Two simple questions--one on current macs and one on future macs...

thegeldingthegelding
Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
1. when the 970 PM's come out on june 23rd, how low will prices go on current towers and even current iMacs and eMacs (or will the consumer machines not be effected by the new stuff)?



2. how long till the iMac and eMac go 970 also...or will they go gobi then mojave like the iBook is expect to.



"Pro line"



PM---970 in june (shipping in july hopefully)

PB stay G4 till updated to 970 chips in sept with the panther release



"Consumer line"



iMac FP--G4 till update to Gobi chips in sept--mojave in march/april of 2004...won't get 970 till 2005

eMac--just updated--might go gobi at christmas shopping time, but the eMac could go back to an education machine in which case updates aren't as important as price...apple could go with the cheapest, good chip and keep the eMac fairly stagnant

iBook--making the iBook G4 at this time would be silly and no way it is going 970 anytime soon...but i want that old G3 chip out of here dammit...how long till gobi is ready?? does it have altivec (apple will not allow a new chip without it)...please apple please, have an iBook with altivec for the school shopping season...ie. have an updated iBook at least announced in July...ship in august...





g





Future Hardware

Focused discussion and speculation about future Apple hardware.



ha, since when is FH focused??

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 13
    pscatespscates Posts: 5,847member
    That's funny, because I woke up today kinda thinking all that stuff myself. Here I am, on the brink of a purchase within 2 months and with all this supposedly "confirmed" 970 talk, I don't know WHAT to do!







    No, I'm not getting a new 970 tower, but this announcement/unveiling on the 23rd might have ripples that reach out to the other products, you know?



    1. Could the iBook get either a G4 or a Altivec-equipped G3 (I guess that's possible, right? People talk about it, so I just go along...I actually don't know)



    2. Is there ANY chance at all this new 15" aluminum PowerBook could be 970-based? As kinda a cute "oh yeah, one more thing..."? Several sites said that they were ready to go for MWSF in January, but some sort of last minute redesign/rethinking popped up.







    What if that was "hey, let's REALLY knock their socks off and - in addition to the towers - give them a 970 PowerBook in everyone's favorite size...".







    Granted, I know this immediately would make the 12" and 17" models look weak or "out of whack", so I don't know.



    I really don't.



    Like thegelding, I feel like we're really on the cusp of awesome, major changes and improvements. And while that's TOTALLY great on one hand, on the other it has put a slight governor on some pretty dialed-in purchase plans I had.







    I don't want to drop $2000-2600 and only to find out that if I'd waited another month, I could've gotten either a 970 PowerBook OR a G4 or G3+Altivec iBook (either of which are totally acceptable, of course).



    I don't know gelding...when you find something out, let ME know!



  • Reply 2 of 13
    pscatespscates Posts: 5,847member
    Although, I guess it's safe to assume if they roll out a new aluminum 15" model this month (which EVERYONE is pretty much in agreement on) and it's a 1-1.2GHz G4, I guess it's a safe bet that the PowerBook line will stay G4-based until 2004, huh?



    There's this tiny part of me that just says "buy the damn $1299 12" iBook so you can immediately 'go mobile' and spend the next 6-9 months saving up and be one of the first to get a 970 15" PowerBook in 2004.







    I could buy a $1299 iBook by the first week of July, actually. That's just from savings...not even selling the iMac!



    I then a) get a laptop right away, b) can casually sell the iMac when the mood/time hits and c) take the remainder of 2003 (August-December) to sock back $500/month AND sell the iMac in the coming months (giving me a nice chunk of about $3500 going into January 2004).



    And, actually, I'd have a 12" iBook to sell by then too, so we're talking low/mid-$4000s!







    What would YOU do?







    In all this uncertainty, I'm tempted to get a cheap "stopgap" iBook to travel this summer and autumn with and THEN go into 2004 with a gob of cash to spend on the ULTIMATE PowerBook (MWSF, springtime, etc.).



    Why can't that damn $999 iBook come with a CD-R. I really need/want one, but I gotta spend $1299 to get the next up, a Combo Drive model.



    It's times like these that I wish Apple truly offered BTO options across the board and on ALL models, because I'd just get a $999 iBook and outfit it with a CD-RW only drive to get through the next 6 or so months.
  • Reply 3 of 13
    snoopysnoopy Posts: 1,901member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by thegelding





    . . . how long till the iMac and eMac go 970 also...or will they go gobi then mojave like the iBook is expect to.



    . . . iMac FP--G4 till update to Gobi chips in sept--mojave in march/april of 2004...won't get 970 till 2005







    I doubt that any present G4 Mac will be "downgraded" with the Gobi G3, which will not have AltiVec according to the best guesses so far. Mojave is rumored to have AltiVec, however.



    So, what is a likely processor strategy? Any of the present G4 Macs might get an IBM 970 within the next year. However, any Mac that stays with the G4 may then get Mojave when it arrives.



    What about Gobi? It's likely for the iBook and maybe a rumored low end Mac. These would then get the Mojave when it arrives, at which time all Macs will have AltiVec.



    That's what makes sense to me anyway.
  • Reply 4 of 13
    thegeldingthegelding Posts: 3,230member
    guess i am just hoping that since apple insisted that the 970 have altivec, that they will have insisted that gobi has altivec also...i would love it if apple stopped having to use the old g3 and moving to gobi is great...but do we want another year of the iBook not running altivec waiting for mojave??



    g
  • Reply 5 of 13
    709709 Posts: 2,016member
    I've kind of been fretting about the impact new 970 machines will have on the resale value of 'older' G4 hardware.



    In particular, I'm thinking...should I put my Dual533 Digital Audio up at eBay while I might still be able to make a few decent bucks from it...or should I hold on to it and hope for some new miraculous upgrade cards (not 970 cards, more like new Moto chip cards) to breathe new life into it?



    Decisions, decisions...\
  • Reply 6 of 13
    ensign pulverensign pulver Posts: 1,193member
    We've got to work backwards people. The key to all of this is the 970 at .09. That's when things getting really interesting from a heat and power perspective. That is the chip that will power of all Apple's low end machines.



    Assuming that a .09 970 will be available in 9 months or so, what's the point of using the rumored Gobi at all? Why develop a different motherboard for iMacs, eMacs and iBooks when everthing that's being applied to the PMs now can be rolled over?



    Bottom line: Apple should go all 970 across the entire product line as soon as possible. Let iBooks be differentiated from Powerbooks and iMacs from Power Macs by processor speed and the number of processors, not the type of processor. The more chips they buy from IBM the cheaper they'll be anyway.
  • Reply 7 of 13
    snoopysnoopy Posts: 1,901member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by thegelding

    guess i am just hoping that since apple insisted that the 970 have altivec, that they will have insisted that gobi has altivec also...i would love it if apple stopped having to use the old g3 and moving to gobi is great...but do we want another year of the iBook not running altivec waiting for mojave??



    g





    I too think that AltiVec in Gobi would be fantastic, but that is my wishful thinking. It probably will not happen. On the other hand, Gobi could come in at a really nice clock rate. A 1.5 GHz iBook would not be too hard to take. For the iBook market that might make do til Mojave gets here. Also I think there is a good chance Apple will introduce a really low end desktop with Gobi too. Maybe that is just wishful thinking however.



    Apple has an opportunity to help debunk the Megahertz myth here. Up to now, Apple has not used a G3 in the iBook with a higher clock rate than the G4s. This could change. With the processing power of the IBM 970, what better way to illustrate it than to do just that? The iBook could have a 1.5 GHz G3 while the 970 may run at 1.2 GHz in Powerbooks and maybe the iMac. Then Apple just needs to publish some performance benchmarks to make their point.
  • Reply 8 of 13
    snoopysnoopy Posts: 1,901member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Ensign Pulver





    . . . Bottom line: Apple should go all 970 across the entire product line as soon as possible. Let iBooks be differentiated from Powerbooks and iMacs from Power Macs by processor speed and the number of processors, not the type of processor. The more chips they buy from IBM the cheaper they'll be anyway.



    Your goal to use more 970 CPUs to drop price is valid, but I believe there are other factors that make it impractical to use the 970 across the product line, ever. The very highest performance CPU will always have additions to it for the peak of performance. As the the process shrinks to make a smaller, lower power die, new ways to increase performance will likely be added. So the top chip will always run hotter, have a larger die and cost more than some alternative CPU. Apple needs that lower power, less costly alternative for things like the iBook and other Macs for price sensitive markets.
  • Reply 9 of 13
    paulpaul Posts: 5,278member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by pscates

    Why can't that damn $999 iBook come with a CD-R. I really need/want one, but I gotta spend $1299 to get the next up, a Combo Drive model.



    buy used
  • Reply 10 of 13
    pscatespscates Posts: 5,847member
    Never! Too many horror stories and even bad personal experiences. Besides, on the iBooks that did offer CD-R drives only, weren't those the older 66MHz models?



    And I know they didn't have the newer 32MB graphics AND the roomy 40GB hard drives.



    I know I'm considering going backwards a BIT (albeit only temporarily), but I don't want to go completely prehistoric and borderline unusable!







    And I gotta consider resale value too. When I go to sell this thing in 6-9 months, a fairly recent 900MHz model with Combo Drive, 32MB graphics, 40GB hard drive, extra RAM, an AirPort card already installed, 100MHz bus and another 6 or so months left on the warranty is going to look much nicer than a 1-2 year old model.



    About all I'm willing to "go backwards" on is going from a G4 to a G3 and a SuperDrive to a speedy Combo Drive. And that's enough! I'm not going to also take a hit on hard drive space, graphics performance and bus speed.



  • Reply 11 of 13
    ensign pulverensign pulver Posts: 1,193member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by snoopy

    Your goal to use more 970 CPUs to drop price is valid, but I believe there are other factors that make it impractical to use the 970 across the product line, ever... Apple needs that lower power, less costly alternative for things like the iBook and other Macs for price sensitive markets.



    Just for the next year, exactly like when the G3 came out. In 1998 the whole Mac product line went G3 and Apple had one of its best years ever.



    We have a similar opportunity with the 970. Call it the G5, put it in everything as soon as possible, and by the time differentiation becomes a problem the 980 will be available for the pro machines. Then the G5 at .09 becomes the low end chip and the Mac platform settles in for the long haul.
  • Reply 12 of 13
    snoopysnoopy Posts: 1,901member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Ensign Pulver

    Just for the next year, exactly like when the G3 came out. In 1998 the whole Mac product line went G3 and Apple had one of its best years ever.



    We have a similar opportunity with the 970. Call it the G5, put it in everything as soon as possible, and by the time differentiation becomes a problem the 980 will be available for the pro machines. Then the G5 at .09 becomes the low end chip and the Mac platform settles in for the long haul.



    Well, it might work if the 970 is indeed cheap enough. Makes me wonder why IBM is developing Gobi, and who will buy it? Possibly it's for the embedded market? Anyone know?
  • Reply 13 of 13
    oldcodger73oldcodger73 Posts: 707member
    <<I could buy a $1299 iBook by the first week of July, actually. That's just from savings...not even selling the iMac!>>



    With the drop in price of the 12" Powerbook, a very strong case can be made that the iBooks are overpriced and that a reduction in their cost will occur in the future. It's possible that the 12" combo iBook will drop to the $999 - $1099 range. Things might become more clear after June 23
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