SDW=1, Nameless GMC Dealer "X" =0.
Well, I finally did it. My wife and I got a new GMC Envoy XL, SLT 4WD. (please, let's not go down the "Why'd you get the SUV, why are you killing the planet, why'd you buy new, blah blah, blah BLAH route).
After we had the baby, we knew we'd need some serious cargo space. We pretty much made the choice months ago, but were waiting 'till my lease was nearer to the end. "Anywho:"
I beat the hell out of these guys. They quoted me a first price of $3,000 under sticker (not all bad, I guess). They, thinking that I think I could actually know their true cost by looking at an invoice, tried to tell me that was $150 over their "cost". Having done this before, I talked about the number with them, then left and went to another dealer. Oooohhh....they HATE that.
The second dealer didn't really have what I wanted, so I decided to play hard ball with the first. After a quick call to the wife, we decided to get serious. I was playing for keeps this time, and offered them $2,500 LESS than their "best deal" price. They laughed. We negotiated...upwards, until we reached a price $1000 under their best deal. They pulled out their "invoice" (I believe Wayne would say...."AS IF!!!) and I picked it apart, then showed them, according to my math, what their actual invoice was. Anyway, after we fought for awhile the sales manager came out at my request and agreed on the price. Not ten minutes before, I was told the best they could do was perhaps $200 less than their "best deal". I got $1000.
So, I paid $4,132 under sticker, which probably puts them into their holdback (and the car's been on the lot for a while so that's not good for them). I also got a whopping $4,250 in rebates because I provided my own financing. I've prided myself on beating the hell out of dealers, but getting a car for $8,382 under sticker is a personal best for me. Picking up the car Thursday night.
Any stories to share? I know the dealer's tactic well, and I'm sure some of you do too. I'm not naive enought think they made nothing, but I think I did pretty well.
After we had the baby, we knew we'd need some serious cargo space. We pretty much made the choice months ago, but were waiting 'till my lease was nearer to the end. "Anywho:"
I beat the hell out of these guys. They quoted me a first price of $3,000 under sticker (not all bad, I guess). They, thinking that I think I could actually know their true cost by looking at an invoice, tried to tell me that was $150 over their "cost". Having done this before, I talked about the number with them, then left and went to another dealer. Oooohhh....they HATE that.
The second dealer didn't really have what I wanted, so I decided to play hard ball with the first. After a quick call to the wife, we decided to get serious. I was playing for keeps this time, and offered them $2,500 LESS than their "best deal" price. They laughed. We negotiated...upwards, until we reached a price $1000 under their best deal. They pulled out their "invoice" (I believe Wayne would say...."AS IF!!!) and I picked it apart, then showed them, according to my math, what their actual invoice was. Anyway, after we fought for awhile the sales manager came out at my request and agreed on the price. Not ten minutes before, I was told the best they could do was perhaps $200 less than their "best deal". I got $1000.
So, I paid $4,132 under sticker, which probably puts them into their holdback (and the car's been on the lot for a while so that's not good for them). I also got a whopping $4,250 in rebates because I provided my own financing. I've prided myself on beating the hell out of dealers, but getting a car for $8,382 under sticker is a personal best for me. Picking up the car Thursday night.
Any stories to share? I know the dealer's tactic well, and I'm sure some of you do too. I'm not naive enought think they made nothing, but I think I did pretty well.
Comments
Oh btw, shame on you for buying an SUV!
Originally posted by Randycat99
You dirty dog, you! I could only wish to have the level of salesmanship you demonstrated (I'm really terrible at this sort of thing).
Oh btw, shame on you for buying an SUV!
nice work. what is the invoice on the envoy? is that a small, midsize or large suv?
Originally posted by Scott
I know you don't want to hear it but did you really need an SUV for one baby?
Here we go.
The answer is no. But, we also have an 85 pound collie whom we need to keep separate from her. We also wanted a lot of cargo space. In addition, it's going to be my car (my lease was coming up) so I'd PREFER not to drive minivan (In our opinion, the only other real option).
chinney:
You are one evil dude SDW. I thought that what was good for GMC was good for America (or maybe that was GE, or maybe GWB). By cutting into corporate profits, you cause GW Bush and his friends to sink into a deep deep funk. This can only undermine the ongoing war effort.
I need the third seat it offers to give your big Straw Man a ride.
progmac:
nice work. what is the invoice on the envoy? is that a small, midsize or large suv?
Invoice depends on equipment of course. And, people need to realize that the dealer invoice is basically fiction. They get secret factory to dealer incentives, holdback, etc. We, as consumers, can never know their real cost. I'm sure they made at least $1K on me. The difference is, if I do say so myself, I know that going in.
The vehicle I got is essentially a large SUV, because it's the XL with the third seat. I got the 4WD SLT model, with 6 disc Cd changer, comfort and convenenience, load-level suspension (don't need it...but it was there) and Bose audio. Oh, and sunroof. I didn't care about that in an SUV, but after seeing it...it really makes the vehicle feel a lot more open.
The invoice, which they showed me without my asking (unusual), was like $37,700 as equipped. The sticker was a whopping $41,020. Their first offer was about $37,900 or so. Not bad, but I took them down another thousand.
I also had a few lease payments left to be considered (I needed to get rid of my Maxima because I was out of warranty recently...and we needed the bigger vechicle). So, we figured this in the price (not included above) and they are cutting me a check to pay it off. Here's the kicker: since they had to add the lease payments into the purchase price, they tried to charge me sales tax on the entire amount. I argued about that, since the lease payments were *not* a taxable sale. I got them to add the tax on the lease payments onto the lease rebate check...about another $100.
I also got a whopping $4,250 in rebates because I provided my own financing.
So was this in addition to talking them down to $36,900 or was that including the incentives?
I'll share my most recent story.
I own(ed) a 1970 RV which I had originally purchased for $800. I wanted to learn about RV's, home repair (they have all the same systems), and just generally improve my fix up skills.
I made about $1000 worth of improvements to the RV estimating very aggressively. I installed indoor outdoor carpet from Home Depot, I painted the panels from some appliances white, tore it open and replaced some rotting wood and paneling, etc. I paid my brother to go through and rebuild the engine in his spare time for $600 total.
My wife loved the work I had done however there was one thing I could not do about the RV. It was only about 20 feet long (that was the longest that could fit in our driveway back at our old house) and she thought it was too small. So I sold it for $2200 cash to a nice gentleman.
I turned around and found a nice 27 ft RV with a recently installed $1200 fridge, an extra RV-sized freezer, microwave, etc. The works. It is a 1974 with a Dodge 440 and sleeps 7 while our other RV only slept 4. I checked to insure it had no wood rot. (Amazingly I am much better and finding and knowing about that now
I paid $2000 cash for it.
I plan on using the extra $200 to update the flooring to either vinyl or possible some of that snap in wood flooring to give it a kind of classy look.
Nick
To answer your question:
The sticker was 41,020. I paid $36,888, not including rebates of $4,250. This brings the total (not including the lease payments left) to $32,638. That means a paid $8,382 less than the sticker...or a whopping 20%.
You got a good deal, but man, that's still a helluva lot of money to spend on a car. That's gotta be one year's take-home pay for you. A friend of mine has a big family with two teenagers, and has three cars. His car payments are more than his mortgage payment. There's something seriously wrong with spending that much on consumption rather than investment. Eh, I'm a snob because I ride my bike to work.
I got my bass amp and cabinets for about 500 dollars off the sale price, Saved a total of 800 dollars. By haggling a little but also because the guy likes me so he gave me the best possible price.
Originally posted by Argento
I got a free dildo once......you don't want to know what I had to do to get that.
Don't worry Argento, I won't show them the pictures...
Nick
(the sad part is i'm not kidding)
right Sock-O?
Originally posted by BRussell
SDW, you've got to learn that Nick will ALWAYS beat you at this game.
You got a good deal, but man, that's still a helluva lot of money to spend on a car. That's gotta be one year's take-home pay for you. A friend of mine has a big family with two teenagers, and has three cars. His car payments are more than his mortgage payment. There's something seriously wrong with spending that much on consumption rather than investment. Eh, I'm a snob because I ride my bike to work.
BRussell,
If the game is net-worth, I don't do too badly, but there are others here who do better than I. That is a lot for a vehicle and I wouldn't buy new, but it still sounds like SDW did his best and got a good deal.
$742.48 (assuming about $3,000 for lease pay-off, fees, etc.) a month for 48 months though, there are a lot of things I could buy for that.
Nick
Originally posted by alcimedes
you have the pictures too?
(the sad part is i'm not kidding)
right Sock-O?
You wouldn't by chance have a [email protected] email would you?
Technically, the rebates you got didn't come out of the dealer's pocket, since that's from the manufacturer. They're happy to give you those, since it makes you (the customer) even happier. My dad was raving about the $500 he got, just because my 944 sits on his driveway, for example.
In any case, negotiating with a dealer is mandatory, and I think you did extremely well for yourself.
Originally posted by GardenOfEarthlyDelights
Typical gross margins on SUVs from the manufacturer is 25%. What the dealers tack on is an obscenity. There's a lot more negotiating room for an SUV than say, a Focus.
Technically, the rebates you got didn't come out of the dealer's pocket, since that's from the manufacturer. They're happy to give you those, since it makes you (the customer) even happier. My dad was raving about the $500 he got, just because my 944 sits on his driveway, for example.
In any case, negotiating with a dealer is mandatory, and I think you did extremely well for yourself.
Thanks. My family is starting to recruit me for their car shpping needs!
My Dad told me that in FL, some dealers have Lincoln Navigators marked down....wait for it....$15,000 off sticker! Apparently, Ford makes another $15K on the car. This means a $60,000 SUV costs less than $30K to make.
They could care less about the rebates. I agree. It's amazing how many people think that the rebates are the discount, though. The dealer cares if people are stupid...that's how they make money. What I did was offer them an absurd price. The orginal price they quoted me for the vehicle was "$150 over invoice". I offered them $2500 less than that. Then, I came up in $500 increments another $1,500. Then, we subtracted the $3000 rebate, the $750 GM owner loyalty, and the $500 Conquest discount (for having a non-GM car as well)
The price: It's an absurd amount of money. I know that. But, as trumptman and I have discussed before, I'm convinced that new is the way to go. A lot of folks disagree, but I've come to the conclusion that no matter what one does, he/she is going to PAY substantial dollars to drive ANY car. I'm choosing to pay a bit more and drive a new car. I've done the numbers, and I'm convinced driving used is not worth it in most cases. Trumptman disagrees and that's fine.
We did it through home equity (fixed). The interest is tax deductible and the minumum payment is low. It's a fifteen year loan, but my real goal is simply to keep it from going "upside down" (vehicle worth less than loan amount). In other words, I'll lease it from myself while still buying it. When I'm done, my equity will be right back where it was, and in 6-7 years I'll be ready for another vehicle.
It's also secured debt on an appreciating asset (the house) so it's better than a car loan. With a regular car loan, the car is "worth what it is worth" at the end...perhaps 70% less than you paid. You've made your payments, and that's it. With this, the money is back where it started. The vehicle is now listed as an asset because I'll have the title outright. Yes, I have the loan liability, but as I said it's secured debt, so it's not just a straight-out liability. Our net worth actually doesn't change much from this purchase, because what I'm really doing is paying down the depreciation...which, BTW will be clsoe to what a used car payment would be. And, a used car won't last 6-7 years for most people. I'd have to buy another one in 4 years.
Many say a car is an investment, and a terrible one at that. I basically disagree. One buys a car to drive. It's like any other product, but more expensive. One doesn't hear people talking about what a lousy investment a Pismo PowerBook is worth now ($400-700) because it had a "sticker" of $3500 when new.
Originally posted by Matsu
Used american scrap is definitely the way to go. The things have no resale value, so that's good for the buyer, and a little research will show you which ones run for miles and miles without major trouble.
I don't agree. Any decent used car is going to cost $10-15K. Then, the buyer is exposed to a lack of original warrantty, repairs, added interest because the car is used and most importantly...the buyer is paying every month to drive a 4-5 year old vehicle.
One can, of course, buy cash. But what is one going to be able to buy for cash? Most people I know don't have an exra $15K sitting around, no matter what their income is. It's just reality. Sure, we can sit back and poo-poo those who don't save enough, spend too much; but, that's not really the problem when it comes to a car. They're just too damn expensive. People also think that if they buy cash, they don;t have a payment. That's not true. One has to amortize for repairs and the monthly savings for the NEXT car.
In most cases, buying a used car is poor man's thinking. No offense intended at all.
Originally posted by SDW2001
I don't agree. Any decent used car is going to cost $10-15K. Then, the buyer is exposed to a lack of original warrantty, repairs, added interest because the car is used and most importantly...the buyer is paying every month to drive a 4-5 year old vehicle.
One can, of course, buy cash. But what is one going to be able to buy for cash? Most people I know don't have an exra $15K sitting around, no matter what their income is. It's just reality. Sure, we can sit back and poo-poo those who don't save enough, spend too much; but, that's not really the problem when it comes to a car. They're just too damn expensive. People also think that if they buy cash, they don;t have a payment. That's not true. One has to amortize for repairs and the monthly savings for the NEXT car.
In most cases, buying a used car is poor man's thinking. No offense intended at all.
SDW, please don't rehash this again. Your assumptions lead to your conclusions. Others have different assumptions and have had different results. Congrats on the new vehicle. I hope it works trouble free until the next millenium.
And as for poor man's thinking... I'm not the millionaire next door, but I don't do too badly.
Nick