US Ambassador stokes fire
Here
In an interview today US Ambassador to Canada, Paul Celluci complains about Canada's lack of support for the Iraq war and its failure to discipline Liberals who criticize the U.S.
He also said that "Ottawa could do a better job" at controlling Liberals, like Natural Resources Minister Herb Dhaliwal
First off, if a Canadian minister has valid public backing it is his job to voice that opinion.
Second, what the hell is Celluci implying by saying that we should "discipline" the freedom to criticise something that we think is wrong!
Why does he complain NOW? We stood up and said No, AND gave our valid reasons back a longtime ago. He knew this.
What is disgraceful however is that he threatened that Canada will suffer an economic price....blackmail.
He also said that the US would:
But this is neither here nor there Mr.Celluci since it is not us that came to you with some half-ass aerial photography and scary fortune-telling, asking you to storm into a VERY volatile region!!
This is not an attack on the US, Bush or the war effort. This is a "wake up call" to Celluci who didn't quite GET why we weren't participating.
In an interview today US Ambassador to Canada, Paul Celluci complains about Canada's lack of support for the Iraq war and its failure to discipline Liberals who criticize the U.S.
He also said that "Ottawa could do a better job" at controlling Liberals, like Natural Resources Minister Herb Dhaliwal
First off, if a Canadian minister has valid public backing it is his job to voice that opinion.
Second, what the hell is Celluci implying by saying that we should "discipline" the freedom to criticise something that we think is wrong!
Why does he complain NOW? We stood up and said No, AND gave our valid reasons back a longtime ago. He knew this.
What is disgraceful however is that he threatened that Canada will suffer an economic price....blackmail.
He also said that the US would:
Quote:
come to Canada's aid if it were threatened,
come to Canada's aid if it were threatened,
But this is neither here nor there Mr.Celluci since it is not us that came to you with some half-ass aerial photography and scary fortune-telling, asking you to storm into a VERY volatile region!!
This is not an attack on the US, Bush or the war effort. This is a "wake up call" to Celluci who didn't quite GET why we weren't participating.
Comments
(which WAS ****ing disgraceful, BTW)
That's not really on topic... but then again, I live by a strict NO POLITICS policy. Can't comment other than to make a stupid joke. Sorry!
First off, if a Canadian minister has valid public backing it is his job to voice that opinion.
Second, what the hell is Celluci implying by saying that we should "discipline" the freedom to criticise something that we think is wrong!
So let me get this straight:
The Natural Resources Minister Dhaliwal comments on foreign policy and Bush by saying "'I think it's regrettable and unfortunate that (Bush) made this decision. People expect the president of a superpower to be a statesman. He's let down not only Americans, but the world by not being a statesman.'"
http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/03/19/dhaliwal030319
The Alberta Premier comments on foreign policy and Bush by writing a letter of support to Celluci and saying "'We recognize and appreciate the leadership role the U.S. has taken in the war on terrorism,'"
The deputy prime minister then says "'It's peculiar that a premier is pre-occupied with foreign affairs issues,'" he said during a CBC Television interview"
http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/03/22/klein_030322
The CBC then mentions that "The prime minister speaks for Canada, and the foreign minister speaks for the government on foreign policy issues, he said. " Then the CBC adds that the deputy prime minister said "'For a premier to get himself involved in this is surprising to say the least.'" And to conclude the CBC points out that "The Prime Minister's Office issued a tart statement that this wouldn't be the first time Klein's values didn't reflect the majority view of Canadian opinion."
So the Natural Resources minister is commenting on his opposition on foreign policy issues against the war. But the govt offers no public rebuke. Meanwhile, an Alberta premier gives his opinion as well and the Chretien govt gives a tart response pointing out that foreign affairs are not his policy domain.
And so then Celluci points out the contradictory position of the govt:
"When Mr. Klein issues strong support for the United States, the Canadian government comes down hard on him," Cellucci said.
"When Mr. Dhaliwal makes totally inappropriate remarks about the president of the United States, they totally ignore it."
Looks entirely reasonable to me. He's just pointing out the hypocrisy of the Chretien govt which has already sat passively on Dhaliwal and previously when they did not take the spokeswoman's resignation on the first go around. The Canadiens are the ones who have spouted off about Bush in a personal rather than policy manner twice.
This is not an attack on the US, Bush or the war effort. This is a "wake up call" to Celluci who didn't quite GET why we weren't participating.
Ugh, no. Celluci is not objecting to policy disagreements. He's objecting to personal statements about the US president and to a contradictory approach to different politicians stances on this issue. Neither of those politicians has responsibility for foreign affairs but only one was rebuked. Hypocrisy, they name is Canada.
What is disgraceful however is that he threatened that Canada will suffer an economic price....blackmail.
Where is blackmail to be found in the article that you linked?
"a lot of people in Washington are upset"
"could do a better job"
"has not been positive."
"When Mr. Klein issues strong support for the United States, the Canadian government comes down hard on him," Cellucci said.
"When Mr. Dhaliwal makes totally inappropriate remarks about the president of the United States, they totally ignore it."
"We can disagree and remain friends,"
Now he may well have said all the things CBC says he said but with so few quotes and way too much paraphrasing I can't tell.
Paul Celluci complains about Canada's lack of support for the Iraq war
I can't say it any other way Collander, theres just no reason to stoke the fire when the war is alrady under way. He is implying that we should be involved and shaming us for not being invovled because "US would back you up".
Klein doesn't represent popular opinion. Tada.
I didn't say anything about Ottawa's reaction to any quote.
The blackmail I am talking about must have been mentioned in the televised verison which is available on the site.
Celluci is not objecting to policy disagreements.
Read it again. He is shaming us for not being involved! I won't say it again!
It was clear that he was shaming Canada when this is not the time for it, and since we opted out on grounds that we were a
1. Sovereign Nation
2. Not convinced of Iraq's WOMD threat
it never was.
We needn't have Celluci coming in and tell us off about it. Its not appropriate or productive. The Canadian stance he should damn well know is of peace and being with the UN.
Maybe he forgot its the US who are going on without UN support. We have proper justification and again, we don't need to here it from him at any time about the topic. He knows whats up and he seems blind to the reasons why we're not involved because he held the meeting in the first place.
He could very well complain about Dhaliwal alone but not our involvement, its really none of anyone's busienss as long as UN has not sanciotned.
Canada has always gone with UN sanctioned actions and certainly joined the US on every appropriate ocassion......for the last time, he had no right to try and shame Canada for not being involved in an unsanctioned, and what we feel is an unjust war!!!!!
Last of all, he didn't seem to realise that we are thoroughly committed to helping our neighbour fight terrorism....we have a relatively large worldwide presence WITH the US on this and the largest collection of any "willing" country in the Persian Gulf to support the "war on terrorism" that actually spills over on tot he Iraq war since we are protecting convoys and forces from terrorist attack!
David Ingram received notification that his winning bid of $24.50 had been canceled, along with this message: "At the present time, we do not ship to, or accept bids from, Canada, Mexico, France, Germany or any other country that does not support the United States in our efforts to rid the world of Saddam Hussein. If you are not with us, you are against us."
Ingram's .ca address sparked the notice from CompAtlanta, based in Lawrenceville, Georgia. Canada is one of a number of countries that said it would not support an American invasion of Iraq without United Nations' approval.
"I've made a winning bid,'' Ingram said. "To discriminate against me because I'm a Canadian is ridiculous."
All I can say is that I'm going to do my piece for international cooperation by de-selecting Bush in 2004.
Who is this Chretein guy? Is he related to Chiraq?
No relation to Chirac...
Canada is the northern most country of North America. It was confederated on July 1, 1867.
Canada is good buds with their next door neighbour America. They get along great unless Canada wants to stick with UN sanctioning for war and US wants Canada to go to war without the UN approval even though Canada has never mobilised offensive armed forces without UN sanctioning.
Originally posted by groverat
What's a Canada?
Who is this Chretein guy? Is he related to Chiraq?
In french Chretien means Christian, so he must be related to Fship (J/K Fship)
Dudley Do-Right was a kick-ass cartoon.
I love Canada!
Originally posted by DigitalMonkeyBoy
But this is neither here nor there Mr.Celluci since it is not us that came to you with some half-ass aerial photography and scary fortune-telling, asking you to storm into a VERY volatile region!!
. . . interesting way of putting that . .
The United States government acted hypocritically.
Difference:
The United States is important. Canada is not.
Thanks for playing along. Drive home safely.
Originally posted by groverat
The United States is important. Canada is not.
PCs are important, macs are not.
The Canadian government acted hypocritically.
Explain.
Canadian government repersents Canadian public opinion.
Canada likes peace.
Canada goes to war only on UN sanctioning.
The United States government acted hypocritically.
US was planning on going to war...
Both governments said one thing and did that thing.
No hypocrisy here man... I am afriad thats call for a stamp of invalidation on your response.
The United States is important. Canada is not.
Wrong again. Canada is a leading nation in the sense of economic power, societal progression progression of human rights and governmental structure as well as a very long list of other very important things.
We, just as many leading nations do, give billions of dollars of aid away each year to developing nations.
We developed the CanadARM.
We were the first North American nation to promote freedom of blacks.
We gave birth to the funniest actors, next to you of course.
We have a more pro-active stance on environmental protection (which equals better living for the world)
We are more diverse. We promote multi-culturalism which equals more cooperation between races.
Canada is very impotant Groverat, sorry about the confusion. Hopefully you'll win next time. Drive safely, whoops don't forget your seatbelt. Rememeber to say hi to Cletus and Huckleberry for me.
Heck, the Americans now want our support when their president didn't even acknowledge or thank Canada for their help and support during 911?
I suspect it's more to do with getting public support than any sort of military assistance. We simply do not have the resources to really make an impact.
Wrong again. Canada is a leading nation in the sense of economic power, societal progression progression of human rights and governmental structure as well as a very long list of other very important things.
Canada is the leading benefactor of America's power and prowess. That's it. You guys are the best at being just north of us.
I don't intend to bash Canada, I'm quite fond of the foliage and the friendly citizens. But this ridiculous idea that Canada is virtuous while the greedy and evil United States runs rampant is mindless.
Of course Canada only goes to war with UN sanction, Canada wouldn't EVER need to do ANYTHING even to protect itself!
If you feel bad that you live in a nation whose government constantly struggles to get out from under the shadow then move, because that's where Canada is and that's where Canada belongs. Canada will never have a stronger and more important ally than the United States. You are allowed to promote such an open-bordered and progressive society because your entire modern existence has been under our military and economic umbrella. Our friendly terrorist-conduit to the north.
So pardon me when I scoff at Canadian moral posturing. When your MPs say "I hate those bastards" about our citizens and call our president an "idiot" (or was it "moron")?
Be against the war, that's fine, just have your leaders shut their insignificant talk-holes if they can't think of anything better to spew than insults about our leaders. Leave us alone and we'll leave you alone. Believe me, you're easy to forget.
Canada proposes Iraqi peace plan, world pats Canada on head and says 'good job!'
<ali g>
Big ups to my Canadian bruvas and sistuhs
</ali g>
satchmo:
I suspect it's more to do with getting public support than any sort of military assistance. We simply do not have the resources to really make an impact.
We like to involve you guys because you are our friends. But if you want to spit on us then fine, we will do quite nicely without you. It's really that simple.
This "fire stoking" is amazingly tame compared to the filth coming out of Canadian government directed at the US government.
Canada is the leading benefactor of America's power and prowess.
True but thats not all. For a limited time only we put up with the sickening oppression of your impoverished citizens. Socioeconomic disparity between the races? You betcha!
We help to balance the table charlie, and you can send your thanks in the mail.
Canada is virtuous while the greedy and evil United States runs rampant is mindless.
Watch the assumtpions. There is not such dichotomy put forth by any Canadian here.
Canada wouldn't EVER need to do ANYTHING even to protect itself!
That doesn't follow. You are thinking that since the US super-power is next door that is the reason no one hates Canada. The real reason is we don't promote regime change all across the friggin world and deny human rights offenses during "forgotten" wars and installation of dictators...
We to to war under UN sanction because it means theres something to go to war for.
We also promote multi-culturalism which is a far cry from your giant melting pot with a Christian-or-bust placard sticking out of it.
that's where Canada is and that's where Canada belongs.
You may not say that. You are not an authority onm what people think across the world. People who look to Canada to accept them, bar no creed, faith or colour.
The immigrants here whom I know are very happy to be in Canada, saying that they are free to practice the ritual of life as they see fit and not have to convert to ideals before they will be accepted in society.
your entire modern existence has been under our military and economic umbrella.
Thats debateable. You nor I know where a Canada would be OR a US would be without either of us.
Screw your umbrella, we don't need one because of reasons stated above. Don't shove your gifts this way all the while saying "stay shutup".
Our friendly terrorist-conduit to the north.
Back-up the trolly. YOU dare call is a terrorist conduit? Suck a lemon. There's no call for that accusation, its entirely baseless.
Canadian moral posturing.
Ethics not moral. Someone has to posture. You sure as hell aren't.
Before presidency Bush knew nothing about the world. He was asked whether or not he would support our prime minister "John Poutine".....
He was pro-gun, pro-industry and appears to still be that way. I don't like em. He's about big business.
have your leaders shut their insignificant talk-holes if they can't think of anything better to spew than insults about our leaders
Nah. There was one or two that stepped out of line, the rest presented their cases and debated in a civil mannor.
you're easy to forget.
Not really. We represent $1.9 billion PER DAY in trade with your country. We're ever-present.
spit on us then fine
Dude, the crap that comes out of American politicians is SICK. You're blind and completely unacknowledging of the things that have happened.
Columnists saying things like "It must be so hard living next to such a great country when there's nothing that great about your own."
Thats the ARROGANCE that Canada has been listening to for YEARS all because you think you're so damn perfect. America the friggin brave. You [groverat] have one bloody nerve coming on here and getting angry about Canada not ebing able to put up with this suicide mission that I will remind you the WORLD OPPOSED as well as BUSH!
Don't even try to come back to this. Don't even because I've heard it all my life, the elephant next door rolls over and we've had too SUCK IT.. WELL NOT THIS TIME!
Canada's opinion IS VALID and we will write and write and march until the part of the US that represents YOU groverat gets the picture!
There is more to THIS WORLD THAN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!