Recommend Apple : Lose your job ?

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
Like pen pushers of old, most companies have IT departments that once in place are left to look after all computer related issues.



In most big companies that means the IT boys ( & girls ) are usually given a free ride..Bosses tend to treat them like neccessary geeks..



So when it comes to new purchases in the computer area most companies just cave in to whatever the IT boys suggest..because it's their field specialty.



The consequence being that most IT departments are too big, lazy and uninterested in any computer or software system that could do them out of a job.



Why would any IT guy recommend Apple & servers OS-X to their company knowing that Apple stuff is so reliable that they'd be risking a pink slip..



Maybe no one else sees this as an issue, but time and again I've heard of companies IT staff bagging Apple to their bosses, secretly fearing it might be taken on, yet also knowing how bloody good the Apple stuff really is for business efficiency & productivity.



The below article seems to think so...



http://www.slashdot.org/articles/03/...id=185&tid=187

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 20
    placeboplacebo Posts: 5,767member
    Yeah, I guess that IT proffessionals are kind of unnecessary when you have a system that doesn't need constant babying. It's kind of like the oil execs' relation to hybrid cars.
  • Reply 2 of 20
    cubedudecubedude Posts: 1,556member
    Strange, I can't seem to load the above article. \
  • Reply 3 of 20
    That is a valid point for some businesses, smaller ones, but the really big businesses are going to have IT guys no matter what, even if they switched to an apple/os X server that was proven to be 90% impervious to break-downs, virii, crashing...etc. they would still hire an IT guy, or two, to look after the thing. My brother is an IT guy, he's like level 2 tech, meaning he's the guy that gives the final word "sorry, computers fragged, get a new one" he's level 2 tech, for all the macs at his workplace AND he has a partner, needless to say he has a lot of down time, but it's better for the company that he is there not doing anything all the time, than if he is not, and their stuff buggers itself.
  • Reply 4 of 20
    matsumatsu Posts: 6,558member
    Macs would hardly put IT out of work. Enough problems would emerge to keep **most** of IT busy with a mac environ the same way they're busy with NT. Problems crop up when you go from tens of users to 100's and thousands.



    The real problem is that they sell what they know so that they don't have to train themselves for something different. Easier on them, lazier too, but easier.
  • Reply 5 of 20
    That's another thing entirely, even if the mac set-up was 100% safe when it came to anything that servers might normally be aflicted. A user can still screw up, and the IT guy has to worry about it. big businesses hire IT guys to take care of the employees computers so that the employees don't have to.
  • Reply 6 of 20
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    We have several new Linux systems here. From blade servers for high end computing to dual proc' user systems for high end data analysis. They showed up months and months ago and haven't been set up yet. Knowing that our IS people are over worked we payed nice and said, "when we'd love to start using it...". Here we are. Nothing's ready. Mostly because they don't know Linux. All we need is network, some user accounts and power.



    Meanwhile the windows image for the new machines is causing huge productivity problems, "Oh you need to print to the color printer right outside your door? Just use the add printer icon." Me, "There is no add printer icon." Them, "Oh yea we removed that to keep people from adding printers."



    Meanwhile I just use my powerbook to print to the color printer.
  • Reply 7 of 20
    longhornlonghorn Posts: 147member
    I know I've gotten in trouble for recommending Macs at my job. Some sort of under the table deal with Dell was in place. If we buy from other hardware providers, they get pissed. But nothing official.
  • Reply 8 of 20
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,464member
    That article is 100% right on. As a teacher at an elementary school I have watched multiple sites where the Macs worked so well and for so long that they literally became truly obsolete. (Color, who needs color or what exactly is a PowerPC that this software needs?)



    Often the labs were maintained by a teacher or perhaps two. In come the PC solutions and in come the problems. Whole staff inservices, full time tech teacher/support. Then you also have district-wide support people as well.



    None of them can seem to keep the stuff running.



    What is especially sad is it builds such a negative attitude behind the technology that folks are less willing to approve the funds for the future.



    Full employment for them, lost productivity and learning for us.



    Nick
  • Reply 9 of 20
    pscatespscates Posts: 5,847member
    I'll never work a job - graphics or otherwise - that isn't Mac-based.



    I quit a job once because - even though I was hired as a graphics guy, doing the usual Quark, Photoshop, Illustrator stuff on a nice beige G3, I was actually doing mostly prepping/fixing outside customers Word and Publish files on a PC in the corner. I had to take stuff that was, apparently, produced by a blindfolded monkey with two left hands and make it into something "usable".



    That lasted about 9 days.







    Idiot boss was like "so that's it? Just like that, you're outta here?"



    Me: "Yeah, 'that's it'. You lied to me...this is NOT why I took the job and it's NOT how you sold it to me. You should hire a PC-based person to screw around with these files. This isn't the position you described in the ad OR the interview. I don't do Windows."







    He looked at me like "you little snot...".



    But I don't think I touched Photoshop or QuarkXPress on my Mac ONCE in those 9 days.



  • Reply 10 of 20
    A lot of it has to do with the comfort level people have with Windows. IT people have used Windows a lot, and even though they hate it, it's still what they're used to.



    People don't like change, and they come up with reasons for resisting it. That /. article is funny, because if you read the original Cringley article, the bit about macs is a brief tangent, and he doesn't directly equate recommending macs to one losing their job.



    I think the honest truth is that there really isn't any real conspiracy. Just that suggesting change, especially in a corporate environment, can be a rather unpopular thing. So I suppose following that logic, you can equate it to "Recommend a mac, lose your job"... however, that carries over to a lot of things. Recommend any kind of change and you become frowned upon.



    Now, if the company brought in outside consultants that suggested change, they would probably be more open to it. It's just kind of the way things work. But the fact of the matter is that IT people don't know macs well. They're used to Windows, and while it may piss them off, they get by. IT people don't like creating work, but learning a new operating system and hardware and integrating that... well, that's a lot more work. Same with your linux sysadmin. A lot of these people don't know that OS X is BSD based, but they're starting to catch on. But still, they're used to linux, they're good at what they do, and change causes them a steep learning curve.



    That's all that's happening here. No conspiracies at all, and it isn't so much that people hate Apple enough to want to fire you for mentioning the company's name.
  • Reply 11 of 20
    ariari Posts: 126member
    Quote:

    I know I've gotten in trouble for recommending Macs at my job. Some sort of under the table deal with Dell was in place. If we buy from other hardware providers, they get pissed. But nothing official.



    Wherever you work has an insanely stupid business plan in regards to technology. Why should your company care if they upset Dell? They should be concerned about buying what makes the most business sense (Macintosh and otherwise) and knowing Dell's quality and reliability, it is not them.
  • Reply 12 of 20
    aquafireaquafire Posts: 2,758member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by LoCash

    A lot of it has to do with the comfort level people have with Windows. IT people have used Windows a lot, and even though they hate it, it's still what they're used to.





    Yeah, like sleeping on a bed of nails..you eventually get used to it..But it's still a no brainer..



    And that is the toughest hurdle Apple will have to face in trying to sell its computers in general computer stores and the like.



    Most sales people are comfortable with Windows. That's what they know. They're ignorance, prejudice (even hatred ) of Apple means that Apples' computers will again be shoved in the back room..with the screen saver on.



    Very few sales staff are trained in both O/S systems..so Apple inevitably loses out....



    Remember those dying words last time Apple ventured out to sales room across America..



    Salesman to customer..



    " Oh those are Apple macs..they're too hard to use...."



    " No one has them these days "



    " They're good for playing games..... but they're not real computers "
  • Reply 13 of 20
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Aquafire

    Yeah, like sleeping on a bed of nails..you eventually get used to it..



    Unfortunately your metaphor isn't fair. Windows isn't like a bed of nails. I mean, it works. I don't think you give Windows enough credit.



    A more accurate metaphor would be... Windows is that mattress that has that lump in one spot, but you learn to avoid it. Better yet, Windows is like your pillow; you have to turn it over every so often to rest your head on a 'cool' side.



    See, with those metaphors, the object is still functional, even though it does cause some problems. But you learn how to deal with it. One of my cousin's had this toilet in one of his apartments that was broken. Well, he had a workaround for using it... you have to jiggle the handle just right. All he had to do was call his landlord to fix it, but he never did. The man is brilliant too, holds over five degrees, and is a successful lawyer.



    That's like these IT pros. A lot of them are really quite smart. They're just used to Windows. And Windows works enough to not be a problem, and they know how to fix it. Give them a brand new operating system with brand new hardware... they have to learn it, get used to it, etceteras. It creates a lot more work initially, and it frightens people.
  • Reply 14 of 20
    aquafireaquafire Posts: 2,758member
    Point taken.



    It's all relative..( I use windows on public computers..& strangely, I have been asked time and again to unfreeze the public access ( Windows 2000 ) computers..or get the printers working...etc etc...



    You remind me of the analogy Einstein once used to explain time & relativity..



    " Put your hand on a stove and it seems like an hour.

    Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a minute......That's relativity "



    It goes well to illustrate my feelings about the two platforms..

  • Reply 15 of 20
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,464member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by LoCash

    Unfortunately your metaphor isn't fair. Windows isn't like a bed of nails. I mean, it works. I don't think you give Windows enough credit.



    A more accurate metaphor would be... Windows is that mattress that has that lump in one spot, but you learn to avoid it. Better yet, Windows is like your pillow; you have to turn it over every so often to rest your head on a 'cool' side.



    See, with those metaphors, the object is still functional, even though it does cause some problems. But you learn how to deal with it. One of my cousin's had this toilet in one of his apartments that was broken. Well, he had a workaround for using it... you have to jiggle the handle just right. All he had to do was call his landlord to fix it, but he never did. The man is brilliant too, holds over five degrees, and is a successful lawyer.



    That's like these IT pros. A lot of them are really quite smart. They're just used to Windows. And Windows works enough to not be a problem, and they know how to fix it. Give them a brand new operating system with brand new hardware... they have to learn it, get used to it, etceteras. It creates a lot more work initially, and it frightens people.




    I'm sorry but I am good enough with computers to have been offered jobs several times doing field tech support and things of that nature. Likewise I have built multiple PC's and still own two, both running XP.



    At it's best Windows can be okay. By that I mean locked down, running only a few apps and completely left alone. Otherwise (yes even with XP) it is like a ticking time bomb just waiting to eXPlode into some umproductive funkiness right when your deadline is due.



    I ended up having to reinstall XP because I tried several video editing programs out on it and one of them cluster-fu*ked the video codec. (Which is apparently Microsoft's and it sucks a$$ turning all your blacks slightly green.)



    Rollbacks, didn't help, driver uninstallations related to the firewire card didn't help. Registry edits attempting to find a remove entries for all the programs didn't help. Reinstalling was the solution. (Again on XP)



    I have witnessed this over and over, even with the most knowledgeable, certified people I know, it becomes, "Hey let's just blast it and throw a new image on there."



    Windows machines in business have become really expensive dumb terminals. That is why all the nonsense with .net and everything essentually involves keeping all your business (profile, documents, etc.) on the server. So they can blast and reformat your machine whenever the fit hits the shan.



    Nick
  • Reply 16 of 20
    aquafireaquafire Posts: 2,758member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by trumptman



    Windows machines in business have become really expensive dumb terminals. That is why all the nonsense with .net and everything essentually involves keeping all your business (profile, documents, etc.) on the server. So they can blast and reformat your machine whenever the fit hits the shan.Nick




    Do you remember the Millenium doomsday 2000 advice given by serious It doomsdayers & the billions spent by business goofballs thinking that judgement day had arrived..

    I think those It boys are living on their own private islands in the Bahamas and linking to the outside world with OS-X...
  • Reply 17 of 20
    I know several places,who have bought Xserves. They bought Xserves, because it isn't Intel/AMD hardware. They use only non intel/AMD hardware. They are running Linux, but not Mac OS X. They don't want learn/install new OS.
  • Reply 18 of 20
    In our case we were supposed to get heavy discounts from Dell in exchange for going exclusively with Dell. Stupid.
  • Reply 19 of 20
    big macbig mac Posts: 480member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Stratosfear

    I know several places,who have bought Xserves. They bought Xserves, because it isn't Intel/AMD hardware. They use only non intel/AMD hardware. They are running Linux, but not Mac OS X. They don't want learn/install new OS.



    That's an especially good sign since you're in Finland, Stratosfear, and Xserves haven't been out that long, relatively speaking.



    Unless and until Apple makes more aggressive moves, enterprise will remain hostile to Apple. Enterprise maybe the hardest sell simply because of the stigma of the Apple brand. Perhaps a limited OS X license granted to IBM would help in that regard. And throwing ultra cheap machines on IT would be a good thing as well. Apple has been bold enough to open 63 retail stores, but it's time they strike out on other fronts, too. Throw machines at enterprise and education. The current situation isn't winning Apple much. Get the skeptics hooked on OS X and then start looking for the revenue -- for it will definitely come. Cutting taxes is the only fiscal measure that promotes growth, and likewise cutting prices for a short period would promote strong growth in traditionally anti-Apple markets. Apple needs to Think Different(ly), don'tcha think?
  • Reply 20 of 20
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Big Mac

    Unless and until Apple makes more aggressive moves, enterprise will remain hostile to Apple. Enterprise maybe the hardest sell simply because of the stigma of the Apple brand.





    It's getting to be where that stigma is really just lack of knowledge of the brand. As I said before, you would be surprised how many sysadmins, and knowledgeable ones at that, will say in regards to putting a Mac on their network, "Well, I remember AppleTalk used to not scale/integrate well in TCP/IP networks. Have they fixed any of that?" Completely oblivious to the fact that it is putting a BSD box on your network.



    The road to enterprise adoption is getting the kit in the hands of the sysadmins. This has already begun happening. A lot of linux folks have actually adopted OS X, and they really like. They tell/show a friend, and on it goes. It's not going to happen overnight, it's going to be a slow road. The gears are in motion though...





    Quote:

    Perhaps a limited OS X license granted to IBM would help in that regard. And throwing ultra cheap machines on IT would be a good thing as well.



    Unfortunately, if you open that can of worms, closing it again makes you look like the devil incarnate. There were rumors here a year ago of a license to OS X stating you could install it on as many boxes as you owned. I think that would be a good move. In regards to OS X Server, it already ships with an unlimited client license. I think that in and of itself is a GoodThing?.







    Quote:

    Apple has been bold enough to open 63 retail stores, but it's time they strike out on other fronts, too. Throw machines at enterprise and education. The current situation isn't winning Apple much.



    Well, Apple was founded with the idea that we can make a computer that anybody can use. That's the consumer market for you, and business customers came into the picture because they would account for a lot of sales. Now we're at the point where a company can survive off of consumer sales alone [in regards to computers], and seeing as how Apple didn't quite make inroads into the business world way back when, the consumer arena is where they stand to make the largest profit margins. Let's not forget that Apple is still a corporation, and like any corporation, the number one goal is profit.



    So Apple has been spending a long time attempting to get them a foothold in the consumer market again. This is great, and now that they are a bit more anchored, they are free to begin branching out again. It looks like Apple is going to be revising the goals of its Market Centers of old in new Apple stores to attempt to go after more business and education customers this coming year. So as I said, Apple needed to anchor themselves somewhere, and they have. Now it is time to move forward again.



    So the current situation is winning Apple a hell of a lot. It's winning them a profit. You can't just start throwing machines at education and enterprise customers. Other companies will counter by doing the same thing, and they can afford to more than Apple can. Apple knows what they're doing, they've been taking steps to re-enter the markets you mention seriously... but they're taking their time and doing it right by rebuilding the company from its roots, which is building consumer kit.





    Quote:

    Get the skeptics hooked on OS X and then start looking for the revenue -- for it will definitely come. Cutting taxes is the only fiscal measure that promotes growth, and likewise cutting prices for a short period would promote strong growth in traditionally anti-Apple markets. Apple needs to Think Different(ly), don'tcha think?



    They have been getting skeptics hooked on OS X. The biggest move Apple made in doing so was by shipping OS X, based on BSD. People hear about this, then they try it, and they tend to like it. It's been happening. Second, if your business logic includes "looking for the profit" only AFTER you make a decision, it is flawed. (Insert "You should go work for John Sculley joke here) You don't want to do something unless you know you can make the money. The dot com days are over, on spec isn't good enough anymore. Apple is carefully evaluating its weak markets in an attempt to regain ground. They're taking their time because their anchor in the consumer market grants this to them. In turn, Apple will do it right.



    Cutting prices isn't enough. If Apple lowered all the prices on its kit tomorrow, by hundreds of dollars, it wouldn't spark the kind of growth you envision. See, the thing is to make the brand more acceptable in the eyes of the people we want to use it. If you look at it this way, Apple has gone to great lengths to re-establish itself in the consumer market. Lots of consumers love Apple, even if they don't own one yet. So many people see Apple as "cool" again. That's a large chunk of people, that have jobs mind you, that don't see Apple in a negative light. Now, when you start going after your enterprise and educational customers... those same consumers work in those arenas. They're already comfortable with Apple, they just need to see it make sense for their business.



    Couple with that the fact that a lot of sysadmins are slowly warming up to Apple, and you're going to have a lot more people saying, "Yeah, you know, I really think a mac would fit in well with our business." Some of those people will end up doing it, others will say, "Well Apple, we'd love to, but you can tell me how much money on support we will save all you like, but I have to get approval from the boss, and he won't do it unless you can sell us machines at this price."



    Only then do you lower the prices on your hardware even more, but you do it by making deals with your corporate and education customers, not by lowering the prices for everyone. This is all in the works....
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