying to hold on to the past. The facts are the PC business as a whole (not just Mac) is dying. That cannot be denied.  Mac can go against the trend in the short term but once a viable alternative presents itself its over.  Once iPads reach critical mass with regards to power and software.....its over.  That will happen within 5 years. Within 10 years the Mac will be the iPod of 5 years ago.

    This is the natural evolution of product. It what happened when the iPhone slowly killed the iPod. The same will happen with the iPad with the Mac.

    edited April 4
  • Reply 69 of 210
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 1,361member
    John Gruber who was in the room has a great piece on this. In it he reveals MP customers are a single-digit of total mac sales. He believes closer to the 1% than 9:

    http://daringfireball.net/2017/04/the_mac_pro_lives
    tmay
  • Reply 70 of 210
    jaaycojaayco Posts: 43member
    sog35 said:
    The current Mac Pro is another example of horrible design by Ive and Co.  I'm glad many of the senior designers are leaving. Its obvious Apple needs new blood.

    The Mac Pro is another example of design going to far and destroying the practicality of the product. And the design itself kinda sucks. A trash can? ugly.


    I'm curious what other horrible designs you are referring to? Are there other amazing designers out there that have a better hit rate than these guys? Is this design any less practical than the Microsoft Surface Studio? Happy to hold these guys to a higher standard, but where is that higher standard? Samsung? Google? Maybe you thought the Amazon phone design was brilliant? Super easy to criticise. What exactly are you after?
    StrangeDayswilliamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 71 of 210
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 1,361member

    So Schiller is basically saying Apple made a mistake without using that word. I'm a little surprised it took them this long but saying you screwed up is not easy.
    Yeah, I can't remember you saying it either after all the years posting off-base conspiracy theories about Apple trying to screw you with malicious intent. I guess it is hard to say.
    ration alwatto_cobra
  • Reply 72 of 210
    sog35sog35 Posts: 12,367member
    John Gruber who was in the room has a great piece on this. In it he reveals MP customers are a single-digit of total mac sales. He believes closer to the 1% than 9:

    http://daringfireball.net/2017/04/the_mac_pro_lives
    That comes to less than 500,000 Mac Pros sold a year. LOL.

    No wonder it gets neglected. 
    edited April 4
  • Reply 73 of 210
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 1,361member
    avon b7 said:
    Two things to applaud. Communication and admitting they got the design wrong.
    Read it again. They bet on parallel processing in the GPUs, but the industry didn't move there. It's not so much as the "design" being wrong, as it the prediction of industry computing trends.
    seeker143ration altenthousandthingswatto_cobradysamoria
  • Reply 74 of 210
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 11,911member
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    So Apple is incapable of walking and chewing gun at the same time? How long does it take to design a tower that serves the market- we do not give a crap about styling. Take the Pre-Trashcan form factor and update it for the current market- that should take a small team little time.

    A company as big and well heeled as Apple should be able to serve a select small market and waste gobs of money on crap like Animated Balloons on Text Messages and Facebook integration. Serving specialty markets is common in business all the time- you do not have to make a killing on every product line. The line should have been kept up to date all along and the Black Trashcan was a tragic mistake.

    In Medicine, Hospitals and Clinics commonly offer necessary services that are break even at best because it is in the best interest of the customers. Mammography is a prime example- unless you do huge volume you will never make a dime providing the service, but it is done anyhow. Apple makes truckloads on iPhones and should be able to subsidize the high end pro market.
    Comparing Apple to a Hospital....................LOLOLOOLLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!
    I am comparing businesses. And BTW, one of the markets Apple abandoned was high end Radiology Workstations so you could have your Trashcan and Facebook integration. Pro Computers do more than edit video, compose complex music, or maintain large databases.

    Apple is a business, a Hospital is a business, an Airline is a business, a Car Company is a business. Now you might want to fix your keyboard because it is either sticking on L, O and ! or you might want to grow up.
    Again comparing Apple to a Hospital.......................LOLOLOLOOLOLOOOLOLOOOLOLLOLOLOOOLLLOOL!!!!

    I'm sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about if you think the business Apple runs is even comparable to a hospital.
    But Apple, IBM, etc. sell Macs and iDevices to hospitals, airlines... And apparently some Mac Pros and lots of maxed-out iMacs to IT in those businesses... if only for code development.

    That wasn't the point. DavidAlGreogory's point is that Apple should run there BUSINESS like a hospital. Which is totally and utterly ridiculous and ignorant.

    He said Hospitals run machinery that loses them money to serve a niche customer group and he expects Apple to do the same. He expects Apple to run its business like St Mary's Hospital. Ridiculous.
    No, his point is that Apple is a business -- not the same business as a hospital -- but a business, nonetheless!

    Apple realizes that there is great potential to sell Macs and iDevices to businesses (including hospitals) -- hence Apple's partnerships with IBM, Cisco, SAP...

    http://www.cio.com/article/3078053/ios/apples-enterprise-partnerships-big-and-small-start-to-pay-off.html

    Because it doesn't jibe with your one-size-fits-all vision of the future doesn't make it untrue.

    watto_cobradysamoria
  • Reply 75 of 210
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 1,361member

    linkman said:
    linkman said:
    If this refresh/update comes out in 2018, then it's what, only three years late?
    Never good enough for some people. How miserable.
    It was released on December 19, 2013. The next update of ANY kind was April 4, 2017. In the computer world, that's a long time. Waiting until *maybe* 2018 or later for a significant upgrade to what is supposed to be the professional workstation model with huge amounts of processing power is simply asking for some dissatisfied customers.
    I'm sorry but there's simply nothing that Apple could do that would have sirisfied some of the people who post on the blogs and rumor sites. Nothing. Also, the fact that Apple didn't just drop the Mac Pro when they said in the DF piece that it accounts for a single digit percentage of PRO users, (not overall users, not Mac users, but people who use a pro level app daily or at least once a week) is a very very good sign that all the whining about the doom of Apple and Tim Cook, yadda yadda, was a lot of wasted breath, typing, and energy.
    No, the MP is single-digit of ALL mac buyers: "Apple declined to describe the Mac Pro’s share of all Mac sales any more specifically than “a single-digit percent”, but my gut feeling is that the single digit is a lot closer to 1 than it is to 9."
    ration alwatto_cobra
  • Reply 76 of 210
    aaaashyaaaashy Posts: 1member
    there was NEVER the need to get rid of the MacPro tower ... that was a BIG mistake!

    the trashcan design required numerous parts, of what i call the whole system, to be left strewn about the desk or floor  .. what was the point of that? where was the design-thinking?

    at that point the focus was on miniaturisation without any real understanding that the bigger the MacPro the more it could hold, the less it would overheat, and the more it could be updated to the OWNERS satisfaction

    and i despaired .... i now no longer trust Apple to do the right thing, i sincerely hope i am proved wrong, but having owned many MacPro's since 1991 and having stuck with my mid-2010 tower i am going to have to see a real turnabout in Apple's thinking before i regain a belief in the company
  • Reply 77 of 210
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 1,584member

    So Schiller is basically saying Apple made a mistake without using that word. I'm a little surprised it took them this long but saying you screwed up is not easy.
    Yeah, I can't remember you saying it either after all the years posting off-base conspiracy theories about Apple trying to screw you with malicious intent. I guess it is hard to say.
    I'm not sure what this announcement has to do with me.
    wozwoz
  • Reply 78 of 210
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 1,361member



    As for an Apple-branded pro display, that announcement would appear to be an about-face for the company, after it suggested last year that it was permanently exiting the standalone monitor business
    No, they never suggested any such thing. It is an about-face for the tech media that drew its own (wrong) conclusions, as usual.
    But they allowed the notion they were out of the display business to linger on. I think had the LG display been better received Apple wouldn't be taking about new displays.
    So even tho wrong, you think you would have been right. Got it...Convenient world view.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 79 of 210
    lightfallstudiolightfallstudio Posts: 2unconfirmed, member
    Don't adjust your TV set.  Apple refuses do something as simple as watch LinusTechTips on Youtube, among many others like Snazzy Labs, to see that 15-year-old boys and girls can build or modify Mac Pro's 3 times faster at 30% of the price.  It's true.  

    The company doesn't even support the Kaby Lake CPU — what's that, 9 months beyond its Aug 2016 release?  But tech journalists are so enamored with Apple's integration they can't take their eyes off the shiny objects & accessories to see that it is not - even with this announcement - a priority.  Anytime it humbles itself to the Apple community, loyal users swoon.  Just remember, it's a tool, it's a device.  What are your needs?  I like my MacBook Pro for traveling, teaching.  But it is NOT a 4-wheel drive in the matters of 3D rendering and Video Editing. Games.  Adobe apps, it all has an economy of scale.

    Look for yourself.  You can still have a Mac and not have to be bound to Johnny Ive's Wheelchair With Touchbar. 




    If you built a base machine today, using a Ryzen 1800 by AMD with 8 cores, 64gb of 3200 RAM, an M2 (mini ssd that delivers sequential Read/Write speeds up to 3,200 MB/s) to hold the OS and a GTX 1070 -- at $1350, you will score almost 20,000 on the Geekbench logs. (Compare to Apple's $8,000 8-core MacPro at a score of 24,000)  It is not a Mac and does not have to be.  It's an example of where technology is and where Apple's commitment is not.  The Youtube videos are proof you can make wicked fast Macs -- and they are stable.

    What Apple has done with this patronizing announcement is make a campaign promise years late. Reason? Hi-end users are not a big part of its revenue.  Don't buy into lip service like Rural America did last fall.  Question the Answer.  I'm sure even I am only scratching the surface. 
    williamlondonargonaut
  • Reply 80 of 210
    sog35sog35 Posts: 12,367member
    jaayco said:
    sog35 said:
    The current Mac Pro is another example of horrible design by Ive and Co.  I'm glad many of the senior designers are leaving. Its obvious Apple needs new blood.

    The Mac Pro is another example of design going to far and destroying the practicality of the product. And the design itself kinda sucks. A trash can? ugly.


    I'm curious what other horrible designs you are referring to? Are there other amazing designers out there that have a better hit rate than these guys? Is this design any less practical than the Microsoft Surface Studio? Happy to hold these guys to a higher standard, but where is that higher standard? Samsung? Google? Maybe you thought the Amazon phone design was brilliant? Super easy to criticise. What exactly are you after?
    The Mac Pro design is horrible because it was not practical for the user that buys MacPro. Very hard to upgrade, and the design made the unit very expensive.

    iPhone 6s and iPhone7 design is not the best in the industry. Sad to say the top level Samsung phones look better just from a hardware design aspect. Smaller bezels make a big difference.

    Apple Watch is okay design. But the non symetrical digital crown is an eye sore. 

    Airpods would look much nicer in Black or other darker colors or metallic. They should have shortened the stem a couple mm also.

    Macbook and Mac Pros are very nice. iMac also.

    iPad design has been stuck for the past 3 years. 

    I think its fair to say that the last 3 years the hardware design of the iPad, iPhone, Watch, AppleTV have not been amazing. And in the case of the iPhone it is trailing the competition in hardware design. Now compare that to when the iPhone4 or iPhone5 came out? Those were miles better than the competition. Same with the first iPad.
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