Developer devises workaround to run ARM Windows on M1 Mac

AppleInsider

Using some custom patches to popular virtualization tool QEMU, a developer has managed to launch Windows for ARM processors on a M1 Mac with decent results.

Run ARM based Windows with QEMU

The ability to run Windows for ARM processors has been in question since Apple revealed its Macs running custom Apple Silicon. The closest to a confirmation so far had been Craig Federighi stating that is "a decision Microsoft has to make."

Users have been tinkering with custom software and emulation tools to try and get Windows to work, and one developer finally succeeded. The developer in question used QEMU and custom patches to get the OS running and claims it runs smoothly enough, and can even run some x86 apps.

Who said Windows wouldn't run well on #AppleSilicon? It's pretty snappy here . #QEMU patches for reference: https://t.co/qLQpZgBIqI pic.twitter.com/G1Usx4TcvL

-- Alexander Graf (@_AlexGraf)

November 26, 2020

The details of this workaround were covered by The 8-Bit, with the report stating the developer was able to run the preview version of ARM Windows by using the Hypervisor.framework. This framework lets users virtualize software without dealing with kernel extensions.

Graf claims to have achieved "near-native" performance though it is still early days. Other users trying to perform the same operation report slow startup times and lagging apps when operating normally. When QEMU is running ARM Windows, battery life is effectively cut in half.

Microsoft may release an official version of ARM Windows for consumers to purchase and run on M1 based Macs, but the timeline is unclear. Microsoft has not given any official statement regarding even working on such compatibility.

melgross

I figured there would be an article on this here after I posted about it in another thread. I may try this if my Macbook Pro ever gets here.

22july2013

Before Bootcamp existed, hackers got Windows working anyway. I see echos of that here, inferring that official support can't be too far away.

KTR

I think more of those macs will have to be on the market to make it worth while for MS to start development or at least make a alpha/beta.  for all we know, they probably started working on it.  

gmgravytrain

Would there be any benefits for Microsoft to have Windows running on M1 Macs?  It's not as though Apple's Mac market share percentage is very high.  Wouldn't Microsoft be undermining its own OEM partners if they did have an official build of Windows for Apple Silicon?

crowley

gmgravytrain said:

Would there be any benefits for Microsoft to have Windows running on M1 Macs?  It's not as though Apple's Mac market share percentage is very high.  Wouldn't Microsoft be undermining its own OEM partners if they did have an official build of Windows for Apple Silicon?

Well which is it? Either Apple market share isn’t high so no one will care much, or it’s high enough that Microsoft would get benefit from selling it.

mark fearing

I think MS would be interested in it. Basically they get their software running on really good, fast, future looking hardware. It will help them more than hurt them. Sooner or later the Intel line will have to change radically and a step towards ARM is very, very likely.

-M

GG1

This news is quite encouraging.

I have a friend that says the best hardware on which to run Windows is a Mac, due to quiet, power-efficient hardware and a robust power supply. (The biggest failure-prone item in off-the-shelf Wintel PCs is the power supply.)

DirkM

Doesn't really matter if Windows for ARM runs on an Apple Silicon Mac unless it can run x86 Windows software reasonable fast. Anybody who has tried to run x86 software on Windows for ARM will probably not try that again.

kimberly

DirkM said:

Doesn't really matter if Windows for ARM runs on an Apple Silicon Mac unless it can run x86 Windows software reasonable fast. Anybody who has tried to run x86 software on Windows for ARM will probably not try that again.

Very relevant point.

commentzilla

DirkM said:

Doesn't really matter if Windows for ARM runs on an Apple Silicon Mac unless it can run x86 Windows software reasonable fast. Anybody who has tried to run x86 software on Windows for ARM will probably not try that again.

Microsoft is probably looking very closely at what Apple has done with Rosetta 2. For me compatibility not speed is the most important, since I only really need Windows VMs to run Office and a few other common applications to mirror our worker's PC for tech support. I of course would love to have Microsoft go all out on ARM and I think that's a possibility now that their is actual PC hardware to run it on that has great power and battery life. I could easily see people buying Macs just to run Windows now that Apple's machines are very competitively priced against PCs.

commentzilla

melgross said:

I figured there would be an article on this here after I posted about it in another thread. I may try this if my Macbook Pro ever gets here.

The ship times are crazy. Mine is like a month. These new models are selling like hotcakes.

zeus423

gmgravytrain said:

Would there be any benefits for Microsoft to have Windows running on M1 Macs?  It's not as though Apple's Mac market share percentage is very high.  Wouldn't Microsoft be undermining its own OEM partners if they did have an official build of Windows for Apple Silicon?

Microsoft looks out for Microsoft. They're not worried about OEM partners or anyone else as long as they can make a buck.

sflocal

One reason why Microsoft didn’t put much effort into its WindowsARM because all the hardware out there for it was crap.  

Now, Apple is in the unique position of having ARM machines that are truly best-in-class.  This alone should be enough for Microsoft to consider putting more resources to polishing WindowsARM at least until there is an ARM SoC for everyone else.

I’m hopeful.  I have to use Windows, and Apple always made the best Windows machines imho.

rcfa

The real issue isn’t if M$ is going to port Windows10-ARM in some secret handshake deal with Apple, the key question is, will Apple publicly document their hardware well enough that anyone can port any OS to it.

Like running Linux, FreeBSD, bare metal virtualization software allowing near-instant switching between macOS and other operating systems, etc. etc.

Someone should have asked Craig Federighi THAT question...

Fidonet127

So much for Windows “never running on Macs.” Amazing work and how fast people are making it happen. 

melgross

gmgravytrain said:

Would there be any benefits for Microsoft to have Windows running on M1 Macs?  It's not as though Apple's Mac market share percentage is very high.  Wouldn't Microsoft be undermining its own OEM partners if they did have an official build of Windows for Apple Silicon?

Yes, there would. First, to show the many skeptics that with the right equipment, it can run well, something that isn’t happening now. Secondly, to get those chip companies and OEMs off their keesters and make better chips, or they’ll be losing out.

I don’t agree with those who say this would be batting against their OEMs. I’ve read a couple of articles that said that, and they’re wrong...completely. Microsoft mostly sells software and services. Nobody commented negatively about Microsoft on Macs. I believe that even their OEMs know that licensing software to anyone that fits the description is what Microsoft does. Therefor, Apple would just be another pc maker. After all, writing Windows for ARM itself is a departure from tradition. And it’s possible that Microsoft might not have to do too much. Besides, don’t forget that for these OEMs, Microsoft has already undermined them directly by making their own hardware lines. If that wasn’t a problem, then this certainly won’t be.

melgross

commentzilla said:

melgross said:

I figured there would be an article on this here after I posted about it in another thread. I may try this if my Macbook Pro ever gets here.

The ship times are crazy. Mine is like a month. These new models are selling like hotcakes.

What bugs me is that it’s sitting in “preparing order” for over a week now, even though the first day, it said that everything needed for my order was there. Supposedly the 3rd to the 10th. Well, it won’t be the third. I hope it will get here before the tenth.

melgross

sflocal said:

One reason why Microsoft didn’t put much effort into its WindowsARM because all the hardware out there for it was crap.  

Now, Apple is in the unique position of having ARM machines that are truly best-in-class.  This alone should be enough for Microsoft to consider putting more resources to polishing WindowsARM at least until there is an ARM SoC for everyone else.

I’m hopeful.  I have to use Windows, and Apple always made the best Windows machines imho.

There’s only one chip it runs on. A slightly modified chip from Qualcomm. Much slower than the M1, much slower than the A14, or the A13.

coolfactor

KTR said:

I think more of those macs will have to be on the market to make it worth while for MS to start development or at least make a alpha/beta.  for all we know, they probably started working on it.  

More of "those" Macs? You realize that the MacBook Air is the best-selling Mac on the market, and now every Air going forward is M-based, right?  Microsoft has learned (...the hard way with the Zune and Nokia phones...) that they can't "wait and see" when it comes to Apple.

sflocal

melgross said:

sflocal said:

One reason why Microsoft didn’t put much effort into its WindowsARM because all the hardware out there for it was crap.  

Now, Apple is in the unique position of having ARM machines that are truly best-in-class.  This alone should be enough for Microsoft to consider putting more resources to polishing WindowsARM at least until there is an ARM SoC for everyone else.

I’m hopeful.  I have to use Windows, and Apple always made the best Windows machines imho.

There’s only one chip it runs on. A slightly modified chip from Qualcomm. Much slower than the M1, much slower than the A14, or the A13.

Yes.  Now, Apple has serious desktop-class ARM chips coming out that outperform x86(64) systems.  Before the M1, Qualcomm's offerings was anemic at best, and the hardware running it was garbage.  

These new chips from Apple could usher in the next revolution in CPU performance.  It would hope ARM and Qualcomm see what's going on and go the same route that Apple has done - albeit not as elegant for sure.  Microsoft could blink and decide to give Windows10-ARM another go at it.