Wells Fargo enables Apple Pay-authorized transactions at 5,000+ ATMs

AppleInsider

U.S. bank Wells Fargo on Tuesday annnounced that it's now supporting NFC-based authentication -- including Apple Pay -- at over 5,000 ATMs, letting people use the machines without having a debit card handy.

To use Apple Pay people must pick an appropriate card in Wallet, then hold an iPhone or Apple Watch near the proper spot on a terminal, after which they'll be asked to enter the card's PIN. Compatible ATMs have a symbol showing their support for wireless transactions.

Apart from Apple Pay, Wells Fargo is also enabling Android Pay, Samsung Pay, and the bank's own Wells Fargo Wallet for Android. Support at all of the company's 13,000-plus ATMs is only planned by 2019, since it will require upgrading machines.

The bank has been offering a limited form of cardless access since March through the Wells Fargo Mobile app. That method involves generating a one-time access code, generally a less convenient option than Apple Pay.

Bank of America has been offering Apple Pay at ATMs since last year, but the technology is still missing at other major banks, such as Chase.

rob53

It doesn't make sense to have to enter a PIN when using Apple Pay because all your credentials have already been entered and approved when Wells Fargo approved your debit card (which I haven't done but I've enrolled my regular WF Visa credit card). I whole idea of using Apple Pay is to reduce the number of steps. This implementation doesn't do that, in fact it makes it more difficult to use since I need to activate the Apple Pay screen then enter the PIN, most likely on their screen. I might as well just stick in my card and enter the pin.

wood1208

We know Wells Fargo ATM required this onetime generated PIN to enter while using ApplePay. With this news, does it mean NO MORE PIN ? or this is cut paste of old news article ?

riverko

rob53 said:

It doesn't make sense to have to enter a PIN when using Apple Pay because all your credentials have already been entered and approved when Wells Fargo approved your debit card (which I haven't done but I've enrolled my regular WF Visa credit card). I whole idea of using Apple Pay is to reduce the number of steps. This implementation doesn't do that, in fact it makes it more difficult to use since I need to activate the Apple Pay screen then enter the PIN, most likely on their screen. I might as well just stick in my card and enter the pin.

Well, the point of cardless authentication is bit different - yes, it may be requiring some more steps, but it’s improving security - no more/lower risk of skimming your card in the ATM... It’s possible that in future they will upgrade the service so that it will not require interaction with the ATM. I think they do it as for the moment they haven’t found easy way how to tell the ATM that authentication has been done via Apple Pay and it should give you the money.

Roger_Fingas

wood1208 said:

We know Wells Fargo ATM required this onetime generated PIN to enter while using ApplePay. With this news, does it mean NO MORE PIN ? or this is cut paste of old news article ?

It wasn't Apple Pay, before - you were using a Wells Fargo app. Here it is Apple Pay, and yes there is no one-time code, but you do have to enter your card PIN on the terminal.

tokyojimu

Many places in the U.S. require you to enter your PIN after using your debit card via Apple Pay. This is silly. In Europe, Apple Pay is so fast because no PIN is required. 

schlack

Seem like a PIN the Apple

Soli

rob53 said:

I whole idea of using Apple Pay is to reduce the number of steps.

Security is number one, but if you want to talk about "steps" then consider that you don't need to keep an ATM on your person once enough of your ATMs supports this service. PIN or no PIN I'll take the step forward.

sflocal

Entering a pin is silly, but for what it's worth, it's a step in the right direction.  I look forward to the day I just need to use TouchID (or FaceID) and that's it.  

Now bring ApplePay to gas stations!!!

robertwalter

rob53 said:

It doesn't make sense to have to enter a PIN when using Apple Pay because all your credentials have already been entered and approved when Wells Fargo approved your debit card (which I haven't done but I've enrolled my regular WF Visa credit card). I whole idea of using Apple Pay is to reduce the number of steps. This implementation doesn't do that, in fact it makes it more difficult to use since I need to activate the Apple Pay screen then enter the PIN, most likely on their screen. I might as well just stick in my card and enter the pin.

The idea here of Apple Pay might be security instead of pure convenience. By not inserting a physical card you eliminate the possibility of being a victim of skimming. 

robertwalter

We are not far from eliminating (or vastly reducing) the need to visit an ATM. 

When we can just import cash into the Apple Cash card via the debit card, and transfer this to a girl scout to pay for cookies, via iMessage, we will be there. 

robertwalter

Roger_Fingas said:

wood1208 said:

We know Wells Fargo ATM required this onetime generated PIN to enter while using ApplePay. With this news, does it mean NO MORE PIN ? or this is cut paste of old news article ?

It wasn't Apple Pay, before - you were using a Wells Fargo app. Here it is Apple Pay, and yes there is no one-time code, but you do have to enter your card PIN on the terminal.

I imagine the next step will be the option to eliminate the code and complete authentication via TouchID or FaceID. 

patchythepirate

This is great. Finally! Just added my debit card to phone and watch, totally frictionless.

It is a bit frustrating that so many are still requiring further authentication (e.g. pins, sigs) when authentication is already being done on the device. I assumed it might take some time, but it's been several years already and it seems like there's still a significant lack of adoption.

Also, still seems like merchant adoption is lagging (target, home depot, lowes, most major grocery chains, gas stations, ...), despite the recurring promises of wider adoption. I wonder what the hold up is. I'm guessing it's access to consumer behavior data. What if Apple helped facilitate loyalty card adoption in exchange for merchants to actually start accepting Apple Pay? Seems like a good compromise. Using the loyalty cards is very easy to do; I already do it at walgreens.. double tap my watch button for loyalty card, then double tap again for credit card, super simple.

Restaurants seem to be another hold up. Why can't Apple partner with a reader manufacturer to get more of these in use?

Why does Apple seem so flat-footed about Apple Pay?

StrangeDays

rob53 said:

It doesn't make sense to have to enter a PIN when using Apple Pay because all your credentials have already been entered and approved when Wells Fargo approved your debit card (which I haven't done but I've enrolled my regular WF Visa credit card). I whole idea of using Apple Pay is to reduce the number of steps. This implementation doesn't do that, in fact it makes it more difficult to use since I need to activate the Apple Pay screen then enter the PIN, most likely on their screen. I might as well just stick in my card and enter the pin.

It's two fact auth (phone, PIN). Not a big deal IMO, many retail POSTs do this as well...the main value add is the convenience of not needing my ATM card on person. 

Now, if it triggered the Apple Pay biometric authentication instead of the PIN it would still be two-factor (phone, biometric) and prolly be faster too.

StrangeDays

patchythepirate said:

This is great. Finally! Just added my debit card to phone and watch, totally frictionless.

It is a bit frustrating that so many are still requiring further authentication (e.g. pins, sigs) when authentication is already being done on the device. I assumed it might take some time, but it's been several years already and it seems like there's still a significant lack of adoption.

Also, still seems like merchant adoption is lagging (target, home depot, lowes, most major grocery chains, gas stations, ...), despite the recurring promises of wider adoption. I wonder what the hold up is. I'm guessing it's access to consumer behavior data. What if Apple helped facilitate loyalty card adoption in exchange for merchants to actually start accepting Apple Pay? Seems like a good compromise. Using the loyalty cards is very easy to do; I already do it at walgreens.. double tap my watch button for loyalty card, then double tap again for credit card, super simple.

Restaurants seem to be another hold up. Why can't Apple partner with a reader manufacturer to get more of these in use?

Why does Apple seem so flat-footed about Apple Pay?

I think you're asking about the wrong party. If your favorite retailers aren't accepting AP, and/or don't have standard NFC POSTs, you should be asking why they are so flat-footed. NFC payment is here to stay, there's no reason for retailers not to upgrade their terminals, and it has nothing to do w/ Apple or Apple provided some added benefits. NFC is NFC. It's bigger than Apple, and thankfully my grocery store and pharmacy and dry cleaners are on board.

macxpress

patchythepirate said:

This is great. Finally! Just added my debit card to phone and watch, totally frictionless.

It is a bit frustrating that so many are still requiring further authentication (e.g. pins, sigs) when authentication is already being done on the device. I assumed it might take some time, but it's been several years already and it seems like there's still a significant lack of adoption.

Also, still seems like merchant adoption is lagging (target, home depot, lowes, most major grocery chains, gas stations, ...), despite the recurring promises of wider adoption. I wonder what the hold up is. I'm guessing it's access to consumer behavior data. What if Apple helped facilitate loyalty card adoption in exchange for merchants to actually start accepting Apple Pay? Seems like a good compromise. Using the loyalty cards is very easy to do; I already do it at walgreens.. double tap my watch button for loyalty card, then double tap again for credit card, super simple.

Restaurants seem to be another hold up. Why can't Apple partner with a reader manufacturer to get more of these in use?

Why does Apple seem so flat-footed about Apple Pay?

Well guess who is in charge of ApplePay....one Eddy Cue so it will go no where until someone else takes it over. 

patchythepirate

StrangeDays said:

patchythepirate said:

This is great. Finally! Just added my debit card to phone and watch, totally frictionless.

It is a bit frustrating that so many are still requiring further authentication (e.g. pins, sigs) when authentication is already being done on the device. I assumed it might take some time, but it's been several years already and it seems like there's still a significant lack of adoption.

Also, still seems like merchant adoption is lagging (target, home depot, lowes, most major grocery chains, gas stations, ...), despite the recurring promises of wider adoption. I wonder what the hold up is. I'm guessing it's access to consumer behavior data. What if Apple helped facilitate loyalty card adoption in exchange for merchants to actually start accepting Apple Pay? Seems like a good compromise. Using the loyalty cards is very easy to do; I already do it at walgreens.. double tap my watch button for loyalty card, then double tap again for credit card, super simple.

Restaurants seem to be another hold up. Why can't Apple partner with a reader manufacturer to get more of these in use?

Why does Apple seem so flat-footed about Apple Pay?

I think you're asking about the wrong party. If your favorite retailers aren't accepting AP, and/or don't have standard NFC POSTs, you should be asking why they are so flat-footed. NFC payment is here to stay, there's no reason for retailers not to upgrade their terminals, and it has nothing to do w/ Apple or Apple provided some added benefits. NFC is NFC. It's bigger than Apple, and thankfully my grocery store and pharmacy and dry cleaners are on board.

I wish that was true. But most, if not all, of the examples I cited already have readers that are NFC capable. There are a ton of other examples I run into on a regular basis but didn't want to ramble too much.. a few others are The Container Store, Bed Bath & Beyond, CVS, walmart, Garden Centers, amazon online...

patchythepirate

macxpress said:

patchythepirate said:

This is great. Finally! Just added my debit card to phone and watch, totally frictionless.

It is a bit frustrating that so many are still requiring further authentication (e.g. pins, sigs) when authentication is already being done on the device. I assumed it might take some time, but it's been several years already and it seems like there's still a significant lack of adoption.

Also, still seems like merchant adoption is lagging (target, home depot, lowes, most major grocery chains, gas stations, ...), despite the recurring promises of wider adoption. I wonder what the hold up is. I'm guessing it's access to consumer behavior data. What if Apple helped facilitate loyalty card adoption in exchange for merchants to actually start accepting Apple Pay? Seems like a good compromise. Using the loyalty cards is very easy to do; I already do it at walgreens.. double tap my watch button for loyalty card, then double tap again for credit card, super simple.

Restaurants seem to be another hold up. Why can't Apple partner with a reader manufacturer to get more of these in use?

Why does Apple seem so flat-footed about Apple Pay?

Well guess who is in charge of ApplePay....one Eddy Cue so it will go no where until someone else takes it over. 

Maybe an article will come out in a few years about Apple Pay, the way there was an article about Apple Maps in 8/2016, with Cue explaining how "we underestimated it" and "how hard could it be?" and "we realized we isolated [Apple Pay] into a small team." This seems like Apple Maps all over again.

rob53

StrangeDays said:

rob53 said:

It doesn't make sense to have to enter a PIN when using Apple Pay because all your credentials have already been entered and approved when Wells Fargo approved your debit card (which I haven't done but I've enrolled my regular WF Visa credit card). I whole idea of using Apple Pay is to reduce the number of steps. This implementation doesn't do that, in fact it makes it more difficult to use since I need to activate the Apple Pay screen then enter the PIN, most likely on their screen. I might as well just stick in my card and enter the pin.

It's two fact auth (phone, PIN). Not a big deal IMO, many retail POSTs do this as well...the main value add is the convenience of not needing my ATM card on person. 

Now, if it triggered the Apple Pay biometric authentication instead of the PIN it would still be two-factor (phone, biometric) and prolly be faster too.

Are you suggesting that Wells Fargo doesn't require the use of TouchID to make this work? If that's the way it works, then I won't be using it. Simply having the ATM sense my phone is near it, means someone else could just as easily skim that signal. Without the authentication of TouchID, it makes no sense. 

BTW: Just having the phone isn't considered one factor in two-factor authentication unless it's capable of generating a unique (not hackable) "factor". Maybe it is capable of generating a unique factor with the NFC connection but I wonder if that signal is skim-able. Typically, ID cards have RFC chips in them so along with a PIN generator, it's two factor (spent too many years dealing with this at work).

shapetables

Do they open a new bank account for you every time you use it?

chasm

sflocal said:

Entering a pin is silly, but for what it's worth, it's a step in the right direction.  I look forward to the day I just need to use TouchID (or FaceID) and that's it.  

Now bring ApplePay to gas stations!!!

I have used Apple Pay at Exxon stations in the US. It's not too common in Canada yet, however, despite the fact that Apple Pay works at nearly any retail POS terminal (seriously, it's staggering compared to the US). I guess the gas pumps need to be upgraded with more tech to accept tap cards (that's all that is needed), and apparently chains are either reluctant to do that or want to use their own system (hello, speedpass) or are just rolling it out very slowly.