masculinism vs. misogyny - Does fairness = hatred?
masculinism
Does men seeking equal rights in areas where they are unempowered or have minority status mean they hate women? When myself and others have posted such views here, misogyny is the first name/term some critics start tossing about.
Does believing men can be tortured in a relationship both mentally and physically mean that they hate women?
Does believing men have a right to see their children as an equal parent mean they hate women?
Does believing the courts will treat men only as banks and property in divorce and custody hearings mean that they hate women?
I don't believe so. I believe people who start calling men wanting fair treatment the same thing as hate speech is just wrong. It doesn't seek discussion, but rather seeks to further unempower men in areas where they are at a clear disadvantage. Seeking equality doesn't mean you seek an enemy or hate someone and I wish more "enlightened" folks here could see that.
Nick
Does men seeking equal rights in areas where they are unempowered or have minority status mean they hate women? When myself and others have posted such views here, misogyny is the first name/term some critics start tossing about.
Does believing men can be tortured in a relationship both mentally and physically mean that they hate women?
Does believing men have a right to see their children as an equal parent mean they hate women?
Does believing the courts will treat men only as banks and property in divorce and custody hearings mean that they hate women?
I don't believe so. I believe people who start calling men wanting fair treatment the same thing as hate speech is just wrong. It doesn't seek discussion, but rather seeks to further unempower men in areas where they are at a clear disadvantage. Seeking equality doesn't mean you seek an enemy or hate someone and I wish more "enlightened" folks here could see that.
Nick
Comments
Speaking of the education of childrens, at equal qualities of parents, i think it's logical that the women is preeminent in case of divorce. Normal women tend generally to invest themselves more time than normal fathers.
Speaking of me, my wife pass more time than me for their education. I have an important job to do : the father model. But in case of divorce, my wife will be more suited to take care of them. However divorce is bad for childrens and is not in the way for me.
Originally posted by Powerdoc
If the question of masculinism may have a sense in our occidental world it's absolutely clueless in many countries of the rest of the world.
Speaking of the education of childrens, at equal qualities of parents, i think it's logical that the women is preeminent in case of divorce. Normal women tend generally to invest themselves more time than normal fathers.
Speaking of me, my wife pass more time than me for their education. I have an important job to do : the father model. But in case of divorce, my wife will be more suited to take care of them. However divorce is bad for childrens and is not in the way for me.
Should we take up the old "Spent-more-time-with-your-kids-instead-of-posting-here-Powerdoc"-bashing?
Originally posted by Anders the White
Should we take up the old "Spent-more-time-with-your-kids-instead-of-posting-here-Powerdoc"-bashing?
Yes... go home powerdoc... your kids miss you... your wife misses you... your pets miss you...
I think trumptman's sense of what people think about him is a little off.
Originally posted by billybobsky
Yes... go home powerdoc... your kids miss you... your wife misses you... your pets miss you...
I think trumptman's sense of what people think about him is a little off.
You obviously didn't read the linked article.
Nick
Should we take up the old "Spent-more-time-with-your-kids-instead-of-posting-here-Powerdoc"-bashing?
Some addiction could not be cure, the AI addiction is one of them, i become litteraly clinically insane. Quit AI before there is still a chance of redemption for you man
Yes... go home powerdoc... your kids miss you... your wife misses you... your pets miss you...
You are right, but i am currently stuck at my office waiting that my last patient arrive. Kill the time, by surfing ...
Originally posted by Anders the White
You never put a fifth leg on a mouse to kill time? I know I would if I were you.
My mouse has no leg and only one button
Originally posted by Powerdoc
My mouse has no leg and only one button
DA EVAL SURGEON
Originally posted by Anders the White
DA EVAL SURGEON
no. but i can't really think of any respected or high quality in e.g. any work area. kindergartens? schools? hairdressers? cooking? i prefer male hairdressers, cooks, air host(esse)s, and have noticed in some countries people think anyone interested in hair cutting or dying must be a fag if it is a he, like that would be one of the "female only" work areas. i never understood why. (similarly as female if i work at construction, traffic, any men - majority work area, am i because of that, hating men? i don't see any logic).
Does believing men can be tortured in a relationship both mentally and physically mean that they hate women?
no. both can be and often are tortured in the relationship. i think by the physical point of view, men are likely to be stronger, so they are more likely to be the ones that torture physically (and women mentally, with their bitching "girl power"?).
Does believing men have a right to see their children as an equal parent mean they hate women?
dell no. the kids should be divided 50% - 50 % when applicable, e.g. when having 2, 4 or 6 kids...
Does believing the courts will treat men only as banks and property in divorce and custody hearings mean that they hate women?
i have never thought they would? this is not the question 1 about divorcing and the problems it causes, so why to marry at all?
" The purpose of "Dude Power" is to encourage young boys from a very early age that they are equal to girls, and that no one should be excluded from opportunities because of gender. I always think to myself, well if females get to have "Girl Power," then why can't we males have "Dude Power"? " from here. Uhhh? I never got to see what is the "girl power". Most girls are nasty, and bitch ... or maybe all the girls that happened to be in the same schools with me were full of the negative girl power. whatever. "equal" means normally "normalization", so instead of letting everyone be as they are (regardless of sex, color, religion etc) the "equality" sets the norms that are the same for everyone ... i don't think the sex of a person should be a point at all (when you are not involved with her/him in your private life).
Originally posted by trumptman
You obviously didn't read the linked article.
Nick
You obviously are easy to convince...
Originally posted by Anders You never put a fifth leg on a mouse to kill time? I know I would if I were you.
Very funny Anders, and perfect English too
Originally posted by Alex London
Very funny Anders, and perfect English too
It should read "You have never" or "Have you never".
Originally posted by trumptman
masculinism
Does men seeking equal rights in areas where they are unempowered or have minority status mean they hate women? When myself and others have posted such views here, misogyny is the first name/term some critics start tossing about.
Does believing men can be tortured in a relationship both mentally and physically mean that they hate women?
Does believing men have a right to see their children as an equal parent mean they hate women?
Does believing the courts will treat men only as banks and property in divorce and custody hearings mean that they hate women?
I don't believe so. I believe people who start calling men wanting fair treatment the same thing as hate speech is just wrong. It doesn't seek discussion, but rather seeks to further unempower men in areas where they are at a clear disadvantage. Seeking equality doesn't mean you seek an enemy or hate someone and I wish more "enlightened" folks here could see that.
Nick
I think that all of your questions could be answered in the negative: no, it does not equate to misogyny.
But that doesn't mean that I trust everyone who will jump on this bandwagon
Many men who are misogynistic and don't know it will ally around this 'movement' with a bitter feeling of finally being vindicated for some long list of imaginary wrongs done to them.
They will unconsciously use this movement to see women as the enemy: as castrating and malicious.
But, that doesn't mean that there are not some real issues of imbalance that have occured where men are getting a bad deal: for instance, the legal default of women and child custody.
The only thing that I wonder though is why you so gleefully would wear the badge of the 'downtrodden male victim'. I can't help but feel that it is an absurd overcompensation to a history of true imbalance, in a world where some real misogyny still exists and is even institutionalized in some countries (taliban being the worst example)
By the way, in some psychoanalytic readings of misogyny: the root of its occurence stems from the male's feeling of having been harmed by women's love of other-than. . . an imaginary harm that needs to be rectified . . . (all this is unconsciouse (at least in most cases) and results in unconsciouse aggression or overt aggression.
take it for what you will . . . just some observations
[edit: Oh, except that part about the psychoanalytic unconscious castration complex
It reminds me a bit of the national association for the advancement of white people: sure, the world is not perfectly fair, and sometimes whites systematically get the shaft, but do we really need another group of oppressed victims seeking empowerment? Especially whites and/or males?
Originally posted by pfflam
I think that all of your questions could be answered in the negative: no, it does not equate to misogyny.
But that doesn't mean that I trust everyone who will jump on this bandwagon
Many men who are misogynistic and don't know it will ally around this 'movement' with a bitter feeling of finally being vindicated for some long list of imaginary wrongs done to them.
They will unconsciously use this movement to see women as the enemy: as castrating and malicious.
But, that doesn't mean that there are not some real issues of imbalance that have occured where men are getting a bad deal: for instance, the legal default of women and child custody.
The only thing that I wonder though is why you so gleefully would wear the badge of the 'downtrodden male victim'. I can't help but feel that it is an absurd overcompensation to a history of true imbalance, in a world where some real misogyny still exists and is even institutionalized in some countries (taliban being the worst example)
By the way, in some psychoanalytic readings of misogyny: the root of its occurence stems from the male's feeling of having been harmed by women's love of other-than. . . an imaginary harm that needs to be rectified . . . (all this is unconsciouse (at least in most cases) and results in unconsciouse aggression or overt aggression.
take it for what you will . . . just some observations
I have no doubt that there are some mysogynistic men will gather around a men's movement. Likewise I have no doubt that there are some feminists that truly hate men, some affirmative actions foes and pro who are racist, and some religious and agnostics that seek to press their religion or lack thereof onto others.
Saying that a belief can embraced by an extreme for hatred is nothing new.
I am not a "downtrodden male victim" and do not seek that label. However the label I am very tired of wearing is "white male oppressor" which has be pinned on myself and others. This label cannot be taken off until there is proof of equality. However in many instances where there has been progress and even outright equality or more, the results cannot be acknowledged because there are entire organizations and cottage industries built around informing women of their oppression and perpetuating the past instead of moving beyond it.
There is a schism for example when people discuss affirmative action. Some people would like to see race-based affirmative action replaced with need based affirmative-action. The reasoning being that if minorities truly are poorer, they will still benefit disportionately, however at least then you won't have people who are disinfranchised and white simply tossed away.
The same could and should be said for gender relations. Custody and support should not be default assigned to women and men respectively as you mentioned. However what about sexual harassment, domestic violence, or rape? In many instances the laws and procedures assume guilt with no proof and proceed to destroy the man and his job or worse life.
It hasn't happened yet, but the point is a process like that shouldn't be declared legal/constitutional.(equal protection)
Think of it like Jim Crow laws, even if I didn't ride a bus or was black and wasn't asked to ride in the back, that doesn't mean I could rest with knowledge of the laws. I have knowledge of what the law has done to men, including family members and friends. I don't have to wait until it happens to me before I want a change.
Nick
That and sexual harassment suits. Men simply need to start filing similar frivolous suits and maybe the trend might change.