Pirating movies... while still in theaters.

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
Matrix: Downloaded



The US film industry is facing a crisis as online piracy looks set to cost the major studios up to $4bn (£2.5bn) annually within the next two years, according to a report to be published later this week.



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Question: Do you believe that every download equals a lost ticket sale? No doubt that is the logic they use to come up with these figures on how much piracy "costs" certain industries.



Real-life case:

I went to see Matrix: Reloaded the weekend after its release. I enjoyed the movie. A few days after I saw the movie in theaters (and paying for 3 tickets (me, gf and her mom)) I downloaded a bootleg from the magical internet.



I had it sitting on my hard drive until last night, when I watched it while eating a bag of microwave popcorn and drinkning a nice large glass of ice water. The quality wasn't so good so I skipped a lot of it to watch important parts again to see if I could catch anything new in the story that I missed the first time.



So the question is: Did Matrix:Reloaded lose a ticket sale when I watched it last night? Would I have gone to see it again in the theater?



And another question (I'm fond of asking questions):

How do you think the question of in-theater movie piracy compares to music piracy?
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 28
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    It's kind of a double edged sword. In your case, you paid, you enjoyed, one day you'll probably pay again.



    I remember when the second Star Wars movie came out (Attack of the Clones), I saw about 5 minutes of it on a VCD at a friends house. It was so bad I never saw it. Mind you, I wasn't real excited about seeing it in the first place, but had the scene been 'cool', I would have followed through with it. But it was so dumb, I didn't bother.



    The quality of a film recorded like that is usually poor anyway. It's not good enough for most people to enjoy. An MP3 is 'good enough' I think, while movies aren't. Except when they're done with a tripod, after hours so there's no crowd noise, etc.
  • Reply 2 of 28
    billybobskybillybobsky Posts: 1,914member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by groverat

    groverat confesses sins



    bad groverat bad.



    i would say video pirating of all forms has been around a lot longer than music pirating but its not the internet that has been supplying the forum for the copied talkies. its television and the vcr and the deal is that this was supposedly solved a long time ago by the movie corps just deciding that more profit in general with loss to men with parrots is better than less profit in general. now they are just getting greedy because the music industry has shown that pirates are just their bitches and do whatever they want...
  • Reply 3 of 28
    i only watch pirates if they are a "jerry". his work on "rochelle, rochelle" (a girls exotic journey from minsk to milan) was brilliant!



    seriously, i never thought studios were that concerned with pirates reducing ticket sales as much as hurting dvd/vhs sales. it's a particularly big problem in asia.
  • Reply 4 of 28
    ebbyebby Posts: 3,110member
    I bought 2 bootleg movies years ago. "Space Cowboys" and "Toy Story 3". Although I never made it through Toy Story completly, I now own Space Cowboys. (and yes, I did plan to buy Space Cowboys before I bought the bootleg for $2)



    Just because I could.
  • Reply 5 of 28
    toy story 3? (buzz takes woody to the chipper)



    somebody made a bootleg of space cowboys?



    somebody bought a bootleg of space cowboys?



    if you watch carefully you'll see they try to hide that fact that jim garner can hardly walk. (arthritic hip, i think)
  • Reply 6 of 28
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    I'm a pirate: Software and mp3s and TV shows and movies and just about anything else I can get my hands on, unabashed and unashamed.



    I think bunge hit on the argument I have that movies aren't going to be hurt by internet piracy: media quality.



    I buy a CD to take home and listen to. There is almost no difference in listening to a bought CD and a pirated, high-quality mp3.



    But I watched Matrix:Reloaded in theater and a bootleg on my computer and the difference in quality is damn near infinite.



    I will never watch a bootleg of an in-theater movie that I actually want to see, especially a movie like Matrix:Reloaded that depends heavily on visuals.



    Couple that with box office records being smashed left and right and I think this guy is just crying wolf.
  • Reply 7 of 28
    Quote:

    Originally posted by groverat

    I'm a pirate



    Arrrr!
  • Reply 8 of 28
    I used Bit Torrent to download Red Hat 9 the other week. I couldn't believe how fast it came down. I think that as soon as Bit Torrent gets some kind of GUI front end that allows people to search for DivX it'll do for movies and TV shows what Napster did for mp3s. Hollywood'll go apesh1t...but I agree that its going to impact DVD sales a lot more than box office.
  • Reply 9 of 28
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    I don't think it will even impact DVD sales all that much. DVDs offer all kinds of kickin' features like deleted scenes, "the making of...", running commentary, games and internet stuffs that just aren't available in .avi files you download from BT.



    (I looooove BT. )
  • Reply 10 of 28
    giaguaragiaguara Posts: 2,724member
    in europe the movies come out late. like all cartoons that are out here in summer (june or july) come out in europe for xmas. so, wait 5 months before it is on the movies, or download it.
  • Reply 11 of 28
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    I say pirate it (if you can stand the quality) until they realize that they need to do simultaneous release and not screw over large foreign markets.
  • Reply 12 of 28
    pfflampfflam Posts: 5,053member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by superkarate monkeydeathcar

    i only watch pirates if they are a "jerry". his work on "rochelle, rochelle" (a girls exotic journey from minsk to milan) was brilliant!



    Excellent work . . . .

    what a film . . .that interpretive denuement by the Martha Graham protogee near the end!!!!!!!!

    leaves me speechless everytime
  • Reply 13 of 28
    pfflampfflam Posts: 5,053member
    The same arguement can be used for warez. in fact, as I have argued elsewhere (to assuage my sense of guilt no doubt) that some measure of piracy is actually quite good for the software industry.



    I know how it hurts the small guy programmers, in that it takes their sales of cheaper versions from them . . . but, for the big Co.s it gives people a chance to learn and to use . . . and then, anybody in any sort of industry, creating content with those progz need to have legit versions, so they go out and buy what they know.
  • Reply 14 of 28
    pfflampfflam Posts: 5,053member
    . . . well . . . that's not actually the same arguement . . . .but its an arguement nonetheless!!\
  • Reply 15 of 28
    Quote:

    Originally posted by pfflam

    Excellent work . . . .

    what a film . . .that interpretive denuement by the Martha Graham protogee near the end!!!!!!!!

    leaves me speechless everytime




    oh god! i forgot that bit!

    i'm dying!!
  • Reply 16 of 28
    randycat99randycat99 Posts: 1,919member
    On the contrary, Groverat, you may have paid to see it once and then bootlegged it, but I know of 2 people where I work that were quite vocal about how they had already downloaded the movie, burned it to 2 CD's, and play it on their DVD player. This was first week the movie was out, I believe. I was astonished because these weren't what I would describe as particularly computer saavy users- just regular Joes. Yet the state of the pirating software was to a level that virtually anyone could burn a movie on a standard PC just on a whim. So I imagine there are a lot of people out there (literally just anyone who is reasonably comfortable using their PC) doing it and not bothering with going to the theater at all.



    I'm not exactly clear how the process goes, but my hunch is that they download a compact MPEG4 format of the movie over DSL, then burn it to 2 CDR's in SVCD format, to which is playable on multi-format compatible DVD players.



    FWIW, I only saw the movie just yesterday- a matinee showing in an empty theater. I got to choose the exact sweet spot seating, it was quiet, and literally no worries about what other people were doing. Now THAT is the way to go see a movie in a theater, ironically! The only downsides, matinee showing cost 7 freakin' fifty and the sound system wasn't all that hot (it certainly was loud, lots of lows, lots of highs, but the speakers that handled voice range were just harsh)! Why I remember a time when $7.50 could get you in for an evening showing. Ah well, I haven't been to the movies in a loooong time, so price shock is normal, I suppose. However, that does raise the issue of the relative enjoyment you can get by paying rental price and watching it on your own home theater system ($4.50 whether it is just you or your entire family- how can you beat that?) vs. paying the theater price per person and having to deal with the crowds and whatever sound equipment they decide to throw in there. It seems clear to me that the film industry is facing more than just straight piracy as a reason for decreasing fortunes. By refusing to address the more foremost issues, they simply encourage more piracy by people who want to do one simple thing- watch the freakin' movie w/o getting a$$-reamed (in myraid ways) at the box office.



    ...but didn't they make $100 mil the first week? So what are they complaining about, anyway? [hears baby crying in background]
  • Reply 17 of 28
    alcimedesalcimedes Posts: 5,486member
    funny part is, i'm reripping, reburning all of my DVD's to DVD's that only have the movie on them.



    deleted scenes are usually deleted for a reason. the commentary is almost always stupid. i wanna watch my movie. no FBI warnings that can't be forwarded, no trailers, no nothing.



    just put the movie in and watch.
  • Reply 18 of 28
    billybobskybillybobsky Posts: 1,914member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by alcimedes

    funny part is, i'm reripping, reburning all of my DVD's to DVD's that only have the movie on them.



    deleted scenes are usually deleted for a reason. the commentary is almost always stupid. i wanna watch my movie. no FBI warnings that can't be forwarded, no trailers, no nothing.



    just put the movie in and watch.








    old man, the entire point of entertainment is to distract the mind, there is no reason to own a dvd if you arent going to appreciate the white noise that is added to the white noise that is the movie, if you can drool through the movie you can drool through the commentary, you can drool through the menu... just let your mind slip and relax...



  • Reply 19 of 28
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    Randycat:



    Quote:

    On the contrary, Groverat, you may have paid to see it once and then bootlegged it, but I know of 2 people where I work that were quite vocal about how they had already downloaded the movie, burned it to 2 CD's, and play it on their DVD player.



    Contrary to what? I fully realize there are people who don't care as much about the actual experience of being in the theater, I never meant to say there are no such people.



    There are movies I've downloaded that I never saw in the theater or even rented and that I never intended to see. But the convenience and the illusion of inexpensiveness (I say illusion because it costs me $50/mth for a cable modem) has allowed me to watch movies I never would have before.



    Before movie piracy became prevalent I just didn't watch as many movies, period. I rented more, but usually out of inertia (where renting is more about habit than actually wanting to see a movie).



    Quote:

    I'm not exactly clear how the process goes, but my hunch is that they download a compact MPEG4 format of the movie over DSL, then burn it to 2 CDR's in SVCD format, to which is playable on multi-format compatible DVD players.



    The SVCDs available for Matrix:Reloaded are pure crap. They are worse than the bootleg I have.



    Quote:

    FWIW, I only saw the movie just yesterday- a matinee showing in an empty theater. I got to choose the exact sweet spot seating, it was quiet, and literally no worries about what other people were doing. Now THAT is the way to go see a movie in a theater, ironically!



    Oh I agree 100%!

    I see the vast majority of movies later than the release date at a matinee with few people around. The last big movie I saw on the opening weekend was Spiderman, and then only because a friend bought the ticket and invited me.



    Quote:

    It seems clear to me that the film industry is facing more than just straight piracy as a reason for decreasing fortunes. By refusing to address the more foremost issues, they simply encourage more piracy by people who want to do one simple thing- watch the freakin' movie w/o getting a$$-reamed (in myraid ways) at the box office.



    Exactly.

    They pay actors $20 million, spend $150 million overall to make the movie and wonder why they need to sell so many tickets to cover costs.



    As long as movies like My Big Fat Greek Wedding come out I will remain unconvinced that movie piracy is going to do real damage.



    The film industry, I think, will be much better at handling the problem than Big Music. They survived the threat of VHS and they will survive the internet. The movie rental business will suffer, but them's the breaks of capitalism.
  • Reply 20 of 28
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by alcimedes

    funny part is, i'm reripping, reburning all of my DVD's to DVD's that only have the movie on them.



    deleted scenes are usually deleted for a reason. the commentary is almost always stupid. i wanna watch my movie. no FBI warnings that can't be forwarded, no trailers, no nothing.



    just put the movie in and watch.




    That's... weird.



    Just hit the play button, the FBI warning can't be more than 15 seconds!



    Some commentary is good; my roomie has a nice French Connection set that is super-sweet with the commentary.



    Also, the Making Of... stuff with LotR:FotR rocks my socks.



    It's capitalism: How do you deal with a threat to your business? Compete!
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