Where is the 970 evidence?
How/why is everyone so sure that Apple is going to change processors? 
I mean COME ON! Many of the people on the board keep making comments like "wow I really want a new mac, but I just can't with the 970 on the horizon."
My question is: How are you all so sure Apple is even going to change processors? Just because people are making newer, faster PPC processors doesn't mean Apple will change. As far as I know, Apple has made no move to show that they are definitely changing processors.
Don't get me wrong, I want the 970 too. I just won't base my next purchase timing on RUMORS...
So... where is the *SOLID* evidence?
[edit]wrong smilies...
I mean COME ON! Many of the people on the board keep making comments like "wow I really want a new mac, but I just can't with the 970 on the horizon."
My question is: How are you all so sure Apple is even going to change processors? Just because people are making newer, faster PPC processors doesn't mean Apple will change. As far as I know, Apple has made no move to show that they are definitely changing processors.
Don't get me wrong, I want the 970 too. I just won't base my next purchase timing on RUMORS...
So... where is the *SOLID* evidence?
[edit]wrong smilies...
Comments
Originally posted by drumbug1
How/why is everyone so sure that Apple is going to change processors?
I mean COME ON! Many of the people on the board keep making comments like "wow I really want a new mac, but I just can't with the 970 on the horizon."
My question is: How are you all so sure Apple is even going to change processors? Just because people are making newer, faster PPC processors doesn't mean Apple will change. As far as I know, Apple has made no move to show that they are definitely changing processors.
Don't get me wrong, I want the 970 too. I just won't base my next purchase timing on RUMORS...
So... where is the *SOLID* evidence?
If you want *SOLID* evidence you're just going to have to wait for Apple to put it on their web site's front page and take out ads in your local paper. Apple is notorious for not publishing roadmaps and introducing products "by surprise". That's why sites like this exist, so that we can look at the available evidence and make reasonable guesses as to what is coming.
The closest evidence I can offer is that the IBM 970 does exist, its the only new PowerPC in years, it is 64-bit, and there is an Apple TechNote describing how to write PowerPC assembly code so that it can run on a processor with larger cache lines.
So there is no need for Apple to make a monumental shift from one architecture to another on the end-user's side (pre-existing apps, drivers).
Developers will not be completely affected by a change to a 64 bit processor, they will need to know what exactly is changed/works differently and will need new 64 bit. compilers.
Helloooo WWDC moved back with a big Panther preview???
The 970 is definately coming, IBM has announced *products* that will use it. That is a given.
The 970 has a vector unit that by all accounts is AltiVec compatible. A given more or less.
The CPU is compatible with 32 bit PowerPC code. That is a given.
Apple has a serious performance issue in regards to MHz and the ability to fully utilize DDR RAM and faster MoBo speeds with the G4.
Ergo Apple would be incredibly FOOLISH to ignore the 970 as much as it would have been foolish to ignore the G4 w/AltiVec.
The fact is that it takes a PeeCee TWICE as fast to get 10-40% more performance than the top G4/DP. That is still too large of a margin for anyone trying to sell expensive "workstations" to video/3D/audio pros as well as heavy server iron (Xserve is not a product, it's a product category).
As a stockholder in Apple Computer, Inc. I DEMAND Apple adopt the 970 or kiss lots and lots of Mac users (read: Money) goodbye as they migrate to Linux/Windoze on Athlons and such.
End of confusion!
Originally posted by drumbug1
How/why is everyone so sure that Apple is going to change processors?
...
So... where is the *SOLID* evidence?
[edit]wrong smilies...
Some of us do have solid evidence to that effect.
Whether or not you trust us, is, of course, up to you.
Whether or not you trust us, is, of course, up to you."
Well let's see, what's more likely?
a) A number of bigshot industry insiders hang around on these pages. They have signed important NDA agreements that mean they will lose their job if they tell us anything substantial, however they feel such an obligation to us all that they are willing to drop huge hints (albe it without any actual content) about upcoming hardware.
or...
b) A few friendless nerds think they can get some attention by pretending to have inside information. It's easier than walking around in parks in a dirty mac, and less likely to get them arrested.
Seriously guys, I believe in the PPC 970, and I believe that Apple probably will use it. I also believe that we'll know this for sure the day that Steve Jobs gets up and says so on a stage somewhere. Not before.
I don't think that will happen any time in the next six months in any case.
Socrates
a) A number of bigshot industry insiders hang around on these pages. They have signed important NDA agreements that mean they will lose their job if they tell us anything substantial, however they feel such an obligation to us all that they are willing to drop huge hints (albe it without any actual content) about upcoming hardware.
or...
b) A few friendless nerds think they can get some attention by pretending to have inside information. It's easier than walking around in parks in a dirty mac, and less likely to get them arrested.
Or maybe some people who post here live in towns where IBM is fabbing the 970 or have friends who work in the labs where IBM is fabbing the 970. Its not that big a secret.
Believe me, if I had signed any NDAs about the info I have given, I would have never done so.
The info that I (or a friend) have signed an NDA for, I haven't shared. (well, other than the vauge hints, as you say
Doesn't make me an industry big shot; just in the right place(s) at the right time(s).
But you are right. We won't know for sure until Stevo lets us get our grubby little mits on it.
Originally posted by Socrates
a) A number of bigshot industry insiders hang around on these pages. They have signed important NDA agreements that mean they will lose their job if they tell us anything substantial, however they feel such an obligation to us all that they are willing to drop huge hints (albe it without any actual content) about upcoming hardware.
Leaks almost never come from the top. Instead the people who actually build these things, and there are many many involved, go home and talk about work here and there with family and friends. Steve Jobs might be able to get the leaks coming from Apple down to a minimum but he can't ensure that his suppliers will be completely air-tight.
Ergo Apple would be incredibly FOOLISH to ignore the 970 as much as it would have been foolish to ignore the G4 w/AltiVec.
On this point, I have a different opinion. During the MIA split, Moto whispered to Apple 'AltiVec, AltiVec' while IBM proposed 'Faster, Faster'.
If Apple had chosen IBM's offer over Moto's, I believe both Apple's MHz rating and market-share would be substantially higher!
Originally posted by Locomotive
Per Nitride...
On this point, I have a different opinion. During the MIA split, Moto whispered to Apple 'AltiVec, AltiVec' while IBM proposed 'Faster, Faster'.
If Apple had chosen IBM's offer over Moto's, I believe both Apple's MHz rating and market-share would be substantially higher!
Except that IBM never delivered anything faster. It wasn't just Moto pushing AltiVec, either, as Apple contributed significantly to the design of the VMX instruction set. I think SIMD has been proven to be a good investment for modern processors.
Originally posted by Transcendental Octothorpe
Believe me, if I had signed any NDAs about the info I have given, I would have never done so.
And the info you have given is what?
Originally posted by Clive
And the info you have given is what?
Uh,
things I've learned that I can legally disclose?
See, as long as I haven't signed an NDA regarding such information, I can do as I please. Am I unclear?
Hmm, probably should have just let this thread die. Lord knows we have enough 970 threads these days as it is.
Originally posted by drumbug1
How/why is everyone so sure that Apple is going to change processors?
I mean COME ON! Many of the people on the board keep making comments like "wow I really want a new mac, but I just can't with the 970 on the horizon."
My question is: How are you all so sure Apple is even going to change processors? Just because people are making newer, faster PPC processors doesn't mean Apple will change. As far as I know, Apple has made no move to show that they are definitely changing processors.
Don't get me wrong, I want the 970 too. I just won't base my next purchase timing on RUMORS...
So... where is the *SOLID* evidence?
[edit]wrong smilies...
Where . . . on my HDD
Originally posted by Transcendental Octothorpe
Some of us do have solid evidence to that effect.
Whether or not you trust us, is, of course, up to you.
Much thanks T.O.!
Originally posted by drumbug1
My question is: How are you all so sure Apple is even going to change processors? Just because people are making newer, faster PPC processors doesn't mean Apple will change. As far as I know, Apple has made no move to show that they are definitely changing processors.
So... where is the *SOLID* evidence?
Seriously, if you're not willing to entertain rumours, what are you doing on FH anyway? This isn't a flame .... If you don't believe in astrology, you probably wouldn't hang around astrology forums, right?
If you are willing to entertain Mac hardware rumours, then it's hard to see what rumours you would take seriously in this regard if you're doubtful about a 970-based Mac. The processor has all the hallmarks of fulfilling an Apple wishlist: it's targeted at desktops, yet has modest power requirements; it's a PPC; it has Altivec; it's SMP-friendly; and so on.
Given that we won't get any advance announcements from Apple until they're good and ready, what kind of evidence would you need to believe that the 970 is in Apple's future?
Originally posted by Programmer
Except that IBM never delivered anything faster.
Maybe because Apple didnt put money into IBM's chip development (A lot that is..), and favored Moto?
Originally posted by MacJedai
Where . . . on my HDD
*Hack* *Hack* *Hack*
Except that IBM never delivered anything faster. It wasn't just Moto pushing AltiVec, either, as Apple contributed significantly to the design of the VMX instruction set. I think SIMD has been proven to be a good investment for modern processors.
Choosing AltiVec over IBM has (I believe) proven to be a business disaster for Apple. Sure a small minority of personal computer users benefit -- the ones Apple has to target.
As Thain suggested above, IBM lost interest in PPC processors when Apple killed the clones and said it wouldn't buy new IBM processors w/o AltiVec. Now with Apple's encouragement ($) and with hopes for Linux boxes, IBM has renewed interest.
A case in point is the IBM G3 processor which seems forever stuck behind the slow moving G4 in terms of clock speed. iBook @ 1 GHz anyone?
Anyone with "true-facts" please jump in.
Originally posted by Locomotive
From Programmer:
Anyone with "true-facts" please jump in.
At least this IBM PowerPC Quick Reference Guide lists, and I quote,"Products from 600MHz to 1 GHz for computing, networking, storage, imaging, and consumer systems."
This brocgure was revised 7/11/02, so Apple has had 1GHz G3's available from IBM since @ least July of last year and most probably longer.
edit: forgot to add that the bus interface for the 750FX listed on the brochure is 200MHz.