PMG4 DP1.25 VS. PMG5 1.6... Which one?

zoranszorans
Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
I have looked at a few options so far for the video work I plan to do(FCP4 or FCE). Just curious what your choices would be in terms of performance for the following since they are both at the same price point.



PMG4

? DP 1.25GHz w/ 2MB L3 per proc.

? 512MB DDR333 SDRAM (PC2700) - 1 DIMM

? 80GB Ultra ATA - 7200rpm

? Apple Super Drive (DVD-R/CD-RW)

? ATI Radeon 9000 Pro

? 56K internal modem

? Apple Pro Keyboard

? Mac OS X [default]

Subtotal A$ 3,585.00



PMG5

? 1.6GHz PowerPC G5

? 256MB DDR333 SDRAM (PC2700) - 2x128

? 80GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm

? 4x SuperDrive (CD-RW/DVD-R)

? NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra

? 56K V.92 internal modem

? Apple Keyboard + Apple Mouse





Subtotal A$ 3,599.00



Ram differences aside I keep hearing that DP's are king but the bottle neck worries me. These are the current offerings although believe I can get the G4 with 2 Gigs of memory for the same price from someone. Otherwise I can bite the bullet to oblivion and get a new G5 DP2.0...
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 25
    markivmarkiv Posts: 180member
    My personal opinion would be go for PowerMac G5, you can upgrade the RAM yourself. The reasons being G5 is a newer chip, second the Dual G4 did not have the processor working independently, you can get nore info about that on Apple's website. The G5 is a newer chip, and the performance is quite mind blowing. PowerMac G5 can probably kick Dual 1.42's ass. The G5 would give around 5.4 GB/s bandwirdth (ideally speaking) and has better hard drive, and AGP 8x slot that would make graphics better. You could problay upgrade your graphics card on the G5 to Radeon 9600 pro should cost you not more than 80 Aus Dollars. Just my 2 cents.
  • Reply 2 of 25
    zoranszorans Posts: 187member
    Thanks for your feedback so far Markiv.

    I have just found a page on LowendMac that sort of does the comparison I just mentioned, anyone have any feelings either way to what their claims are?





    Blowout G4s or Forthcoming G5s, Which Wins the Value Comparison?



    EDIT.

    I did forget to re-iterate that my main object use will be to run FCP or FCE which I am led to believe are extremely MP-aware aps.
  • Reply 3 of 25
    markivmarkiv Posts: 180member
    FCP and FCE both are multi-processor aware apps. The performance of Dual G5 would be way superior to and Dual G4 as the Dual Processor in G5 work completely independent of each other. Dual G4's on the other hand have the the processors dependent on each other, in other word one prcessor waits on the other processor to give it instruction , in my personal opinion PowerMac G5 1.6 would be a better choice even for apps like FCP, Maya, Shake, FCE. If you really want to go Dual go for the Dual 2.0 check the tests results shown on Apple's webiste regarding the performance of G5's, check for the dtesting done on Photoshop etc, I think the PowerMac 1.6 beats the Dual Xeon too on the Photoshop testing. Photoshop is supposed to be dual processor aware too. IMHO, I would say that PowerMac g5 1.6 is a better buy than Dual 1.25, wand would last you a longer time than Dual 1.25. I hope this was helpful in some way.
  • Reply 4 of 25
    leonisleonis Posts: 3,427member
    In case if you are interested on doing 3D stuff in the future you better go for the G5





    G5 FPU is much more powerful (3X as fast) than G4 at the same clock rate.



    G4's FPU is super weak (3X as slow as athlon and P4 at the same clock speed) that's why Mac has been stomped by PCs in 3D stuff the last five years.



    I am pretty much positive that a 1.6GHz G5 is faster than the dual 1.25GHz G4 in the 3D stuff. Not just the prcoessor has better FPU, also the bandwidth and faster video system.
  • Reply 5 of 25
    zoranszorans Posts: 187member
    I'm curious Leonis, I am sort of clueless about certain things. Does NLE work like that in FCP rely on exactly the same sort of backbone as the 3D work you are mentioning? Cause I have no idea whatsoever... other than my wifes new little iBook, this will be my first Mac
  • Reply 6 of 25
    markivmarkiv Posts: 180member
    The PowerMac G5 would be more than satisfaoctory for your needs, plus the good point being that you can expand the RAM to 4 GB with the 1 GB modules and hopefully to 8 GB with the 2GB modules, not that you would require that much of memory, there is no harm in having the option to. You can check out the specification of PowerMac G5 on the developer site of Apple. The link is http://developer.apple.com/documenta...owerMacG5.pdf. I know the stuff might be a long read, but is darn useful. I hope that this helps you in some way.
  • Reply 7 of 25
    bartobarto Posts: 2,246member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ZoranS

    I have looked at a few options so far for the video work I plan to do(FCP4 or FCE). Just curious what your choices would be in terms of performance for the following since they are both at the same price point.



    Go with the G5.



    Not only is the actual CPU much, much, incredibly superfragilistically faster but the overall system is much better too.



    The FSB bottleneck is gone and it has very cool stuff like 5.1 optical audio and front USB & FireWire. For FCP, the faster serial ATA hard drives will help you in the G5.



    As you've probably (unfortunatly) figured out by now, buying after-market RAM is a good idea. Buy the computer, set it up, then install more (and cheaper) RAM.



    Barto
  • Reply 8 of 25
    ryaxnbryaxnb Posts: 583member
    I think one reason why Low End Mac (which I like quite a bit, by the way) thinks the G4 is the better deal is normally it costs $400 less then the G5. But your custom-config situation eliminates this advantage. I think the G4 is a good choice, though.
  • Reply 9 of 25
    leonisleonis Posts: 3,427member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ZoranS

    I'm curious Leonis, I am sort of clueless about certain things. Does NLE work like that in FCP rely on exactly the same sort of backbone as the 3D work you are mentioning? Cause I have no idea whatsoever... other than my wifes new little iBook, this will be my first Mac







    FCP 4.0 (also After Effects 6) right now is using OpenGL to do the video redraw. So with a faster system bus and AGP things on the G5 things should be peppier than the "ancient" G4.





    All in all. Get the G5. G4 doesn't have the bandwidth for serious video.





    In my case. I have the Dual GHz SlowSilver?. My only option is the Dual 2GHz. But I have no money to buy it
  • Reply 10 of 25
    zoranszorans Posts: 187member
    <sigh>



    Looks like i'll have to cut my teeth and jump headfirst into a G5 DP2.0. I'm guessing it will outlive a SP 1.6 model by at least 1-2 years. I'll just have to save up my pretty pennies for the other bits i was after. Anyone know of any Price matching web sites that can deal with Australia as a seperate option??? I'm getting sick to death of all this RRP BS? I'm a friggen Sales manager in Retail, products were never meant to be sold for RRP! hehe



    Cheers
  • Reply 11 of 25
    zoranszorans Posts: 187member
    Well i'll be, I've discovered some bargains in Australia.



    www.power.com.au had

    iMac 17" 1Ghz/256Mb/80Gb/Superdrive/BRAND NEW $2990 incl GST

    PMG4 Dual 867Mhz/256/60/Combo/REFURB $1990 incl GST

    PBG4 17" 1Ghz/512/60/Superdrive/Airport Card/Bluetooth/ REFURB $4990



    While Curtin Computer Shop has G5 DP2 for $5035 which is ohh so close to ED Pricing... BUT ...since it does not state that, they would have to supply the computer at that price. That was GST inclusive.
  • Reply 12 of 25
    power applepower apple Posts: 335member
    The LowEndMac comparison is flawed!



    A Dual 1.25 GHz G4 is NOT comparable to a 2.25 GHz Single G4! (80%) , or at least only in very few "perfect" situations. For general use the advantage when running Mac OS X on dual processors (with the old G4 architecture at least) is more around 50-70%.



    I say go for the G5
  • Reply 13 of 25
    bartobarto Posts: 2,246member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ZoranS

    products were never meant to be sold for RRP!



    Try telling that to Apple resellers. There is simply no margin to cut anymore.



    The only "bargins" you get now are old stock which have to be sold, sometimes at a loss.



    Barto
  • Reply 14 of 25
    leonisleonis Posts: 3,427member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Barto

    Try telling that to Apple resellers. There is simply no margin to cut anymore.



    The only "bargins" you get now are old stock which have to be sold, sometimes at a loss.



    Barto



    You are right. My friend who works in the Apple reseller always sells me Apple stuff around 10% off the retail price. But she tells me they only get 10-30 bucks (CDN) of profit at that price.



    Don't forget that the reseller has to feed their employees



    My friend does this to me is because their main business is the pre-press stuff. Selling machine is just a "side"
  • Reply 15 of 25
    bartobarto Posts: 2,246member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Leonis

    Don't forget that the reseller has to feed their employees



    Hmmm... try asserting that to my co-workers!



    We make more money off a RRP Photoshop (~$1500) sale than a Dual 2.0GHz G5 plus 23" Cinema display (~$9000) sale.



    Barto
  • Reply 16 of 25
    zoranszorans Posts: 187member
    Now that I have sucked some of you into this topic I have another question gnawing at me that is still left ananswered.



    Does the Video Card have ANYTHING useful to contribute to a FCP/FCE Rig???? Will I see improvements on things like converting/rendering/??? DV and other formats or is that all processor/memory/hard-drive related ?
  • Reply 17 of 25
    markivmarkiv Posts: 180member
    Faster graphics card would definately help in the graphics intense applications, to what extent I cannot say. Surely, it would be better if you had a Radeon 9600 pro or Radeon 9800 pro. If you are short of cash like I am, go for Radeon 9600 pro. Just my 2 cents.
  • Reply 18 of 25
    leonisleonis Posts: 3,427member
    Graphic card only helps on screen redraw. Never helps rendering
  • Reply 19 of 25
    bartobarto Posts: 2,246member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Leonis

    Graphic card only helps on screen redraw. Never helps rendering



    Ahem, no.



    Graphics cards accelerate 2D and 3D operations. QuickTime (which pretty much all of Apple's apps, including FCP and FCE, are based on) uses the graphics card to accelerate encoding and decoding of graphics.



    The window server's (Quartz Extreme) compositing of graphics uses the graphics card with GeForce and Radeon cards.



    And all 3D apps in Mac OS X use the graphics card to render objects in OpenGL.



    Barto
  • Reply 20 of 25
    ryukyuryukyu Posts: 450member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Barto



    And all 3D apps in Mac OS X use the graphics card to render objects in OpenGL.



    Barto



    Which is a screen rendering as opposed to rendering to a file.

    I believe that is the point that Leonis was trying to make.
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