real estate woes
my wife and i just had one of those house buying experiences that just make you sick. let me begin by saying that this will be our first time buying a house. after looking for some time, we found a wonderfull property here in dallas that we both instantly fell in love with. we decided to make an offer on it because we knew that even though it had only been on the market for a few days, it would be gone quickly due to it's great location and charm. the owner was asking 164,000, so we tendered a bid of 160. the owner remained firm on 164. after talking with our agent we knew the owner wasn't going to come down from his asking price, so we agreed to pay 164. in the course of faxing back in forth terms of the contract, our agent noticed that the owner or more specificaly, his agent, had neglected to put any kind of due date on the contract for us to repond back to them. this, im told, is very unusual, as we had done so on all of of submitals. they also failed to include some other paperwork to us, requiring some extra work on our part that would have to be approved once again by the seller. alarm bells are begining to go off in all of our collective heads. what this essentially did was to allow the seller to be in negotiations with us, while taking other bids on the side, waiting for someone to go beyond his asking price. this, to my understanding of contract law would be illeagal, not mention unethical in most other cases. however, in real estate, it's leagal, if somewhat shady. needles to say, he pulled out of our negotiations just before we were able to get all the paper work back in their court. that to me, is some real shity pool and left a bad taste in my mouth. any who, just wonder if any of you have had similar experience and what you think.
here are some pics my wife took of the place that might have been. Image Link
here are some pics my wife took of the place that might have been. Image Link
Comments
Originally posted by running with scissors
my wife and i just had one of those house buying experiences that just make you sick. let me begin by saying that this will be our first time buying a house. after looking for some time, we found a wonderfull property here in dallas that we both instantly fell in love with. we decided to make an offer on it because we knew that even though it had only been on the market for a few days, it would be gone quickly due to it's great location and charm. the owner was asking 164,000, so we tendered a bid of 160. the owner remained firm on 164. after talking with our agent we knew the owner wasn't going to come down from his asking price, so we agreed to pay 164. in the course of faxing back in forth terms of the contract, our agent noticed that the owner or more specificaly, his agent, had neglected to put any kind of due date on the contract for us to repond back to them. this, im told, is very unusual, as we had done so on all of of submitals. they also failed to include some other paperwork to us, requiring some extra work on our part that would have to be approved once again by the seller. alarm bells are begining to go off in all of our collective heads. what this essentially did was to allow the seller to be in negotiations with us, while taking other bids on the side, waiting for someone to go beyond his asking price. this, to my understanding of contract law would be illeagal, not mention unethical in most other cases. however, in real estate, it's leagal, if somewhat shady. needles to say, he pulled out of our negotiations just before we were able to get all the paper work back in their court. that to me, is some real shity pool and left a bad taste in my mouth. any who, just wonder if any of you have had similar experience and what you think.
here are some pics my wife took of the place that might have been. Image Link
I can tell you that having bought several properties this isn't at all unusual. Most contracts have a predetermined set date (usually 3 days) and then have a space to write in if it is something different. It sounds like your agent is just passing some buck(onto their agent). I wouldn't be mad at him though because he likely wouldn't be doing business with you for long if he made you feel like an a$$ for not putting in a full price offer and losing the house.
If you have a signed by him and you offer/counter-offer. Then it is a valid sale that you could sue to enforce. Often though it isn't worth the time to try to enforce.
Sellers are always allowed to consider multiple bids at the same time. They are even allowed to use one bid to force the hand on another bid. You might want to keep your offer in there as a back-up offer. The market is quite hot right now and most people are buying right at the top of their affordability. The last two properties I bought had fallen out of escrow and I was able to get a deal because they now wanted someone who could easily buy the place and let them get on with their lives.
Also I must really recommend that you read a book or two on buying a home (don't just listen to agents). It is $30 or so spent on info that could save you thousands. Likewise register with Ziprealty.com or go to Realtor.com to look at houses. Most of these sites have full MLS listing now and could save you some time and money.
Lastly, save yourself some money and try NEVER to fall in love with a house. Especially don't pay extra for small things like paint, carpet, appliances, or greenery. These things are cheap to fix and can change the asking price of a house by 20-30k. Drywall is chalk and paper. Get some perspective and don't overpay for a house.
Pay for the things you can't easily change. The size of the house/lot and location.
If it would make you feel any better, I could comment on some negative aspects of the house so you don't love it so much anymore.
Nick
Originally posted by running with scissors
we've done a bit of reading on it but it never fully prepares you for the emotional side of the process. i truley feel drained. but i'll get over it. infact, we're going to look at another couple house over lunch. i spoke to my cousin's wife, who happens to work for the same realator as the sellers. she didn't know the agent, but did comment that what they did was kind of on the shady side of things. i may not have discribed it as well as i could have. either way, it's still a hard pill to swallow being my first time and all.
You'll recover. How many houses have you looked at already that you fell so in love with this one? From the pictures I didn't see anything particularly special about it. The kitchen seemed especially small and cheaply remodeled and as a result I was surprised your wife liked it. Likewise the detached a garage is a definate minus in my book.
Agents talk to agents, they can know, with a little talking, the true status and intent of the seller. They can know if the seller has poured his/her heart into a property and won't settle for a dollar less, or if they have a house going into foreclosure due to an unamicable divorce and if they will accept less. This is what a good agent does and what your agent should have done for you. Also counter-offers can be negotiated on the phone, agreed to and signed later.
Our first house was quite a looker. Nevermind that the "new" carpet was very cheap and would show lots of wear in less than two years. It was put on the market at the start of this very hot market. (Although in California the market is always pretty good) The house was a repo because the prior owner had taken a second mortgage out to add all sorts of cool things to the house and then had lost the house.
It has (still has them, it is a rental now) carpet, wood and tile flooring, plantation shutters through-out the entire house, a pool and jacuzzi and it has the largest lot for 4 blocks. Tile countertops instead of formica, stained cabinets instead of painted. It is very nice.
It also had three offers go in on it the first day it hit the market. I had put in an offer but told my agent she could verbally agree to terms about $3000 more than we were offering if it would get us the house. As it turned out she only needed $500 for us to get the house.
Agents (good ones) can also communicate things about the state of their buyers. For example if you have a prequal letter for say $200,000 and are buying this house, they know you are a serious buyer and won't have escrow troubles. They can't force you to overpay for the house because it has to appraise for the value of the loan.
As I mentioned you can leave your offer there as a backup offer.
Some of the things I see in your dream house make me wonder about how you are swayed by emotions and seeing these houses.
For example did you notice how the kitchen has white cabinets when there is stained wood throughout the rest of the house (even the cabinets in the garage are stained)? Seems like a cheap way of remodeling the (very small) kitchen. The floor looks like vinyl squares which is also a cheap way to upgrade the kitchen. It also has NO counter space. (look at those photos again)
Again the detached garage, why? It dates the house (I would guess built in the late 50's, maybe early 60's) and it cannot be easily fixed. Deciding you don't like walking through the rain/snow to get to you car AFTER you have bought the house is a bit late right?
Speaking of dating houses, have you asked if the plumbing was updated? If it is of that vintage I doubt it is brass and that means trouble. Likewise while the paint might be very new what year were the furnace and air conditioner installed or updated? What size is the water heater?
What you should do is have a friend who is a contracter (or at least very handy) go look at houses with you. Then when you find a few that have the proper foundation, have your wife come along so the two of you can "fall in love" with a proper house.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
Especially don't pay extra for small things like paint, carpet, appliances, or greenery. These things are cheap to fix and can change the asking price of a house by 20-30k. Drywall is chalk and paper. Get some perspective and don't overpay for a house.
Pay for the things you can't easily change. The size of the house/lot and location.
This is probably the best advice you could give/take. Dry wall is cheap in more ways than one.
Any place within communting distance of Seattle was as bad, with a minimal tradeoff to offset the time in traffic. If you actually work in Dallas, then I would assume you are facing the same tradeoff. (I grew up in Texas and lived in Arlington for several years; graduated from UTA.) If you don't actually work in Dallas, I would look further afield. For a while there, houses in Fort Worth were a steal, but that may have changed.
I digress.
The best advice we got when were looking was "talk to the neighbors." That's how we found out that one river front lot were seriously considering flooded every year. And how we found out why our current lot has next to no trees when all of the other houses in the neighborhood have tons (a misguided attempt at landscaping by a previous owner's boyfriend).
Originally posted by trumptman
You'll recover. How many houses have you looked at already that you fell so in love with this one? From the pictures I didn't see anything particularly special about it. The kitchen seemed especially small and cheaply remodeled and as a result I was surprised your wife liked it. Likewise the detached a garage is a definate minus in my book.
Agents talk to agents, they can know, with a little talking, the true status and intent of the seller. They can know if the seller has poured his/her heart into a property and won't settle for a dollar less, or if they have a house going into foreclosure due to an unamicable divorce and if they will accept less. This is what a good agent does and what your agent should have done for you. Also counter-offers can be negotiated on the phone, agreed to and signed later.
Our first house was quite a looker. Nevermind that the "new" carpet was very cheap and would show lots of wear in less than two years. It was put on the market at the start of this very hot market. (Although in California the market is always pretty good) The house was a repo because the prior owner had taken a second mortgage out to add all sorts of cool things to the house and then had lost the house.
It has (still has them, it is a rental now) carpet, wood and tile flooring, plantation shutters through-out the entire house, a pool and jacuzzi and it has the largest lot for 4 blocks. Tile countertops instead of formica, stained cabinets instead of painted. It is very nice.
It also had three offers go in on it the first day it hit the market. I had put in an offer but told my agent she could verbally agree to terms about $3000 more than we were offering if it would get us the house. As it turned out she only needed $500 for us to get the house.
Agents (good ones) can also communicate things about the state of their buyers. For example if you have a prequal letter for say $200,000 and are buying this house, they know you are a serious buyer and won't have escrow troubles. They can't force you to overpay for the house because it has to appraise for the value of the loan.
As I mentioned you can leave your offer there as a backup offer.
Some of the things I see in your dream house make me wonder about how you are swayed by emotions and seeing these houses.
For example did you notice how the kitchen has white cabinets when there is stained wood throughout the rest of the house (even the cabinets in the garage are stained)? Seems like a cheap way of remodeling the (very small) kitchen. The floor looks like vinyl squares which is also a cheap way to upgrade the kitchen. It also has NO counter space. (look at those photos again)
Again the detached garage, why? It dates the house (I would guess built in the late 50's, maybe early 60's) and it cannot be easily fixed. Deciding you don't like walking through the rain/snow to get to you car AFTER you have bought the house is a bit late right?
Speaking of dating houses, have you asked if the plumbing was updated? If it is of that vintage I doubt it is brass and that means trouble. Likewise while the paint might be very new what year were the furnace and air conditioner installed or updated? What size is the water heater?
What you should do is have a friend who is a contracter (or at least very handy) go look at houses with you. Then when you find a few that have the proper foundation, have your wife come along so the two of you can "fall in love" with a proper house.
Nick
good points all, but much of what you say come down to taste. also, i never said the place was perfect, just that it was charming. we fell in love with the possibilities that were present. the up side was that there was nothing that was in need of immediate attention. the house was built in 51 and all the heating, air and roof have been replaced in the last few years. solid foundation, great neighborhood, good school distirct, relatively close to downtown. it's an area that is quickly becoming a hot commodity. to give you an idea, the guy bought the house 3 years ago for 117. the slate patio was the only thing major that was done since. not to bad. if it follows the trend of other similar areas such as lower greenvile where price for a 1200 square foot house can go as high as 250, then it would have been a great investment indeed. new tile, counter tops cabnetry, are things that would have been added in time. much of which i can do myself or with help from my pops. i'm not sure your comment regarding the garage is even relevent in this area. many would say that it is part of the charm of an older house. the last thing i want to do is try to make it look new. besides, this is dallas, not boston. it doesn't get that cold. but that's neither here nor there, since we will not be getting that particular house anyways. we found another one on the same street, that is much better house, if only lacking some of the exterior charm. but as you said, that can be addressed in time. i think you would like this one more because it is much more polished than the other and has about 300sq feet more of living space. if all goes well, and it's begining to look like it is, i'll post some shots of it when i can, to get your opinions.
Originally posted by running with scissors
good points all, but much of what you say come down to taste. also, i never said the place was perfect, just that it was charming. we fell in love with the possibilities that were present. the up side was that there was nothing that was in need of immediate attention. the house was built in 51 and all the heating, air and roof have been replaced in the last few years. solid foundation, great neighborhood, good school distirct, relatively close to downtown. it's an area that is quickly becoming a hot commodity. to give you an idea, the guy bought the house 3 years ago for 117. the slate patio was the only thing major that was done since. not to bad. if it follows the trend of other similar areas such as lower greenvile where price for a 1200 square foot house can go as high as 250, then it would have been a great investment indeed. new tile, counter tops cabnetry, are things that would have been added in time. much of which i can do myself or with help from my pops. i'm not sure your comment regarding the garage is even relevent in this area. many would say that it is part of the charm of an older house. the last thing i want to do is try to make it look new. besides, this is dallas, not boston. it doesn't get that cold. but that's neither here nor there, since we will not be getting that particular house anyways. we found another one on the same street, that is much better house, if only lacking some of the exterior charm. but as you said, that can be addressed in time. i think you would like this one more because it is much more polished than the other and has about 300sq feet more of living space. if all goes well, and it's begining to look like it is, i'll post some shots of it when i can, to get your opinions.
Running,
I am so glad to hear of your new find! It doesn't really matter if I liked it. I was just pointing out some flaws to make you realize that in the end they are all chalk, wood and some paint.
Congrats on finding the house up the street. 300 sq feet is pretty substancial so that is a fantastic find if it is the same price. (relatively) I hope it has a good size lot for you as well. Good luck on your wheeling and dealing and just remember everything is negotiable with real estate.
You literally can add anything to the terms of the deal. Some people are really hung up about getting a certain price for their house and if that is the case you can give it to them but get back a lot in various "allowances", work to be done and of course costs paid by seller.
For example you might do the tile work but tell the seller to give you a tile allowance or a remodeling allowance. A few $400-500 allowances can really add up and you end up gettin the house for less even though he gets his "price."
The house I am currently living in the seller and I got hung up on $1350 dollars difference in price. It had fallen out of escrow and he had already pretty much moved out. I told him I would give him the $1350 in the offer but he had to give me an interim occupancy agreement for the 45 days or so it would take to get through escrow. He agreed as long as I agreed to release the initial deposit after I took possession of the house.
I was moved in less than a week later. I took the rest of that week to prep my old house for rental and to advertise/find a renter for it. My old house rented for $1350 a month which means I made almost $1500 by giving him his $1350. (My house was now rented for the 45 days of escrow)
Good luck,
Nick
I am sorry to hear of the emotional drain you have expierenced with your venture to purchase your first home. I want to extend to you the offer to meet with you if you wish and if I can be of any help I would be more than happy to meet with you and your wife. I viewed the home as a very charming home from the pictures. Dallas has some very beautiful established neighborhoods with wonderful landscaping and charm. The best thing to do is to know your budget, location and sq. footage requirements. Let your broker know what you must have in the deal. Don't give any impression that you are head over heals about any particular property. I deal with brokers all the time and I hate to say but they play people all the time. I know not all do but sad to say many do none the less.
If you would like to talk sometime or meet let me know and it is no sweat off my back. I would love to be of any help if I can.
Best of luck!
Fellowship
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
running with scissors
I am sorry to hear of the emotional drain you have expierenced with your venture to purchase your first home. I want to extend to you the offer to meet with you if you wish and if I can be of any help I would be more than happy to meet with you and your wife. I viewed the home as a very charming home from the pictures. Dallas has some very beautiful established neighborhoods with wonderful landscaping and charm. The best thing to do is to know your budget, location and sq. footage requirements. Let your broker know what you must have in the deal. Don't give any impression that you are head over heals about any particular property. I deal with brokers all the time and I hate to say but they play people all the time. I know not all do but sad to say many do none the less.
If you would like to talk sometime or meet let me know and it is no sweat off my back. I would love to be of any help if I can.
Best of luck!
Fellowship
So Fellowship what are the good/bad areas of Dallas/Fort Worth? I mean it would be like telling someone you live in L.A. I suppose with regard to size. What determines what is a good/bad home in the area?
I was checking out the prices through Realtor.com and I am telling you we would kill for some of those prices in California. :-)
Nick
Originally posted by running with scissors
...we found another one on the same street, that is much better house, if only lacking some of the exterior charm. but as you said, that can be addressed in time. i think you would like this one more because it is much more polished than the other and has about 300sq feet more of living space. if all goes well, and it's begining to look like it is, i'll post some shots of it when i can, to get your opinions.
RWS,
I see why you liked the place you didn't get. Glad to hear you found another and will hold a good thought for ya!
Originally posted by trumptman
So Fellowship what are the good/bad areas of Dallas/Fort Worth? I mean it would be like telling someone you live in L.A. I suppose with regard to size. What determines what is a good/bad home in the area?
I was checking out the prices through Realtor.com and I am telling you we would kill for some of those prices in California. :-)
Nick
I look at comp rates in a given area. Price per foot as related to comparable properties. I think each property has it's buyer. It all depends on the use of the property and the budget etc.
The good areas of Dallas / Fort Worth are numerous.
Highland park in Dallas.
Highland Park Link
Mira Vista in Fort Worth
Ridglea Country Club Estates in Fort Worth
Southlake in general
Grapevine in general
For older properties with charm:
Around the TCU area in Fort Worth around University Drive
Around the SMU area in Dallas near Henderson Drive and Oak Lawn
Turtle Creek in Dallas is Incredible!!!!
Check out homes at this link:
Homes on the market near Turtle Creek
Homes around Tour 18 in Flower Mound Texas are very nice
Tour 18
Ahhh
From this link:
Tour 18
Homes around West Village in Dallas Townhomes etc.
Homes around Lower Greenville in Dallas
Homes around Southlake Towne Center
So many good areas in the Dallas/Fort Worth area.
Homes around the 7th street area near the Modern in Fort Worth
Come visit sometime!
Fellowship
For example I was looking through Realtor.com and found this listing.
http://www.realtor.com/Prop/1019242930
This exact house, same age and vintage when I lived in Long Beach would be about $350k and where I live inland right now, (less expensive) It would be about $140-160k.
That house costs less than my electric bill most months.
In California there are variables that change housing prices and some of the housing in the desert is relatively inexpensive, but overall anywhere toward a suburban or city area is just insanely expensive.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
Thanks both Fellowship and Running for sharing so much about where you live. The values (housing not living
For example I was looking through Realtor.com and found this listing.
http://www.realtor.com/Prop/1019242930
This exact house, same age and vintage when I lived in Long Beach would be about $350k and where I live inland right now, (less expensive) It would be about $140-160k.
That house costs less than my electric bill most months.
In California there are variables that change housing prices and some of the housing in the desert is relatively inexpensive, but overall anywhere toward a suburban or city area is just insanely expensive.
Nick
Ahh Greenville Texas...... The reason that home is so inexpensive is the location. Greenville Texas is a creepy place I would NEVER visit or live in. It is the kind of place with racist minded bigots.
If that had been lower Greenville in Dallas Texas the price of a home like that would be more like $200,000 However the Greenville you linked to is like backwoods Arkansas with buba.
Fellowship
everything is going swimmingly so far on the new house. just finalizing some paperwork. closing should be sometime at the end of the month. here are some photos of the new place. let me know what you think.
new pics
Originally posted by running with scissors
just an update...
everything is going swimmingly so far on the new house. just finalizing some paperwork. closing should be sometime at the end of the month. here are some photos of the new place. let me know what you think.
new pics
I think that house is much more attractive than the other house. I especially like the shutters inside and out. I'm sure you wife will appreciate the much larger kitchen as well. I hope it was a good buy for you.
Nick
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
I look at comp rates in a given area. Price per foot as related to comparable properties. I think each property has it's buyer. It all depends on the use of the property and the budget etc.
The good areas of Dallas / Fort Worth are numerous.
Highland park in Dallas.
Highland Park Link
Mira Vista in Fort Worth
Ridglea Country Club Estates in Fort Worth
Southlake in general
Grapevine in general
For older properties with charm:
Around the TCU area in Fort Worth around University Drive
Around the SMU area in Dallas near Henderson Drive and Oak Lawn
Turtle Creek in Dallas is Incredible!!!!
Check out homes at this link:
Homes on the market near Turtle Creek
Homes around Tour 18 in Flower Mound Texas are very nice
Tour 18
Ahhh
From this link:
Tour 18
Homes around West Village in Dallas Townhomes etc.
Homes around Lower Greenville in Dallas
Homes around Southlake Towne Center
So many good areas in the Dallas/Fort Worth area.
Homes around the 7th street area near the Modern in Fort Worth
Come visit sometime!
Fellowship
Some nice cribs in that neck o' the woods
Originally posted by trumptman
I think that house is much more attractive than the other house. I especially like the shutters inside and out. I'm sure you wife will appreciate the much larger kitchen as well. I hope it was a good buy for you.
Nick
funny you should mention the shutters on the inside, it's one of the first things that we both thought we would take out. that and any border treatments like in the master bedroom. too town and country for our taste. we want to simplify things somewhat.
I wish you the best RWS!
Fellowship