iPhone 11 Pro Max vs Samsung Galaxy S20+ - the best ultra-premium smartphones

Posted:
in iPhone edited February 2020
Samsung has made sure that Apple's iPhone 11 Pro Max and the new Galaxy S20+ are direct competitors. With Samsung pushing further into the ultra-premium range with the Galaxy S20 Ultra, does Apple still offer enough to the prosumer six months after the release of the iPhone 11 Pro Max?

iPhone 11 Pro Max vs Galaxy S20+ vs Galaxy S20 Ultra
iPhone 11 Pro Max vs Galaxy S20+ vs Galaxy S20 Ultra


The iPhone 11 Pro Max was launched in late September 2019 alongside the iPhone 11 and iPhone 11 Pro. The iPhone 11 Pro Max is at the top of Apple's iPhone lineup, but its bigger screen and battery are all that set it apart from the smaller iPhone 11 Pro. The current iPhones in the lineup are capable of 4K 60fps video, algorithmically generated photos using a new neural engine in the A13 Bionic chip, and have better screens than ever seen in an iPhone before.

Samsung announced four new smartphones at their Galaxy Unpacked 2020 event and gave us some insane specs to examine. This will compare the Galaxy S20+ and Galaxy S20 Ultra to the iPhone 11 Pro Max, which are the tops of their respective lineups. The new Samsung phones have an all new rear camera system, have relocated the front facing "hole punch" camera to the top center of the screen, have an aluminum and glass frame, and feature a new flat screen rather than one that curves off the edge of the device.

Comparing the specs of iPhone 11 Pro Max vs Galaxy S20+ vs Galaxy S20 Ultra

Samsung debuted three new phones in their product line during the Galaxy Unpacked event. Instead Samsung aimed higher than it ever has before with an ultra-premium phone that does not have a direct price competitor from Apple. The iPhone 11 Pro Max does pack some impressive specs, however, despite being half a year older.

iPhone 11 Pro MaxGalaxy S20+Galaxy S20 Ultra
Price$1,099$1,199$1,399
Dimensions (inches)6.22 x 3.06 x 0.326.37 x 2.9 x 0.316.57 x 2.99 x 0.35
Weight (ounces)7.976.567.76
ProcessorA13 BionicSnapdragon 865Snapdragon 865
RAM4GB12GB12GB
16GB w/512GB storage
Storage64GB, 256GB, 512GB128GB, 256,512
add up to 1TB with microSD
128GB, 256GB, 512GB
add up to 1TB with microSD
Display type6.5-inch Super Retina XDR (OLED HDR)6.7-inch AMOLED Infinity-O Display6.9-inch Infinity-O Display
Resolution2688x1242 pixels at 458ppi 3200x1400 pixels at 525ppi3200x1400 pixels at 511ppi
Screen refresh60Hz60Hz at full resolution
120Hz at 1080p
60Hz at full resolution
120Hz at 1080p
PortsLightning and no headphone jackUSB-C and no headphone jackUSB-C and no headphone jack
Networking4G LTE5G (sub 6-GHz/mmWave)5G (sub-6GHz/mmWave)
Rear Cameras12MP wide angle
12MP ultra-wide angle
12MP telephoto (2x optical)
12MP wide angle
12MP ultra-wide angle
64MP telephoto (3x optical)
DepthVision Camera with Space Zoom
108MP wide angle (12MP with Pixel Binning)
12MP ultra-wide angle
48MP telephoto (3x optical)
DepthVision Camera with Space Zoom
Front Cameras12MP with TrueDepth sensors10MP40MP (10MP with Pixel Binning)
Battery Size3,969 mAh4,500 mAh5,000 mAh
ColorsSpace Gray, Midnight Green, Silver, GoldCosmic Black, Cosmic Gray, Cloud BlueCosmic Black, Cosmic Gray


The specs between the three premium devices are mostly similar, with Samsung pulling out some huge numbers to differentiate itself. Large batteries, more RAM, and high resolution cameras are the norm for Android flagships, but the Galaxy S20+ and Galaxy S20 Ultra take it to a new level. Despite these huge numbers from Samsung, it seems the iPhone 11 Pro Max competes well, and may offer a better value at its lower price.

Photography

iPhone 11 Pro Max (left) and Galaxy S20+ (right) both offer low light photography
iPhone 11 Pro Max (left) and Galaxy S20+ (right) both offer low light photography

iPhone 11 Pro Max

The iPhone 11 Pro Max has a three sensor array on the rear of the phone, and a front facing TrueDepth camera system. All of the cameras feature 12MP sensors capable of 4K HDR video, and slo-motion 1080p video. When recording in 30fps, the iPhone will use its fast neural engine to capture different exposures every other frame and stitch them into the 30fps video which will extend the dynamic range.

The iPhone 11 Pro Max has one of the highest rated camera systems in the industry. Each sensor and lens are calibrated in the factory to ensure that every photo and video are accurate and no distortion or change is seen when switching between them.

Software features like Live Photo, Portrait Mode, and even Animoji all rely on Apple's fine tuning of its cameras and neural engine. For iPhone, its less about specs on paper and more about the experience and usable end result.

The neural processor on the iPhone 11 Pro Max can combine 9 photos into one detailed image using Deep Fusion
The neural processor on the iPhone 11 Pro Max can combine 9 photos into one detailed image using Deep Fusion

Samsung Galaxy S20+

The Samsung Galaxy S20+ has a four sensor array on the rear of the phone and a single camera on the front. The rear sensors consist of three cameras and a time-of-flight sensor. The ultra-wide and wide angle lens are comparable to the iPhone 11 Pro Max, and are also 12MP. The telephoto lens is turned on its side and utilizes a mirror to allow more distance between the lens and sensor, thus creating a 3x optical zoom at 64MP.

The attention-grabber here is obviously that 64MP camera, and its 8K video capability. When shooting with the telephoto lens, you can use Samsung's ML run "Super Resolution Zoom" and get up to 30x zoom. This is accomplished utilizing the 10x digital crop and 3x optical zoom, just as iPhone achieves its own 10x zoom with a 5x crop and 2x optical zoom.

Samsung Galaxy S20 Ultra

While the iPhone and Galaxy phones both show some impressive features and specs, Samsung's Galaxy S20 Ultra pulls out all the stops. It has the same rear four sensor array and single front facing camera, but with the specs turned all the way up. Only the ultra-wide and TOF sensor stay the same as the Galaxy S20+ on this device.

The telephoto camera is again turned on its side, but additional optics make it a 10x optical zoom. This means when paired with the 10x digital zoom you can get a massive 100x combined zoom! While impressive, the demos show that detail loss is quite huge at this range and a tripod might be required to prevent hand shake from ruining photos. Nevertheless, an impressive spec to say the least.

The Samsung Galaxy S20 Ultra is capable of up to 100x zoom
The Samsung Galaxy S20 Ultra is capable of up to 100x zoom


The standard wide angle camera is blown up to 108MP. At first glance this probably looks like a mistake or a typo, but Samsung assures us its a genuine 108MP sensor. There is a caveat though, so no, you will not be taking actual 108MP photos, at least not by default. Samsung has implemented a recent technology called "pixel binning" which allows pixels to be essentially combined while taking a photo.

Since this device uses a 9 to 1 pixel binning ratio, you'll end up with a 12MP photo, but a more detailed and better lit photo due to the process. It will require some hands on testing to determine if this translates to noticeable increases in quality, or if its just another big numbers game.

The front-facing camera on the Galaxy S20 Ultra also has a huge spec bump. Utilizing 4 to 1 pixel binning, this camera has a 40MP sensor and shoots 10MP selfies. The front-facing camera is capable of recording at 4K on both Samsung devices as well.

Software features include Samsung's own portrait mode on the front and rear cameras. The rear camera is able to take advantage of its time of flight sensor for more accurate bokeh and object detection. A new feature introduced during the Galaxy Unboxed event, called "Single Take," allows users to pan their phone around a scene for 10 seconds while an ML algorithm takes photos and video in various formats. The final result is a bunch of different media that can be used and shared by the user, and all done without needing to decide which feature to use in the moment.

4G, 5G, and mmWave

The iPhone 11 Pro Max still runs at the same 4G LTE we've been using for years. When it launched in 2019 5G was only just seeing proper installation and activation in the biggest US cities. Even now 5G has barely trickled out into other cities in the US and a slow global rollout overall. Rumors point to a 5G iPhone this fall, but for the average user you will not notice a difference between the two anyway -- today, at least.

While 5G is still being rolled out across the US, users can already get better than 4G speeds in some areas. While not the gigabit speeds promised by "full 5G," it is still much faster than the current 4G speeds, and can sometimes cross into hundreds of Mbps. This is referred to as sub-6GHz 5G and is being used alongside 4G equipment to quicken the rollout. T-mobile and Sprint are focusing on this technology.

The faster mmWave has its own limitations, and may take even longer, if ever, to roll out across the entire US. This version of 5G operates at very high radio frequencies, all the way up to 300GHz, and while it can transfer massive amounts of data very fast it can't do so efficiently. Effectively, mmWave is blocked by any material, and is only able to work within line of sight of a receiver, and at a close range. Walls, glass, and even other people can severely limit if not altogether block a mmWave 5G signal.

The Galaxy S20+ and Galaxy S20 Ultra both support mmWave and sub-6GHz signals. This means that out of the box these devices can utilize whatever 5G network is available, and will be launching across all major carriers in the US, including Verizon. Buying one of these devices will mean being future proofed for the 5G rollout, but when you'll see noticeable impact from this feature is unknown.

The "iPhone 12" that will launch in fall 2020 is rumored to have 5G capabilities. No word yet on which kind of 5G Apple will implement, if any.

Samsung Galaxy S20+ and Galaxy S20 Ultra color options
Samsung Galaxy S20+ and Galaxy S20 Ultra color options

Specs sheets vs reality

Apple has always gone for what works best with minimal user input. There are various camera systems and software features that all occur without a user ever touching a settings menu. Apple's approach is to let software get out of the way and offer an end result to the user that is both natural and high quality. This is the approach taken throughout iPhone and its specs.

This can be seen with how the camera operates; the user points and shoots and ends up with the best photo possible in that moment after a billion operations occur in that instant. Diving into menus to change how the camera operates is an option, but not something Apple pushes users to do.

Samsung takes the opposite approach; there are plenty of new features in their flagship devices, but some caveats as well. While the spec sheets show 108MP photos and 120Hz screens, this isn't the experience that users will actually have. First, a setting must be changed and a compromise take place, like a with the screen being 120Hz but only at 1080p.

It isn't yet known if you can force the camera to take 108MP stills, and Samsung's own documentation isn't clear, so testing is still required. Even if it is possible, due to the small pixel size, the photos likely wont come out as crisp or as bright as we'd like. And such a setting again would be buried in a menu.

While photo styling, software, OS, and other factors will weigh on a purchasers decision more than anything, it is worth noting that the experience promised on paper isn't going to perfectly reflect reality.

Due to these limitations and caveats that go along with almost every new feature announced, it is hard to say if Samsung has truly gained a leg up on the iPhone. The Galaxy S20+ is $100 more expensive than the base iPhone 11 Pro, and has very similar specs. For $50 more than the Galaxy S20+, consumers can buy an iPhone 11 Pro Max with twice the internal memory.

For the Galaxy S20 Ultra, the difference is even greater. For $50 more than the base Galaxy S20 Ultra, a consumer can get an iPhone with four times the internal storage. The camera specs and 5G make Samsung's phone stand out, but you're not getting as much as it seems.






AppleInsider reviewed the iPhone 11 Pro Max and gave it a 4.5 out of 5. Stay tuned for hands on content featuring Samsung's new phones and how they compare to the iPhone 11 Pro Max.

We'll be looking closer at Samsung's new offerings as soon as we get our hands on them. And, we'll be comparing them to Apple's 2020 lineup when the time comes as well. Meanwhile, you can see how the iPhone 11 Pro and Samsung Galaxy S20 also compared.

Where to buy

Pre-orders for the Samsung Galaxy S20, Galaxy S20+ and Galaxy S20 Ultra begin at 12:01 a.m. Eastern on Feb. 21, with Samsung offering bonus trade-in values for Apple users.

B&H will also begin accepting orders on Feb. 21 with free 2-day shipping on the Galaxy S20 models.

Meanwhile, those looking to purchase an iPhone 11 can find aggressive carrier offers in our iPhone 11 deals roundup.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 20
    badmonkbadmonk Posts: 1,295member
    and some of us are still waiting on what Samsung is promising for biometrics on these phones....perhaps one of the most critical features in this day and age.  These devices are, after all, personal computing devices, not just cameras.
  • Reply 2 of 20
    mike1mike1 Posts: 3,286member
    Remember the outrage when Apple dared to launch a phone at $999. 
    cy_starkmanfastasleepradarthekatesummerstoysandmemwhitejcs2305jony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 20
    Wesley HilliardWesley Hilliard Posts: 190member, administrator, moderator, editor
    badmonk said:
    and some of us are still waiting on what Samsung is promising for biometrics on these phones....perhaps one of the most critical features in this day and age.  These devices are, after all, personal computing devices, not just cameras.
    Samsung offers in screen fingerprint scanning, just like its previous generation. The same facial recognition and other security features were carried over from the S10 series, so it wasn’t included in the comparison, since it had not been updated.
    Carnage
  • Reply 4 of 20
    It's like putting a massive big-rig engine into a Volkswagen bug with square wheels. The usability and OS experience is all that matters at the end of the day. Has Samsung made the UI as smooth and slick as iOS? I've seen some screenshots that indicate it's a close cousin now. 
    pulseimagesradarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 20
    badmonk said:
    and some of us are still waiting on what Samsung is promising for biometrics on these phones....perhaps one of the most critical features in this day and age.  These devices are, after all, personal computing devices, not just cameras.

    Why are you waiting for Samsung to give this to you when Apple already does? Seems like your problem is solved?

    pulseimagesradarthekatBeatswatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 20
    KITAKITA Posts: 393member
    It's worth noting that the S20, S20+ and S20 Ultra all sample touch at 240 Hz. For comparison, the iPhone 11 Pro only samples at 120 Hz.

    This makes a huge difference on how the device reacts to touch.
    chemengin1
  • Reply 7 of 20
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,372member
    KITA said:
    It's worth noting that the S20, S20+ and S20 Ultra all sample touch at 240 Hz. For comparison, the iPhone 11 Pro only samples at 120 Hz.

    This makes a huge difference on how the device reacts to touch.
    Maybe, maybe not. It really depends on what real world process or input, like tracking a moving stylus or coincidence detection of a short lived multiple touch, you are trying to capture with the sampling. The rule of thumb for the minimum sampling rate to completely capture all of the information contained in the input, otherwise known as the Nyquist-Shannon Sampling Theorem, is to sample at at least 2-times the frequency of the event. A reasonable way to test this visually would be to use a test fixture that moves a stylus through a series of patterns at various velocities across the screen and figure out at what point the pattern is no longer captured with full fidelity because the input is not being sampled at a high enough frequency.

    There is obviously going to be a difference in performance between 120 Hz and 240 Hz sampling. However, if the stylus velocity where the higher sample rate provides a benefit does not correspond to anything a user would ever do in the course of using the device then the over sampling will have no user benefit but simply consume more power. 

    Are there any published demonstrations where the 240 Hz sampling is shown to deliver a “huge difference” in user experience?
    pulseimagesradarthekatchabigbeeble42watto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 20
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,843moderator

    Dimensions (inches)

    iPhone 11 Pro Max
    6.22 x 3.06 x 0.32

    Galaxy S20+
    6.37 x 2.9 x 0.31

    Galaxy S20 Ultra
    6.57 x 2.99 x 0.35

    Anyone else cringe at the width of the Galaxy models?  Enemy the Ultra is not as wide as the iPhone and it’s nearly 1/3” taller.  The iPhone 11 Pro Max (I have one) seems a perfect aspect ratio.  Those Galaxies look too narrow.  
    toysandmeking editor the gratemwhitewatto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 20
    The horse race continues in a predictable fashion:  Apple releases a new phone in the fall and takes the hardware lead.  Then Samsung releases its new phone 6 months later and takes the hardware lead.    Back and forth.   Back and forth.   Which is fine -- because the winner of this horse race are us, the users and customers.

    But what Apple has and what sets Apple apart is its outstanding software (led by iOS) and its ecosystem.  No other vendor can compete with that because it provides a level of stability, reliability and support that no other vendor can match:   Aside from Apple's outstanding privacy features, for example:   Lose your phone?   Find it with "Find My" and, if necessary lock and erase the phone.   Then find the nearest Apple store and, in less than an hour, they will give you a new phone via your AppleCare+ fully restored with all of your apps and data from the old phone.   In total, you lost an hour (plus the $200 or so for your replacement phone).  And that doesn't even touch on how your other Apple products interface and interact with your iPhone so seamlessly.

    The hardware wars will continue.   But Apple has the software and ecosystem all locked down with a solid win.
    mwhitewatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 20
    Competition is always good. Thank you ^_^

    but some cheaper phones please : P... looking much forward to the rumoured iPhone 9/SE2.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 20
    Specs in the "Processor" category are significantly different with Apple having a huge lead, but spec-to-spec comparisons are often misleading since they don't show the whole picture or are hard to quantify with a single number or spec.  There are legitimate reasons to choose Android, but technology-wise it is hard to compete with Apple's control of the whole stack.  For example iPhones are much more efficient with their RAM use due to no garbage collection overhead, more efficient resource utilization in background processes, and more efficient at offloading inactive memory to SSD.   You can basically double the iPhone RAM specs for the sake of comparison with Android.  Apple's processor is significantly more advanced than anything offered by Qualcomm putting it in a league of its own.   Apple's battery chemistry is very good, but there is no specification to show that.  Apple could easily match RAM or battery size specs, but it chooses not to because it doesn't matter.  Android generally gets earlier access to commodity tech like the latest cellular chips due to release cycle differences.  You are also comparing last years iPhone with this years Samsung phone.  I don't know enough to compare the large camera MP difference when not using binning (although Apple seems better in the typical case 12MP vs 10MP), but I assume that is due to the huge camera array on the Samsung.  I'm not sure if that tradeoff makes sense for an iPhone, but I'm sure it will attract someone to the S20 Ultra.
    edited February 2020 dewmewatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 20
    M68000M68000 Posts: 727member
    esummers said:
    Specs in the "Processor" category are significantly different with Apple having a huge lead, but spec-to-spec comparisons are often misleading since they don't show the whole picture or are hard to quantify with a single number or spec.  There are legitimate reasons to choose Android, but technology-wise it is hard to compete with Apple's control of the whole stack.  For example iPhones are much more efficient with their RAM use due to no garbage collection overhead, more efficient resource utilization in background processes, and more efficient at offloading inactive memory to SSD.   You can basically double the iPhone RAM specs for the sake of comparison with Android.  Apple's processor is significantly more advanced than anything offered by Qualcomm putting it in a league of its own.   Apple's battery chemistry is very good, but there is no specification to show that.  Apple could easily match RAM or battery size specs, but it chooses not to because it doesn't matter.  Android generally gets earlier access to commodity tech like the latest cellular chips due to release cycle differences.  You are also comparing last years iPhone with this years Samsung phone.  I don't know enough to compare the large camera MP difference when not using binning (although Apple seems better in the typical case 12MP vs 10MP), but I assume that is due to the huge camera array on the Samsung.  I'm not sure if that tradeoff makes sense for an iPhone, but I'm sure it will attract someone to the S20 Ultra.
    "Apple could easily match RAM or battery size specs, but it chooses not to because it doesn't matter".   Well,  not sure I'm buying into that statement about batteries.  I would take a 4500 or 5000 Milli amp hour battery over a 4000 or lower battery every time.  It's tiring to see Apple behind in this area.   I agree with Georgebmac's comments about iOS and applications being so compelling to use iPhones, totally agree. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 20
    BeatsBeats Posts: 3,073member
    M68000 said:
    esummers said:
    Specs in the "Processor" category are significantly different with Apple having a huge lead, but spec-to-spec comparisons are often misleading since they don't show the whole picture or are hard to quantify with a single number or spec.  There are legitimate reasons to choose Android, but technology-wise it is hard to compete with Apple's control of the whole stack.  For example iPhones are much more efficient with their RAM use due to no garbage collection overhead, more efficient resource utilization in background processes, and more efficient at offloading inactive memory to SSD.   You can basically double the iPhone RAM specs for the sake of comparison with Android.  Apple's processor is significantly more advanced than anything offered by Qualcomm putting it in a league of its own.   Apple's battery chemistry is very good, but there is no specification to show that.  Apple could easily match RAM or battery size specs, but it chooses not to because it doesn't matter.  Android generally gets earlier access to commodity tech like the latest cellular chips due to release cycle differences.  You are also comparing last years iPhone with this years Samsung phone.  I don't know enough to compare the large camera MP difference when not using binning (although Apple seems better in the typical case 12MP vs 10MP), but I assume that is due to the huge camera array on the Samsung.  I'm not sure if that tradeoff makes sense for an iPhone, but I'm sure it will attract someone to the S20 Ultra.
    "Apple could easily match RAM or battery size specs, but it chooses not to because it doesn't matter".   Well,  not sure I'm buying into that statement about batteries.  I would take a 4500 or 5000 Milli amp hour battery over a 4000 or lower battery every time.  It's tiring to see Apple behind in this area.   I agree with Georgebmac's comments about iOS and applications being so compelling to use iPhones, totally agree. 

    And I prefer a 6000 Milli to a 5000. What you need to understand is Apple develops it's own OS so it's far more efficient than Samsungs iPhoney.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 20
    M68000M68000 Posts: 727member
    Beats said:
    M68000 said:
    esummers said:
    Specs in the "Processor" category are significantly different with Apple having a huge lead, but spec-to-spec comparisons are often misleading since they don't show the whole picture or are hard to quantify with a single number or spec.  There are legitimate reasons to choose Android, but technology-wise it is hard to compete with Apple's control of the whole stack.  For example iPhones are much more efficient with their RAM use due to no garbage collection overhead, more efficient resource utilization in background processes, and more efficient at offloading inactive memory to SSD.   You can basically double the iPhone RAM specs for the sake of comparison with Android.  Apple's processor is significantly more advanced than anything offered by Qualcomm putting it in a league of its own.   Apple's battery chemistry is very good, but there is no specification to show that.  Apple could easily match RAM or battery size specs, but it chooses not to because it doesn't matter.  Android generally gets earlier access to commodity tech like the latest cellular chips due to release cycle differences.  You are also comparing last years iPhone with this years Samsung phone.  I don't know enough to compare the large camera MP difference when not using binning (although Apple seems better in the typical case 12MP vs 10MP), but I assume that is due to the huge camera array on the Samsung.  I'm not sure if that tradeoff makes sense for an iPhone, but I'm sure it will attract someone to the S20 Ultra.
    "Apple could easily match RAM or battery size specs, but it chooses not to because it doesn't matter".   Well,  not sure I'm buying into that statement about batteries.  I would take a 4500 or 5000 Milli amp hour battery over a 4000 or lower battery every time.  It's tiring to see Apple behind in this area.   I agree with Georgebmac's comments about iOS and applications being so compelling to use iPhones, totally agree. 

    And I prefer a 6000 Milli to a 5000. What you need to understand is Apple develops it's own OS so it's far more efficient than Samsungs iPhoney.
    But it’s always about specs when talking about iPhone versus android,  remove other factors that may exist.  It’s always about hardware when android users speak.  So therefore,  a 6000 milli battery is better than a 5000 regardless.
  • Reply 15 of 20
    M68000 said:
    esummers said:
    Specs in the "Processor" category are significantly different with Apple having a huge lead, but spec-to-spec comparisons are often misleading since they don't show the whole picture or are hard to quantify with a single number or spec.  There are legitimate reasons to choose Android, but technology-wise it is hard to compete with Apple's control of the whole stack.  For example iPhones are much more efficient with their RAM use due to no garbage collection overhead, more efficient resource utilization in background processes, and more efficient at offloading inactive memory to SSD.   You can basically double the iPhone RAM specs for the sake of comparison with Android.  Apple's processor is significantly more advanced than anything offered by Qualcomm putting it in a league of its own.   Apple's battery chemistry is very good, but there is no specification to show that.  Apple could easily match RAM or battery size specs, but it chooses not to because it doesn't matter.  Android generally gets earlier access to commodity tech like the latest cellular chips due to release cycle differences.  You are also comparing last years iPhone with this years Samsung phone.  I don't know enough to compare the large camera MP difference when not using binning (although Apple seems better in the typical case 12MP vs 10MP), but I assume that is due to the huge camera array on the Samsung.  I'm not sure if that tradeoff makes sense for an iPhone, but I'm sure it will attract someone to the S20 Ultra.
    "Apple could easily match RAM or battery size specs, but it chooses not to because it doesn't matter".   Well,  not sure I'm buying into that statement about batteries.  I would take a 4500 or 5000 Milli amp hour battery over a 4000 or lower battery every time.  It's tiring to see Apple behind in this area.   I agree with Georgebmac's comments about iOS and applications being so compelling to use iPhones, totally agree. 
    I used a 5S for years, then had X for two years; the battery life on my 11 Pro is pernt near insane. I've rarely seen it below 50 percent and am often in 60s-70s toward end of day.
    chadbagwatto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 20
    jcs2305jcs2305 Posts: 1,337member
    M68000 said:
    esummers said:
    Specs in the "Processor" category are significantly different with Apple having a huge lead, but spec-to-spec comparisons are often misleading since they don't show the whole picture or are hard to quantify with a single number or spec.  There are legitimate reasons to choose Android, but technology-wise it is hard to compete with Apple's control of the whole stack.  For example iPhones are much more efficient with their RAM use due to no garbage collection overhead, more efficient resource utilization in background processes, and more efficient at offloading inactive memory to SSD.   You can basically double the iPhone RAM specs for the sake of comparison with Android.  Apple's processor is significantly more advanced than anything offered by Qualcomm putting it in a league of its own.   Apple's battery chemistry is very good, but there is no specification to show that.  Apple could easily match RAM or battery size specs, but it chooses not to because it doesn't matter.  Android generally gets earlier access to commodity tech like the latest cellular chips due to release cycle differences.  You are also comparing last years iPhone with this years Samsung phone.  I don't know enough to compare the large camera MP difference when not using binning (although Apple seems better in the typical case 12MP vs 10MP), but I assume that is due to the huge camera array on the Samsung.  I'm not sure if that tradeoff makes sense for an iPhone, but I'm sure it will attract someone to the S20 Ultra.
    "Apple could easily match RAM or battery size specs, but it chooses not to because it doesn't matter".   Well,  not sure I'm buying into that statement about batteries.  I would take a 4500 or 5000 Milli amp hour battery over a 4000 or lower battery every time.  It's tiring to see Apple behind in this area.   I agree with Georgebmac's comments about iOS and applications being so compelling to use iPhones, totally agree. 
    I use my Pro Max 2 days on a charge with juice left at the end of the 2nd day? What area besides actual battery size are they behind in?

    king editor the gratewatto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 20
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,694member
    esummers said:
    Specs in the "Processor" category are significantly different with Apple having a huge lead, but spec-to-spec comparisons are often misleading since they don't show the whole picture or are hard to quantify with a single number or spec.  There are legitimate reasons to choose Android, but technology-wise it is hard to compete with Apple's control of the whole stack.  For example iPhones are much more efficient with their RAM use due to no garbage collection overhead, more efficient resource utilization in background processes, and more efficient at offloading inactive memory to SSD.   You can basically double the iPhone RAM specs for the sake of comparison with Android.  Apple's processor is significantly more advanced than anything offered by Qualcomm putting it in a league of its own.   Apple's battery chemistry is very good, but there is no specification to show that.  Apple could easily match RAM or battery size specs, but it chooses not to because it doesn't matter.  Android generally gets earlier access to commodity tech like the latest cellular chips due to release cycle differences.  You are also comparing last years iPhone with this years Samsung phone.  I don't know enough to compare the large camera MP difference when not using binning (although Apple seems better in the typical case 12MP vs 10MP), but I assume that is due to the huge camera array on the Samsung.  I'm not sure if that tradeoff makes sense for an iPhone, but I'm sure it will attract someone to the S20 Ultra.
    Both Samsung and Huawei also control the whole stack even if they share the same base version of Android. In fact, it can be argued that as a result of the respective control of their own stacks, they have added more than Apple has added over the last few years. 

    That is precisely why Apple has been playing catch-up for the last few years in key areas of smartphones. What those two add to Android is much more than skins.

    As has been commented widely since the S20 series reveal, the specs are not simply 'better' with regards to showing the 'whole picture' or being able to 'quantify'. Many claim that the Ultra has broken into an entirely new tier. I can see why, at least on paper. Later we will see what happens in the real world.

    In the article, I don't quite understand the comment that the specs are 'mostly similar'. Yes, there are gotchas in there, but the Ultra specs are on a different level in key areas. 

    In battery technology, Apple has lagged and still lags. Even with their control of the whole stack, they have seen competitors take the lead. Still shipping a 5W charger with the iPhone 11 shouldn't be something we are talking about in 2020. I would go as far to say that mobile users in general share the same use patterns independently of intensity and that it wasn't until Apple upped the capacities, that users really noticed an improvement. It was a good move. The ultra will have to show its worth in this area but for the last few years the real stamina has largely been in Android phones.

    In real terms, the RAM inefficiency of Android, while real, is irrelevant to the user. In fact, plenty of Android phones have been shown to perform 'better' in everyday use. Huawei a few years ago, went as far as to make the claim 'Born Fast, Stays Fast' to make the point. A point it could make because of its control of the stack. Apple could increase RAM but the resulting efficiency gains possibly wouldn't be noticeable in everyday use. Users of either platform just don't run into many issues here.

    Apple's processors (SoCs) are definitely not 'significantly' more advanced. They do not have modems on the SoC for example. The proof of that, is that no flagship phone is seen to be lacking in that department and if the associated hardware isn't there (that stack again), there is little to be done. Huawei and Google were doing computational photography long before Deep Fusion but Huawei has done far more on the camera end to get the raw data - into - the SoC. Something the Ultra is also doing with the pixel binning they have implemented. As demonstrated by Huawei, pixel binning has performed well. I believe Samsung calls its pixel binning by a different name btw.

    The commodity cellular chips have been a limiting factor, not so much due to release cycles, but because of supplier choice. Of course Huawei's home grown modems have not been an option for Apple anyway so any failings on that front are purely down to Apple and, in part, down to strategic decisions. Those decisions may have been well thought out and clearly intel was considered good enough even though it was behind competing modems. Apple took a strategic decision that locked out its best supplier. It had to make do with intel and time seems to proven it wasn't the best choice for consumers.

    The comparing to last year's phone is quite an empty statement. Apple traditionally releases just one cycle per year and at the high end, they seem content to continue that way. Samsung releases two major updates per year, one of which coincides with Apple's cycle and the other gives them a competitive edge over Apple that we are seeing with the S20 series. Obviously they will milk it for all it's worth. Comparisons will be made and that is normal. The iPhone was released five months ago and we have to accept that Apple doesn't look like altering that strategy. In reality it is the cores of these phones that are on different cycles. Qualcomm normally announces new SoCs towards the end of the  year which appear (in volume) in phones early in the following year. Apple announces and releases a new Soc late in the year.

    The Ultra definitely looks to be the one to set the bar going forward. Apple has to wait until September to have another go. Huawei will announce the P40 in a few weeks. Samsung the Note 20 and then the Mate 40 from Huawei. At least Apple is back in the running if not at the head of the pack.




  • Reply 18 of 20
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    avon b7 said:
    esummers said:
    Specs in the "Processor" category are significantly different with Apple having a huge lead, but spec-to-spec comparisons are often misleading since they don't show the whole picture or are hard to quantify with a single number or spec.  There are legitimate reasons to choose Android, but technology-wise it is hard to compete with Apple's control of the whole stack.  For example iPhones are much more efficient with their RAM use due to no garbage collection overhead, more efficient resource utilization in background processes, and more efficient at offloading inactive memory to SSD.   You can basically double the iPhone RAM specs for the sake of comparison with Android.  Apple's processor is significantly more advanced than anything offered by Qualcomm putting it in a league of its own.   Apple's battery chemistry is very good, but there is no specification to show that.  Apple could easily match RAM or battery size specs, but it chooses not to because it doesn't matter.  Android generally gets earlier access to commodity tech like the latest cellular chips due to release cycle differences.  You are also comparing last years iPhone with this years Samsung phone.  I don't know enough to compare the large camera MP difference when not using binning (although Apple seems better in the typical case 12MP vs 10MP), but I assume that is due to the huge camera array on the Samsung.  I'm not sure if that tradeoff makes sense for an iPhone, but I'm sure it will attract someone to the S20 Ultra.
    Both Samsung and Huawei also control the whole stack even if they share the same base version of Android. In fact, it can be argued that as a result of the respective control of their own stacks, they have added more than Apple has added over the last few years. 

    That is precisely why Apple has been playing catch-up for the last few years in key areas of smartphones. What those two add to Android is much more than skins.

    As has been commented widely since the S20 series reveal, the specs are not simply 'better' with regards to showing the 'whole picture' or being able to 'quantify'. Many claim that the Ultra has broken into an entirely new tier. I can see why, at least on paper. Later we will see what happens in the real world.

    In the article, I don't quite understand the comment that the specs are 'mostly similar'. Yes, there are gotchas in there, but the Ultra specs are on a different level in key areas. 

    In battery technology, Apple has lagged and still lags. Even with their control of the whole stack, they have seen competitors take the lead. Still shipping a 5W charger with the iPhone 11 shouldn't be something we are talking about in 2020. I would go as far to say that mobile users in general share the same use patterns independently of intensity and that it wasn't until Apple upped the capacities, that users really noticed an improvement. It was a good move. The ultra will have to show its worth in this area but for the last few years the real stamina has largely been in Android phones.

    In real terms, the RAM inefficiency of Android, while real, is irrelevant to the user. In fact, plenty of Android phones have been shown to perform 'better' in everyday use. Huawei a few years ago, went as far as to make the claim 'Born Fast, Stays Fast' to make the point. A point it could make because of its control of the stack. Apple could increase RAM but the resulting efficiency gains possibly wouldn't be noticeable in everyday use. Users of either platform just don't run into many issues here.

    Apple's processors (SoCs) are definitely not 'significantly' more advanced. They do not have modems on the SoC for example. The proof of that, is that no flagship phone is seen to be lacking in that department and if the associated hardware isn't there (that stack again), there is little to be done. Huawei and Google were doing computational photography long before Deep Fusion but Huawei has done far more on the camera end to get the raw data - into - the SoC. Something the Ultra is also doing with the pixel binning they have implemented. As demonstrated by Huawei, pixel binning has performed well. I believe Samsung calls its pixel binning by a different name btw.

    The commodity cellular chips have been a limiting factor, not so much due to release cycles, but because of supplier choice. Of course Huawei's home grown modems have not been an option for Apple anyway so any failings on that front are purely down to Apple and, in part, down to strategic decisions. Those decisions may have been well thought out and clearly intel was considered good enough even though it was behind competing modems. Apple took a strategic decision that locked out its best supplier. It had to make do with intel and time seems to proven it wasn't the best choice for consumers.

    The comparing to last year's phone is quite an empty statement. Apple traditionally releases just one cycle per year and at the high end, they seem content to continue that way. Samsung releases two major updates per year, one of which coincides with Apple's cycle and the other gives them a competitive edge over Apple that we are seeing with the S20 series. Obviously they will milk it for all it's worth. Comparisons will be made and that is normal. The iPhone was released five months ago and we have to accept that Apple doesn't look like altering that strategy. In reality it is the cores of these phones that are on different cycles. Qualcomm normally announces new SoCs towards the end of the  year which appear (in volume) in phones early in the following year. Apple announces and releases a new Soc late in the year.

    The Ultra definitely looks to be the one to set the bar going forward. Apple has to wait until September to have another go. Huawei will announce the P40 in a few weeks. Samsung the Note 20 and then the Mate 40 from Huawei. At least Apple is back in the running if not at the head of the pack.





    Yeh, but neither has iOS, Apple's reputation for privacy (because Google is not involved) nor do they have Apple's ecosystem.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 20
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 1,278member
    M68000 said:
    Beats said:
    M68000 said:
    esummers said:
    Specs in the "Processor" category are significantly different with Apple having a huge lead, but spec-to-spec comparisons are often misleading since they don't show the whole picture or are hard to quantify with a single number or spec.  There are legitimate reasons to choose Android, but technology-wise it is hard to compete with Apple's control of the whole stack.  For example iPhones are much more efficient with their RAM use due to no garbage collection overhead, more efficient resource utilization in background processes, and more efficient at offloading inactive memory to SSD.   You can basically double the iPhone RAM specs for the sake of comparison with Android.  Apple's processor is significantly more advanced than anything offered by Qualcomm putting it in a league of its own.   Apple's battery chemistry is very good, but there is no specification to show that.  Apple could easily match RAM or battery size specs, but it chooses not to because it doesn't matter.  Android generally gets earlier access to commodity tech like the latest cellular chips due to release cycle differences.  You are also comparing last years iPhone with this years Samsung phone.  I don't know enough to compare the large camera MP difference when not using binning (although Apple seems better in the typical case 12MP vs 10MP), but I assume that is due to the huge camera array on the Samsung.  I'm not sure if that tradeoff makes sense for an iPhone, but I'm sure it will attract someone to the S20 Ultra.
    "Apple could easily match RAM or battery size specs, but it chooses not to because it doesn't matter".   Well,  not sure I'm buying into that statement about batteries.  I would take a 4500 or 5000 Milli amp hour battery over a 4000 or lower battery every time.  It's tiring to see Apple behind in this area.   I agree with Georgebmac's comments about iOS and applications being so compelling to use iPhones, totally agree. 

    And I prefer a 6000 Milli to a 5000. What you need to understand is Apple develops it's own OS so it's far more efficient than Samsungs iPhoney.
    But it’s always about specs when talking about iPhone versus android,  remove other factors that may exist.  It’s always about hardware when android users speak.  So therefore,  a 6000 milli battery is better than a 5000 regardless.
    Androids have Garbage Collection frequency to worried about where the iPhone doesn't, nor 99.9% of the app ever utilize for scalability.  I've asked someone in Adobe yesterday and the only apps he know to do so are Photoshop for iPad & Photoshop Fix/Mix.

    In short, it won't make your iPhone any faster but definitely would drain more power.
    edited February 2020 watto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 20
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 1,278member
    M68000 said:
    esummers said:
    Specs in the "Processor" category are significantly different with Apple having a huge lead, but spec-to-spec comparisons are often misleading since they don't show the whole picture or are hard to quantify with a single number or spec.  There are legitimate reasons to choose Android, but technology-wise it is hard to compete with Apple's control of the whole stack.  For example iPhones are much more efficient with their RAM use due to no garbage collection overhead, more efficient resource utilization in background processes, and more efficient at offloading inactive memory to SSD.   You can basically double the iPhone RAM specs for the sake of comparison with Android.  Apple's processor is significantly more advanced than anything offered by Qualcomm putting it in a league of its own.   Apple's battery chemistry is very good, but there is no specification to show that.  Apple could easily match RAM or battery size specs, but it chooses not to because it doesn't matter.  Android generally gets earlier access to commodity tech like the latest cellular chips due to release cycle differences.  You are also comparing last years iPhone with this years Samsung phone.  I don't know enough to compare the large camera MP difference when not using binning (although Apple seems better in the typical case 12MP vs 10MP), but I assume that is due to the huge camera array on the Samsung.  I'm not sure if that tradeoff makes sense for an iPhone, but I'm sure it will attract someone to the S20 Ultra.
    "Apple could easily match RAM or battery size specs, but it chooses not to because it doesn't matter".   Well,  not sure I'm buying into that statement about batteries.  I would take a 4500 or 5000 Milli amp hour battery over a 4000 or lower battery every time.  It's tiring to see Apple behind in this area.   I agree with Georgebmac's comments about iOS and applications being so compelling to use iPhones, totally agree. 
    But they're also larger, having more pixels, bigger RAM and one extra lens.
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