What about a new Duo/docking station?
Wouldnt the 12" PowerBook be ideal as the laptop part of a new combination product laptop/desktop?
SJ did mention the Duo during his keynote. Did he by that prepare the grounds for an announcement of a new dockingstation?
The 12" Powerbook does have all connectors on the left side, while it has the optical-drive slot on the right side. Therefore you could easily insert it into a docking-station and still have the optical-drive-slot at reach.
For me this would be a real alternative!
[ 01-15-2003: Message edited by: Gulliver ]</p>
SJ did mention the Duo during his keynote. Did he by that prepare the grounds for an announcement of a new dockingstation?
The 12" Powerbook does have all connectors on the left side, while it has the optical-drive slot on the right side. Therefore you could easily insert it into a docking-station and still have the optical-drive-slot at reach.
For me this would be a real alternative!
[ 01-15-2003: Message edited by: Gulliver ]</p>
Comments
<strong>That would be going backward. SJ's reference was simply to indicate that the new Powerbook was the smallest laptop Apple has every put out (by several millimetres).</strong><hr></blockquote>
In what way is a docking station going backwards precisely?
An elegant docking solution, as opposed to a port replication solution, could provide more I/O - including a faster DVD-R solution - and at least one PCI slot which would be a welcome thing as far as I'm concerned.
The power port on the right of my iBook is the reason I never bought a BookEnds Dock for it. As Gulliver points out, now that the 12" PowerBook includes the power port with the other ports on the left side, there is no reason not to have a dock. The 12" PowerBook can mirror an external display at resolutions up to 1600x1200 and is clearly powerful enough to be a desktop replacement. A Duo-style docking station (along with an external LCD, keyboard and mouse) is a logical complement to the 12" PowerBook.
As for the style of the new Dock, I would like it to "suck up" the 12" PowerBook just like a VCR "sucks up" a VHS tape, i.e. like the old Duo Dock did. Even though they are not bad, <a href="http://www.bookendzdocks.com/bookendz/index.htm"; target="_blank">BookEndz Docks</a> don't do it for me. I want a dock that is stable/heavy enough so that I can connect my 'Book to it with one hand (not with one hand on the dock and one on the 'Book).
Long live the Duo Dock!
Escher
<strong>An elegant docking solution, as opposed to a port replication solution,</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think Mark-CCFR captures part of the distinction I was trying to make above. However, I'm not sure how much additional functionality, beyond port replication, a new Dock should provide. I think I would rather have a simple port-replicating VCR/Duo-style "suck up" Dock for $200 than a fancy Dock with faster DVD, larger HDD and a PCI slot for $500. The reason for this is that you can add most (but not all) functionality to a port-replicating Dock via FireWire. Having a PCI or similar slot in a Dock would require a new connector (directly to the mobo) on the PowerBook. I entertain no hope of Apple installing a "docking" connector on any new PowerBook.
The 12" PowerBooks has plenty of ports. Let's be pragmatic and work on a Dock based on the existing ports.
Escher
The powerbooks and ibooks of today are very different machines. First of all, they have almost every port you could want built in. Secondly they have dual monitor capability (via a hack with the ibooks) which would make a "VCR style" Duo Dock a bad choice IMO -- can't use the computer's great internal LCD in conjunction with the external monitor.
It's true that the slightly modified layout of the 12" powerbook makes port replicators a bit more attractive (and I am interested to see if third party manufacturers come out with something), but in general I have found them to be too expensive for what they are, and also too finicky (have to be plugged in just right or they don't work).
Somethings that I find intriguing about a docking station and that I feel would encourage me to spend money include:
1. The obvious, elegant access to faster, bigger hd's and the subsequent ability to do easy backups and partitioning of hd for unix heads and such.
2. Another option for an Airport Base station (with more power and an extendible antenna?). So that even if you spent much of the time wired to the dock station, in an office or home environment, you could still move from meeting to meeting and from kitchen to neighbor's porch and still have access to the docking station and it's internet access.
3. PCI cards in a docking station would make a really, truly viable desktop machine that would only be limited by processor speed in the really cpu intensive apps. ("...over half of our computers will be portables...") PowerMacs become a smaller segment, but a much more focused segment?
4. A place for optional multiple cpu's that automatically cluster whenever the PBook is docked ... using an exotic technology of the future. Now the the segment for the PowerMac gets even smaller?
5. For business users: A place to plug in a telephone jack to add voice FAX/telephony to the mix.
6. Extra ports for speakers and printers.
Okay so now I just need my pda, extra 17" Apple monitor that collects dust and the 12"PowerBook with docking station ... and that IS all I need ....
... and Apple gets from me:
$1,899 for the 12"PowerBook w/AirPortXcard
$200 for the basic docking station
with modem
standard 80 gig harddrive
empty PCI slots (2)
empty drive bays (2)
$99 for the Airport card in the dock
Then at anytime I can spend money for PCI cards and extra hard drives and a DVD burner and grow my investment as I need to.
Does this sound intriguing to anyone else?
The configuration of what you could add via PCI could allow for Home or Business bundling. [Wierd flashback-like feeling] It almost reminds me of back in the day, years ago, when we dreamed of Apple producing a wide array of hardware solutions...before the 4-square product line. Now the capability of the laptop is so great that all of these solutions could be pieced together in a much simpler, more elegant, more Apple-like mannner. [Back to present-day reality]
Sticking point: This doesn't give Apple as much money as it would via the PowerMac and iBook combination that I had (until the keynote) so far contemplated.
1) Integrated USB/Firewire hub - Like the U.F.O. / iRise, the 12" PB dock could act as a hub, giving you additional ports right away.
2) Video Output port - Instead of plugging your VGA dongle or Composite/S-Video dongle into the dock, you would have the dock plugged into the video output on the PB, but give you VGA, Composite and S-Video out all in one package on the dock itself.
3) Multiple audio in/outs - Remember the extra headphone ports on the old iMacs? Same idea: two or more headphone outs on the dock, possibly with RCA left/right audio jacks as well (using the USB hub connection mentioned above). Perhaps even RCA inputs, again via the USB connection.
I'd buy it.
[ 01-16-2003: Message edited by: Kesh ]</p>
<strong>I love that old Duo commercial and the Cloudhopper video is great!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thanks, MacGregor. Small PowerBooks are obviously a big fascination of mine. My Cloudhopper one man balloon is my other consuming obsession. It's a shame the two hobbies compete for funding and my limited resources.
[quote]Originally posted by Kecksy:
<strong>Escher, your second Duo movie isn't working.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sorry about that, Kecksy. I must have been in such a hurry to post the two Duo TV ads a few days ago that I forgot to insert the second QuickTime file. I'm so used to instant gratification with <a href="http://www.barebones.com/products/bbedit/index.shtml"; target="_blank">BBEdit</a> and <a href="http://www.panic.com/transmit/"; target="_blank">Transmit</a> for my regular website that .Mac HomePage seems very slow. In any case, <a href="http://homepage.mac.com/escher/Menu4.html"; target="_blank">my homepage</a> is now fixed.
Escher
[ 01-16-2003: Message edited by: Escher ]</p>
<strong>Here's a possibility: 1) Integrated USB/Firewire hub - 2) Video Output port - 3) Multiple audio in/outs</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's clear that a Dock could add significant functionality even without any additional ports (e.g. a direct connection to the mobo) on the PowerBook. A USB/FW hub is a natural function. After all, we would like a whole series of peripherals to remain connected to our Dock while we travel with the 'Book. As for video out, I would really like the option of attaching an Apple ADC display. This would obviously be a lot easier if Apple incorporated a DVI connector in the 12" PowerBook, just like it does with the 15" and 17" PowerBooks. Finally, I applaud the idea of using USB to expand audio in/out functionality.
In summary, existing technology could be combined to make up a very powerful new Dock. Give me <a href="http://www.bookendzdocks.com/bookendz/ibook.htm"; target="_blank">BookEndz</a>, VGA-to-ADC, a <a href="http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?code=3122-T7UW"; target="_blank">USB hub</a> and <a href="http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/imic/index.html"; target="_blank">iMic</a> in one package! Throw in <a href="http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?Code=6201-EYTV"; target="_blank">EveTV</a> and I will buy.
PS: I wasn't able to find the VGA-to-ADC adapter referenced above on <a href="http://www.drbott.com/"; target="_blank">Dr. Bott's website</a>.
Escher
[ 01-16-2003: Message edited by: Escher ]</p>
Main reason? What are the reasons for a dock....
expandability? Okay, your laptop can now come with a big HD, tons of ram, and a Super Drive.
need more? that's why ya got Firewire, FW2, and USB.
Power? That's why we have longer battery life, shorter recharge times, and an AC adapter...
Network? Airport
Monitor hookup? Built in.
So all the old reasons that you'd use a docking satation have slowly faded so that you are now a minority group who 'loves' the idea of a dock. I don't think Apple would 'dirty' their laptops with non-mobile docks. It is just 'un-apple'. Maybe old school apple would have, but not neo-apple.
<strong>I maintain that docks are for boats. I don't see Apple ever putting out a dock again.
Main reason? What are the reasons for a dock....
expandability? Okay, your laptop can now come with a big HD, tons of ram, and a Super Drive.
need more? that's why ya got Firewire, FW2, and USB.
Power? That's why we have longer battery life, shorter recharge times, and an AC adapter...
Network? Airport
Monitor hookup? Built in.
So all the old reasons that you'd use a docking satation have slowly faded so that you are now a minority group who 'loves' the idea of a dock. I don't think Apple would 'dirty' their laptops with non-mobile docks. It is just 'un-apple'. Maybe old school apple would have, but not neo-apple.</strong><hr></blockquote>
So let me count that:
Whenever you use your powerbook at home or in your office you do the following procedure:
1. Plug-in your USB-mouse
2. Plug-in your firewire-HD
3. Plug-in your firewire videocamera and/or your digital still camera
4. Plug-in your network cable (Plug-in your Airport basestation)
5. Plug-in your AC-adapter
6. Plug-in your external monitor (and run the second-monitor hack)
And at the end of the session you do the same procedure the other way round.
Got the idea of a dock?
The MiniPB is great but would also be the perfect set-up for a Duo Dock.
<strong>Mac Gregor -- I don't understand your point about having an airport card in the base station. Why would that be good?</strong><hr></blockquote>
icruise: I guess "why not?" I don't see the advantage of buying a seperate Airport base station when I could have the dock Airport ready. You can make your PowerMac a base station, I think, so why not the dock. It's just more elegant and could hold a larger antennae.
I think of the docking station as more than a desktop. For example, the iBook really is a portable iMac. They have roughly the same capabililies (except for cpu at this time) and the same inabilithy to be upgraded. But the Powerbook isn't quite a portable PowerMac. It doesn't have multiple cpu's; the expandibility, or the upgrade-ability. Thus arises at least the basis for the need for a docking station.
Not Unlike Myself is a good example of someone who may not need a PowerMac-like desktop. Firewire periferals work great for what he describes. He is probably like 80% of all Mac users and is clearly where "The Year of the Laptop" is directed.
Yet I think if you extrapolate where the digital hub is going ... i.e. average Joe Prosumer is going to be making movies not just with iMovie, but maybe with Final Cut Express?! ... then you can see that this isn't just a matter of downloading a digital camera and emailing a few photos to Aunt Martha. There will need to be some fast large file access and management.
Okay, so maybe average Joe Prosumer won't be really using FC Express alot and Joe Consumer won't be using it until movies become as easy to make as surfing the web (which will be possible one day), there will always be a need for a fully capable desktop.
As Not Unlike Myself sez, this may not be an Apple device. I can see his points, but at least it is a great opportunity for a 3rd party vendor to work with Apple on a docking solution. And the technology is there, such that even with our lack of technical hardware expertise, we can probably scratch design something compelling.
Aside: If Apple is trying to push the market toward a more laptop-centered future with itself in the lead, it will need to not only make the best portables on the market (at all sizes and price points), but give those portables compelling capabilities. Thus Bluetooth in all whether you need it or not; FW and Airport Extreme readiness whether you need it or not...because at some point you probably will need it.
An even bigger aside: It is like when Apple put FW in every PowerMac before anyone really had the cameras and video equipment to use it. There those wierd looking ports sat, largely unused by people without digital FW cameras .... until ... the iPod ... and when the iPod finally came out, there were, just by chance, millions of people ready for it. To this day the iPod has no PC equivalent, because the Windoze makers didn't till the soil ahead of time.
Back to the topic: The laptops will continue to gain capability and become even more capable as desktop replacements, but with a cool docking station, they could become "work station" replacements...and at the cost total cost of one full-featured PowerMac.
Sorry if this is grandiose pap. Why do I start reading AI so late at night....?!?!?
I think part of the discussion has to do with the fact that the definition of the desktop is abit in flux in capability point of view. So rather than get stuck in the semantics of laptop and desktop, maybe it is best to think about what you need and where.
Assuming you need a portable, it is easy to decide:
a) "The speed, capabilities, keyboard and screen of my portable are good enough for my desktop needs." Bingo, go with just an iBook or PowerBook.
b) "The speed and capabilities of my portable are good enough for my desktop needs, but the keyboard and screen are not. Bingo, buy a full keyboard and mirror or dual monitor to a better screen for that iBook or PB.
c) "The speed and capabilities of my portable are not enough to meet my desktop needs." Now you have a choice ... to buy a desktop or our mythical docking station. That means you have alot of questions to answer. What are your needs, etc.? And then start making combinations and permutations of your multiple options. [Note, the docking stations here assume the extra monitor, etc.]
iBook and an iMac..................cheap and good
iBook and a PowerMac.............pricey and my choice two weeks ago
Powerbook and an iMac...........expensive and insane
Powerbook and a PowerMac......you have too much $ to worry about choice
iBook and docking station...........cheapest and okay
Powerbook and docking station.....moderately pricey and nice!!
and just to cross thread...
Subnotebook/tablet and PowerMac ....... expensive and nicer!!
Each person will have her or his own sweet spot in the above combinations. Obviously each PB and iMac have many ranges within the product line. But I think many people would find a Powerbook and docking station as their sweet spot. The only problem...would Apple make money on it? Would they allow a 3rd party to build a dock that would threaten PowerMac sales?
to bed and oh yeah, to dream...
edited for formating
[ 01-17-2003: Message edited by: MacGregor ]</p>
<strong>Assuming you need a portable, it is easy to decide:
a) "The speed, capabilities, keyboard and screen of my portable are good enough for my desktop needs." [...]
b) "The speed and capabilities of my portable are good enough for my desktop needs, but the keyboard and screen are not. [...]
c) "The speed and capabilities of my portable are not enough to meet my desktop needs." Now you have a choice ... to buy a desktop or our mythical docking station.</strong><hr></blockquote>
What a wonderfully smart analysis, MacGregor. The little gears in your head just won't stop spinning.
I think your analysis shows where our need-paths diverge. Your mythical docking station is in category (c). My dock, OTOH, has its ideal place in category (b). The Duo Dock of 1992 (can you believe it is 10 years old?) needed to add functionality because the PowerBook Duo of the time wasn't fully featured. Today's 12" PowerBook is fully featured. Thus I think a modern Dock should "only" add convenience in the form of automatic docking and (intelligent) port-replication, rather than add significant power in some complicated way (e.g. with a second processor or PCI slots).
My own situation is as follows. Right now, I'm stuck in category (a). My iBook/500 fulfills all of my immediate needs. My wife, OTOH, wants a real keyboard and mouse. That's why she keeps using the 5 year-old iMac. With the new 12" PowerBooks, I would like to move up to category (b). The AluBook (whether I end up getting Rev.A or waiting for Rev.B) will have all the power I need. That's why I will want to use it as a desktop replacement within category (b), with a Dock, external high-res monitor, keyboard and mouse.
The 12" PowerBook with Dock is my sweet spot. That combination is plenty powerful and ergonomic for my needs. Therefore I see no reason for a PowerBook + Dock combination to try to be as powerful as a desktop PowerMac.
Escher